Changes to the dining plan - a big conspiracy theory

[PatriciaH]

Does anyone remember the old Food and Fun Plan?

I LOVED the Food and Fun plan (the original one not the 1997/1998 versions.) I did the plan in 1993, 1994 and 1996. In 1993 it was breakfast and dinner (table service or counter service) every day plus all recreation. In 1994 and 1996 it was a choice of breakfast OR lunch and dinner (TS or CS) each day plus the recreation. It cost about $35 per adult per night. It included drink, appetizer, entree, dessert, tax and tip. The recreation included bikes, tennis, fishing excursions, all watercraft (even Breathless fireworks tours!), horesback riding, etc. I miss that plan

 

[HayGan]

OK, first of all, how dare you accuse me of wearing a fanny pack! Any good Fashionista know that a fanny pack is so 1990's

Seriously, Disney is (fairly) well run company. Just like any other company the test things out to see how they will work. The dining plan was a huge success for the company but not so good for the servers. Therefore, it was a big sticking point in the recent contract negotiations. Disney's hand was forced on the the whole gratuity thing! As for servrs getting stiffed, they won't likely be stiffed there more than they would other tourist destination. OK, so one time someone heard someone saying that if they servers don't recieve a tip in England they should recieve on in the Rose and Crown. C'mon people, do you think that the average American tourist knows about tipping poliicies in Europe? You are giving the average American far to much credit towards their knowledge of global etiquette. It is not a rampant attitude amongst Americans to stiff servers. Sure some people are less generous than others and you will occasionally have those people that will stiff a server. The non-inculsion of the gratuity is going to be a big plus for the servers as opposed to a negative. So the score is Disney = +, Servers = + and Disney DDP customers = -

As for the eliminatin of the appetizer, I think it stinks. I would have liked to see the choice between an appetizer or dessert but once again this was a financial decision. Think about what a appetizer consists of versus a dessert. Appetizers can be expensive items like meats and seafood whicle most desserts are a bunch of flour, sugar and butter. A dessert is typically much cheaper to make than a dessert. Disney = +, Disney servers = neutral (less food to bring out but less to get tipped on) and DDP customers = -

As for the whole wasting food thing, if you think food is wasted in Disney then you have obviously never been to one of the hundreds of buffets in Las Vegas. More food is wasted there than anywhere else in the World! If people felt the need to order everything that came with the plan, fine. It is what they paid for and deserved. It wasn't they way we typically ate but if that's what they wanted then so be it. Food is a renewable resource so what's all the stink really about? Once again Disney = +, DDP customers = -

Final tally:
Disney Servers = + (changes will likely result in higher tips)
DDP customers = --- (less food and more overall $$ OOP but slighlty less weight on the hips to bring home)
Disney = +++ (not responsible for tips is a big +, have to pay for less food is another big + and being able to change DDP customers virtually the same price is the biggest + of all!!!)


The plan worked perfectly for us before because my DH is a price shopper not a quality shopper. Having the DDP meant that he could just look at the descriptions and choose his meal. Price didn't have to be a factor. It may not be the way you or I choose a meal but it is the way he does. With the way the plan was set up we didn't have to worry abut any extra spending when we were in WDW. Our bill at checkout was typically less than $200. Now with having to pay for gratuities we are looking at an extra $200+ for a savings of less than $30. Easy enough to see why it isn't as attractive.

And if they offer it for free, will we go? That's a complete unknown. If they were offering it when I was planning on going, I certainly wouldn't turn it down. Will they offer it again in the future, probably but who really knows? It has been a successful promo for them in the past and we all know that they need some sort of promo to get people there during the heat and hurricanes. If it isn't free, you know for sure that it will be something else.

I'm sure there will be more changes to the plan in the future. So sit back and relax people! It is only Disney after all!!!

 

[HayGan]

I could never understand how people think the Dining Plan is free when you have to pay the rack rate for a room.

I would rather have a discounted room.

I've never been excited over any restaurant at WDW, because IMHO, they are all mediocre at best.


Does anyone remember the old Food and Fun Plan?

With 4 people in the room (2A and 2C), I am paying ~$140 a night in a mod for a nice room and $100+ worth of food. So I am getting a room for ~$40. Savings are even greater in a Value (less in a deluxe.) It's very hard to argue you can find discounts to equal that kind of savings. If you don't like eating in the Disney restaurants, that's one thing. But to say there isn't a significant savigns in free dining isn't really valid.

 

[CarolA]

I don't understand why they made it only dessert instead of a choice between dessert and appetizers. Then it would almost be like how we normally eat--some people would order apps, some dessert, and we'd share.

It doesn't really matter though since with no tip included, it's no longer an all inclusive plan. Maybe I'd consider it for free, but maybe not. I'm thinking there are a lot of offsite restaurants I would love to eat at, and I'll rent a car (Texas de Brazil, Joe's Crabshack, Rangetsu, Chevy's, here I come!)

There are a couple of thoughts. One is that if you can order either or folks will do EXACTLY as you would like to. One of you will order appetizer and one desert. One of Disney's goals may be to "turn" the tables faster so they can seat more diners. If you still get both appetizer and desert then the table isn't turned faster.

The other theory is the "sharing" was out of control. The dining plan was NEVER meant for four adult TS credits to provide 8 TS meals, but it was happening and the "large" appetizer was KEY to this plan. (There are whole threads on "which appetizers" work best for this plan. You get a big appetizer and big main dish and share one credit for two people.) This takes up "space" in the resturant that could be sold to folks spending money (either their credits or thier cash!)

 

[Jynohn]

I for one, am thrilled to see these changes in the dining plan. As someone who chose to pay OOP because we don't like counter service and wouldn't use the snack credits, I was really disappointed to see the significant menu changes that have come about as a result of the dining plan. Seems like now there are just slight variations on the same four entrees no matter which restaurant you go to. I think this was a direct result of Disney getting wise to people ordering the most expensive items on the menu and more food than they could possibly eat all in order to "maximize" the plan. I think the new price structure is much more reasonable, and hopefully it will help to bring back some quality and variety to the restaurants.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

Thanks everybody for the thoughts about the DP, free or not. I never tried it, wasn't the right time of year or some other restriction. After reading all this, I know I don't have to ever consider it again..one less complication to think about when planning our trip..Room only, hopefully with a discount..prepurchase AP's, one or two ADRs ....that's as complicated as it gets.

Our DS11 eats NOTHING. We wouldn't buy the DDP because he doesn't eat $38 worth of food in a day. We limit our buffet ADRs because I don't like to pay $30 for a chicken strip and a handful of grapes, and that is what DS eats at buffets.

LOL, I have TWO of these...DS7 and DS9 could easily share a kid's meal and still have leftovers. (How do they survive?) And then once in a (great) while, they will eat everything on their plate..so we never know HOW much to get them..We usually get DH a meal, each of the kids a meal, and I eat "clean-up"...I can't stand to buy everyone a plate and watch half of get tossed in the trash..Even when it's cheap, it just seems like a sin. And believe me, if they would eat it, I would be THRILLED to spend the money to buy everyone their own meal. Luckily, we aren't really interested in the really nice restaurants at this stage in our lives..so for now..NO DDP/free/$ for us..thank goodness.

 

[JuneCleaver]

Not to stray from the concept of "free food" and who is actually paying for it, wasting it, never eating it again, tipping for it, etc....but here is another thought to ponder.

In addition to Free dining offered in 2005, 2006, and 2007...Disney offered the public another free service, Disney's Magic Express. Has it occurred to anyone that Free is never free and we have seen ticket price increases 3 times since Jan.2006 and this last one was quite significant?

Free is only free in theory and those of us not using the service or eating the food are paying the costs over the course of the year!

Disney is a genius at marketing and buzz words...Free and Complimentary being two of them. Look at the "free inclusions" in a package...$15 voucher for one at Planet Hollywood, Sea Raycer coupons and 1 miniature golf coupon per room. Face it...a family of 4 with one coupon for mini golf still needs to pay for the other 3 in the party to play...hence...Disney makes money off of their "free inclusions"!

Call me a curmedgon, a grump, lacking in Pixie Dust, whatever...but the Disney corporation gives nothing for free that they will not ultimately find a way to have paid for by the guests frequenting the parks and resorts.

June

 

[mtblujeans]

...Call me a curmedgon, a grump, lacking in Pixie Dust, whatever...but the Disney corporation gives nothing for free that they will not ultimately find a way to have paid for by the guests frequenting the parks and resorts.

June

Actually, let's call you 'Marketing Minded'

 

[RickinNYC]

Not to stray from the concept of "free food" and who is actually paying for it, wasting it, never eating it again, tipping for it, etc....but here is another thought to ponder.

In addition to Free dining offered in 2005, 2006, and 2007...Disney offered the public another free service, Disney's Magic Express. Has it occurred to anyone that Free is never free and we have seen ticket price increases 3 times since Jan.2006 and this last one was quite significant?

Free is only free in theory and those of us not using the service or eating the food are paying the costs over the course of the year!

Disney is a genius at marketing and buzz words...Free and Complimentary being two of them. Look at the "free inclusions" in a package...$15 voucher for one at Planet Hollywood, Sea Raycer coupons and 1 miniature golf coupon per room. Face it...a family of 4 with one coupon for mini golf still needs to pay for the other 3 in the party to play...hence...Disney makes money off of their "free inclusions"!

Call me a curmedgon, a grump, lacking in Pixie Dust, whatever...but the Disney corporation gives nothing for free that they will not ultimately find a way to have paid for by the guests frequenting the parks and resorts.

June

I agree but let's not just point fingers at Disney. ALL major corporations do it. "Free" is what brings the customers.

ETA: Wanted to add that I personally never took on the free food, never cared to. Free or cheap, meal plans were never our style so admittedly, this whole issue never impacted us nor will it ever really. I'm using it for the first time (not free but darn cheap) this November, but that's only because every single ding dang person I'm traveling with is going that route.

I'm 6'4" and 215lbs and I won't be ordering everything I possibly can, i.e. every snack, an appetizer/main course/desert. Eating to that degree every single day? If I had the metabolism of a 14 year old cross country runner, sure. But I'm a (soon to be) 41 year old man and I certainly don't need that much food.

Strangely enough, my body can handle vodka with no problem, but high fat/sodium food? Heck no. So bring me a martini and let me ponder more conspiracies. And keep 'em comin' baby.

 

[mtblujeans]

...Strangely enough, my body can handle vodka with no problem, but high fat/sodium food? Heck no. So bring me a martini and let me ponder more conspiracies. And keep 'em comin' baby.

That's strange?

 

[janets]

When I was trying to do some comparisons the other day on whether the DP was still a good deal for our family, I simply could not figure out which scenario I should concentrate on...the one comparing this year's program to next year's program, comparing what we would eat and the cost on the DP vs. the same restaurants OOP (taking into account the items I would order if paying that way) or comparing DP vs. eating offsite?

Obviously we all agree that there is a significant loss between the 2007 and 2008 plans. I mean, really, remove an appetizer valued at around $8 AND eliminate the tip and then only reduce the cost by $1? Wow, thanks for that savings.

But if you compare paying for the plan (i.e. my family in 2008 will be 3A1C so the cost is about $124/night) to what you would pay OOP if you did 1CS and 1TC per day (taking into consideration that DH and I would have an appetizer but no dessert, most likely), and realize that in both instances you have to cover the tip yourself, we still come out ahead taking the plan (our dinner at LeCellier OOP, for example, is almost exactly what I would pay for the entire DP for a day, making the CS and snacks free).

However, if you compare DP to eating offsite, then you have a big difference. The plan is about $124/night, add in the tips for TS dining (about $22) and you're at about $146/night. Eating offsite for dinner for my family costs about $45 including tax. Eating lunch on site is about $25 and maybe $10 for some breakfast foods. Add in a couple of snacks (average $3) and my daily OOP cost comes to around $85. That's a big difference from $146.

I need to add that our next trip (probably August 08) we have the option of using our DVC points (and buying the DP) or seeing if they offer free dining. That puts another wrinkle in the mix. DVC points means food cost is only $124/night. If I do free dining, we stay at WL for around $250/night so our cost is actually $125/night more, plus I have to buy a 1 day pass for everyone (we have APs). So for us, free dining is far from free.

I'm sure this is more than any of you wanted to know about me and my frantic calculations but Rick's ponderings got me really thinking that we might be done w/ the DP after our trip next week. It's been fun while it lasted, but I think I can make better use of my money.

 

[Mary2e]

What I must admit has been TRULY amazing to me, is hearing just how much some folks eat at Disney. I can't take a TS meal two or three times a day for a 10 day vacation, but...... (Heck I can't do one TS meal a day for more then about two days in a row!)

Hear Hear

I booked the premium package in spite of the 3 TS meals a day I did not want. We ended up using 1 of the TS for breakfast room service every day and mostly ordered fruit. When we didn't half of my breakfast went to the ducks

We ate mostly TS salads for lunch and had to stick to the Signature restaurants for dinner only because it was almost impossible to get a reservation at any TS restaurant covered by the DP. We did have lunch at Chefs de France one day we were at Epcot for a tour and had dinner late that night, again at a Signature restaurant. I did notice the TS restaurants aren't that crowded for lunch at all - no matter where we went.

We refused some of what we were "entitled" to and the wait staff looked at us like we were nuts. I guess they were conditioned by people trying to squeeze every penny out of the plan.

The quality of the restaurants has gone down, though not as much at the Signature restaurants.

I still prefer to eat what I like when I like, and if it means spending $200 per day for food one day, and $50 the next, it's our choice. We don't have to feel we didn't get our money's worth because dining was prepaid.

I agree with the OP 100%.

 

[gina2000]

Just because you're telling people that they're getting a TS meal at a discount, it doesn't mean they're getting good TS or the TS that made a restaurant steller. Keep that DDP coming. People will eat anything if you tell them it's a good deal. Personally, I'd rather eat Applebees quality food at Applebees prices.

 

[joy13]

I could never understand how people think the Dining Plan is free when you have to pay the rack rate for a room.

I would rather have a discounted room.

I've never been excited over any restaurant at WDW, because IMHO, they are all mediocre at best.


Does anyone remember the old Food and Fun Plan?

Because not everyone has a way to get a discounted room, in fact, I am guessing more people pay Rack rates for rooms than get discounted rooms. If you can get a discounted room, then yeah, that's a better deal. I had no way of getting a discounted room - I was going to go a week later and had it all priced out, then I saw the free dining ad. I got the same package with dining (was not getting the dining plan with the later reservation) and they came out to the same price, so for me the dining was free.

 

[disneymom3]

However, if you compare DP to eating offsite, then you have a big difference. The plan is about $124/night, add in the tips for TS dining (about $22) and you're at about $146/night. Eating offsite for dinner for my family costs about $45 including tax. Eating lunch on site is about $25 and maybe $10 for some breakfast foods. Add in a couple of snacks (average $3) and my daily OOP cost comes to around $85. That's a big difference from $146.

This is somewhat inline with what DH and I were thinking after we participated in free dining last Sept. Now, for us it was a great chance to try it out. We wanted to go somewhere without the kids and hey, WDW is always a good choice. We also wanted to see what we thought of the famed Dining Plan. We basically decided that it was not for us. A big part of that reason was having to pay rack rate for the room and simply staying onsite vs offsite. We really like having the kids in their own room. A lot. So, we came to the conclusion that not only was it way more food than we ever would eat on one vacation, but also that if we were to stay offsite, and pay WAY less for our accomodations (we have three kids for one thing) then we could simply have some meals and tell everyone they could order absolutely anything they wanted and still save a bundle o' cash.

 

[iluvdizknee]

We are planning our trip for next July 2008, DH, DS 17, DD 14 and myself. 14 days....we were looking forward to the DP, until I read these posts. I don't care about the appetizers, but the tip! That could get really costly on a large bill. We don't know what to do now. All of us were looking forward to trying some restaurants that we were never able to afford, like LeCellar,etc, but to have to leave a $30 or $40 tip could really cramp our budget.
SO CONFUSED