Changing the education system (inspired by standardized tests thread)

[wvrevy]

We need to completely change the way we educate our children in this country. The mandatory standardized testing of NCLB is a start, but it also creates more problems. Also, it only measures in certain subjects, while others are ignored (which results in "teaching to the tests", among other problems). I was kind of hasty on that other thread, and stated that if a child can't do third grade math, they have no business being promoted to 4th grade. While I believe that to be true, it doesn't go far enough, as it's possible that the child could read on a 4th grade level, just not do the math.

As such, I have a couple ideas that I wanted to bounce off of you nice folks

1 - Test at the beginning, test at the end. I believe the cause of the "teaching to the test" trend is that teachers are measured by what their students know at the end of their classes. Rather than just testing whether the teacher has gotten all the students to a certain level - which, I hate to inform the Bushies, does result in kids getting left behind - you could test the kids on the subject matter as they entered the class, then test them again as they prepared to exit. In that way, you could easily measure the progress that the kids made, and judge the teachers by that, rather than by some arbitrary "acceptable" score.

2 - It's time that all education was treated in the same manner. In college, there aren't any real "grades". Oh, sure, you have "standing" as a freshman, sophomore, etc. But that's merely a term. It doesn't really mean anything. The problem with the "grade" system is that a child could easily be reading on a 5th grade level while limited to a 3rd grade level on math. Since it's currently impossible for the kid to be in both 3rd and 5th grades, you have to compromise, which can lead to either limiting a kid's potential or, if advanced too quickly, leaving them way behind. If we just got rid of the "grade" system and allowed kids to progress at their own pace on a subject by subject basis, it would solve a lot of problems for both the gifted kids and those that need the extra help.

The first idea is something that could be implemented right away, while the second is something that it would take some time to accomplish. But, in my opinion, both of these are steps that need to be taken if we're going to modernize our education system in this country.

So...what do you think? I know there are a lot of teachers that post on this board, and I'm interested in what they believe it would take to "fix" the educational problem in this nation.

 

[wvrevy]

Anybody?

 

[Bayshore Bandit]

I'll jump in WV.....being a 4th grade teacher, I have no problem with #1, I'd
welcome an "entrance" exam and "exit" exam covering the content standards
I'm required to teach. I have no problem being judged by results.........BUT..
education will not truly be reformed until politicians, teachers, parents, and
the students are held EQUALLY accountable.

 

[Cindy B]

Funny you should post this, I did a presentation last week regarding high stakes standardized testing for my education class.

I found an article in Educational Digest that proposed some pretty radical changes to the current testing system (March 2005 if you are interested)

1) If a district makes AYP standards for three years in a row, this district could be recommended for a every three years testing. The author supported that it would cost lest to administer test, and testing focus could go on to districts/schools that did not make AYP for the current/past year.

2) Districts can make thier own AYP standards, which are always higher than state/national average. For example, my own school district all students are expected to make 100% on all tests sections (NJPASS NJASK GEPA HSPA) by 2014. Our current testing schema in this district in some ways has a predetermined amount that each student is expected to acheive. I think the state average is 74%, and our district average is 79% I believe. Of course, this expected student average does not take into account certain subgroups such as IEP, minority and ESL students.

These recommendations do have some positive and negative aspects.

I do like your #1 suggestion. Some higher performing districts in the highest DFG named DFG J (District Factor group which is a social economic group factor, the higher the letter, the more money the district has) In our local district, J is the highest. This district did administer the high stakes test earlier in the year.

 

[ladycollector]

This will probably never happen, but I think it would be great to have seperate classes for children like what you see in high school / jr high.

Level 1 English, Level 2 Math, Level 4 Reading, etc.

That creates potential problems in a public school environment, I realize that. But, this is the way homeschoolers do it and is part of the reason why they are so successful. But you know, in a perfect world...

 

[barkley]

some schools support these ideas. my kids go to one.

my kids go to a small christian (sda) school (grades k-8th). my son is currently a grade 2/3. the reason being is we and his teacher felt that while he was proficient/had mastered alot of the 2nd grade skills/curriculum, he need reinforcement in others. so we opted to have him stay in his current classroom (k-2) and begin the 2nd grade again. the subjects he was strong in he whipped through before the end of the 1st term and he was permitted to begin the 3rd grade curriculum in. he will likely finish up this school year at 4th grade level in some courses and a STRONG 3rd grade level in others.

dd is in the grade 3-8th classroom. they are assigned to an age appropriate "grade" but are permitted to move ahead in curriculum if they show the ability and desire (and are always encouraged to take an assignment that has been given to 3-8th and work/explore it at the expectations of a higher "grade level").

we are required by law to do a national test once per year to see how the children compare state wise and nationaly with children in their "grade", but it is purposly done at the BEGINING of the school year (usualy week 3 or 4) so that we can use it to guage where they are academicly at the begining and make learning plans accordingly (if they show a weakness in a particular area at the begining of the year we can focus on it and address how to develop the skill set needed).

although the kids in the school generaly "comp" out a grade to a few grades higher than their state/national peers this is in no way an "elite academic" school. in fact we have a few students who have significant learning disabilities-but their parents embrace and support a program that will allow their child to move forward in subjects they HAVE mastered, while reinforcing the subjects they need to continue to review.

i know public schools are a whole different "ball game", but i think some time should be spent in looking at these types of programs and seeing how they might fit into a public school curriculum. as an aside-when i was a kid our public school decided to try a grade 4/5 class and i was in it-although the parents and educators loved it, the kids did well in it- measurable performance went up for participants, the teacher's union decided it was'nt comfortable haveing one teacher cover 2 curriculums. so i think it will take getting EVERYONE on board before any significant changes happen in public education.

 

[MrsKreamer]

I agree with you WVrevy! You made some awesome points.

I went to private school, K-12. (Before anyone makes any assumptions, my mom worked 2-3 jobs the entire time and my extended family usually paid for uniforms, so by no means do I come from a upper-class, or even upper-middle-class home) Anywho, starting in grade school they did suggestion #2. I was always a level ahead in math and usually on par with everything else. They never made a big fuss about it, just how they separated the classes from the very beginning. I didn't even know I was ahead in Math until the 7th grade. My class was really small, and it just sort of dawned on me. There was another math class ahead of mine and 2 below. There were also separate Literature classes as well, I love to read but do not write as well so I wasn't in those . This was a very small school, yet they still made it work. By the time I got to high school, where they also do this, it made life simpler. We had 3 levels of classes when it came to Math and English, and 2 levels for foriegn languages, art, and music. They even had electives where if you excelled you could do extra, tougher assignments to earn honors credit. If at any point you found the level too hard(if in honors or AP, you were allowed(at no penalty) to move down a level.

I saw a special on 20/20 a few weeks back that I thought was very interesting. The reporter brought up the idea of treating schools more like businesses, if your school is failing then it should be shut down. I thought it was an interseting concept...

 

[minkydog]

One of the reasons we homeschooled our kids was so they could get the education you described. There was no teaching to the test. No assemblies telling them to "just say no"; no pep rallies where the bad boys are smoking weed under the bleachers. No time wasted on lining up, sitting, standing. Mastery was the whole ballgame. We didn't move forward in a subject until the material was understood, if it took 6wks! It was not uncommon for my kids to be working on different grade levels in their work in a single year(4th grade math & 5th grade reading.) Now my DD12 is in 7th grade in public school and I'm not so impressed. I don't think they push her hard enough and there is so much wasted time. But she passes all their little tests.

As well as it worked for us(DS19 graduated from homeschool last summer) I'm not sure how this type of program would play out in a large-group situation. It would seem to me a bit chaotic, but maybe someone can enlighten me.

 

[barkley]

i think for public schools (i'm thinking elementary k-6) one problem you might run into is teacher credentialing. most states (and calfornia definatly) offer 2 basic credentials-single subject and multi-subject. a multiple subject credentialed teacher can't teach a single subject unless all subjects are taught in their classroom. so unless it was changed to single subject creditialing only- in an elementary setting the teachers would have to teach all subjects/everyday and could not specialize in one area (like jr/sr high teachers) so the kids would have to constantly rotate and pretty much all the classrooms would have to operate on the exact same schedual. if you stuck with the multiple subject credentials maybe a kid could have a homeroom where they went for some subjects and then go to another classroom for their other subjects but it could be kind of difficult for (1) the kids to handle this kind of constant change at an early age (i'm thinking the k-3rd here)and (2) the teachers to co-ordinate doing their "homeroom" duties in addition to a new group of kids for every subject taught at level vs. grade.

the advantage jr/sr high teachers with a single subject credential have for this type of learning is they can focus on one or a couple of subjects (depending on their subject credentialing) and focus on that. we had homeroom teachers in jr and sr high, but they only taught 2 subjects and did'nt have to focus on anything else.

private schools are able to get around this because they don't have to adhere to any minimum education or credentialing standards for their teachers (though many do have individual standards established by their school or a religious entity that oversees it).

i have a cousin who opted to do a hybrid education for her daughter. the girl got bored in school (very bright, very motivated) so mom homeschooled most subjects with her. some subjects she sent her to the local public highschool for (music, honors classes that would result in college credit in math and some other subject). i also know of some private school kids around here that opt out of electives during highschool and get approval to take community college courses (distance learning via the internet) during those hours.

 

[The Boogeyman]

Man, none of this is going to happen. We are too set in our ways. The teacher's unions will fight it, the Republicans will fight it, the Democrats will fight it. In the end something like this may be somehow possible, but it would probably take over 50 years to implement with our overysized and bloated government full of red tape, corruption, and division. It wouldn't even make sense at all by the time it took effect.