Change in plans...

[btcrane]

This economy has caused everyone to to re-evaluate whats worth it...and what's not.

This, to me, says it all. The disagreement here could continue forever, but I think both sides actually agree--the only difference is in what one side views is worth it, and what the other side says isn't worth it anymore. That's a subjective decision with no right or wrong answer. I'll be making my first visit to Fort Wilderness next month (can't wait!). We bought a camper last summer and thought we'd be pulling it down to stay in. While we LOVE our camper, when we did the math, it wasn't any more economical for us to pull the camper that many miles than to just stay in a cabin (we have a family of 5, including 2 teenagers). So we'll get the outdoorsy experience without the hassle and stress of pulling the camper from WV to FL (we're newbies).

Whether or not Fort Wilderness, or any other Disney resort for that matter, is "worth it" depends on the individual. My best friend can't understand why we're making our fifth trip to Disney in March--and our sixth in August! It is not worth it to her. But to me...knowing that this is one vacation place on earth where I can please every member of my family, from my diva daughter to my sports fiend, laid back son, keeps bringing me back. The excitement of everyone when we first drive through the gates, the thrill of Rockin' Roller Coaster, our annual contest to see how many times we can manage Test Track in one day--we are building memories. And I can't wait to build memories at Fort Wilderness. I don't know what tomorrow brings, but thankfully, I know I can afford the vacation today. And I know my kids are going to be grown and out of the house in a blink of the eye.

So to me, yes, it's worth it. But whether you're talking about a camping site or a room in a deluxe resort, it's all subjective. So we can all agree to disagree. Happy Valentine's Day, everyone!!!

 

[TheFlame]

I'm sorry. I don't know what kind of camping you do but you are certainly welcome to use the tent pad behind us at The Fort when we're there.

Thank you Cindy!

We have a 35ft. 5th wheel, so even though the Fort is not good at imposing rules, they might frown on our set-up!

I have really enjoyed reading your comments and you give us a new desire to consider staying off-property. Thanks!

 

[tim5055]

Sorry, but as I read these five pages I feel the need to comment. Many folks are reacting from emotion. Remember, Disney is a business. They exist to make a profit for their stockholder. The entire basis of teh cost structure is based on "yield management".

Yield Management

By: Glenn Withiam

Executive Summary: Yield management is the umbrella term for a set of strategies that enable capacity-constrained service industries to realize optimum revenue from operations. The core concept of yield management is to provide the right service to the right customer at the right time for the right price. That concept involves careful definition of service, customer, time, and price. The service can be defined according to the dimensions of the service, how and when it is delivered, and how, when, and whether it is reserved. Timing involves both the timing of the service delivery and the tining of when the customer makes known the desire for the service, whether by reservation or by walking in to the business. Price can be set according to the timing of the service, the timing of the reservation, the type of service, or according to other rules that seem appropriate. Finally, the customer can be defined according to demand characteristics relating to the service, the timing, and the price. The ideal outcome of a revenuemanagement strategy is to match customers' time and service characteristics to their willingness to pay-ensuring that the customer acquires the desired service at the desired time at an acceptable price, while the organization gains the maximum revenue possible given the customer and business characteristics.

The strategic levers of yield management can be summarized as four Cs: namely, calendar, clock, capacity, and cost. They are bound together by a fifth C: the customer. The strategic levers of yield management are geared to matching service timing and pricing to customers' willingness to pay for service in relation to its timing. Based on customers' demand levels and characteristics, management can shift the demand of those customers who are relatively price sensitive but time insensitive to off-peak times. Shifting that demand clears prime times for customers who are relatively time sensitive but price insentive.

So, as long as their are sufficient folks who will book at the high rates with no "specials", the prices will remain. When bookings begin to go down, so will the prices.

 

[Born 2 Fish]

I have decided to take a cue from Disney in our business,,in the next 18 months I will raise our prices 3 times and start charging xtra because I will try to do new and improved workmenship, but your gonna recieve less product and service.

Okay,,ya'll can start lining up now,,an open your wallets,,your gonna wanna get in on this .

 

[Flametamr]

Okay I love a good debate and this little one here between Jen and Shan speaks volumes to how I feel about Disney. As the people here know me and my Siggy shows I have been looking forward to a stay at the Fort since I bought my camper in October. But I must admit I'm seriously having second thoughts now. With my DD's handicaps it will be more work to stay at FW. Then you add the rate increases it really makes it less attractive. We normally stay at a moderate resort during free dining. I pay more for a nicer resort but come out ahead with free food. And I love exploring the different flavors of Disney.

The main reason I wanted to stay at the fort was to soak up the atmosphere. But is that really worth over $100 a night and I have to cook my own food after a long day just to make up the difference. I think not. The fort seems nice enough but not at the prices I see quoted for when I want to visit and the level of the site I want.

Finally I too have been guilty of posting about how Disney keeps cutting corners and raising prices. And I had my share of Disney faithfull jump on me too. It's just plain discusting how Disney can do it with a straight face and expect you to be blinded by Pixie Dust. Since when is it a good business practice to just rip people off. It is also funny how some people accept these cuts as just a cost of doing business. I disagree completely. We all go to Disney expecting a certain level of service for our hard earned money. When Disney fails to deliver that service accidently or intentionally they loose our trust and eventually our business. The only thing Disney really has going for it is that it is a unique place. For that we are willing to pay a little more to experience it. But there is a limit as stated here already. I have a specific number in my head that I'm willing to spend. But if the current trend of raising prices and cutting corners continues at Disney I won't be spending anything at all. Regardless of discounts or free things which the fort does not seem to have anymore.

 

[Cindy F]

Thank you Cindy!

We have a 35ft. 5th wheel, so even though the Fort is not good at imposing rules, they might frown on our set-up!

I have really enjoyed reading your comments and you give us a new desire to consider staying off-property. Thanks!

Awww, thanks and you're welcome!

BAHAHAH!! Yeah, they might not buy the fact that you're just "tent camping" on our pad LOL! Hmmmm, they consider a pop up a tent for partial site bookings...I wonder....

If we let a camper use the huge pad in front of us (since our little pup goes all the way to the back) would they buy us being a tent? If we are considered a tent on a tent site....wouldn't we be considered a tent on a full hook up site (with maybe a camper in front of us)? Our camper van is our tow vehicle and that's totally fine with them just sayin.....

This is very bad of me to think this way...bad Cindy...BAD, BAD! But I do feel bad with all that wasted space...seems like SOMEONE should be able to use it. Maybe someone with a drivable RV....that just happened to have a 2" hitch....and just happened to back up to our popup....and just happened to tow us onto our site....and just happened to stay there with us. What? I'm just sayin'....


ETA: Just a side note: Four for a Dollar no longer opens the Beauty and the Beast Show at MGM. 14 years.....and now gone. I was really looking forward to hearing them too.

 

[auntie]

Okay I love a good debate and this little one here between Jen and Shan speaks volumes to how I feel about Dsiney. As the people here know me and my Siggy shows I have been looking forward to a stay at the Fort since I bought my camper in October. But I must admit I'm seriously having second thoughts now. With my DD's handicaps it will be more work to stay at FW. Then you add the rate increases it really makes it less attractive. We normally stay at a moderate resort during free dining. I pay more for a nicer resort but come out ahead with free food. And I love exploring the different flavors of Disney.

The main reason I wanted to stay at the fort was to soak up the atmosphere. But is that really worth over $100 a night and I have to cook my own food after a long day just to make up the difference. I think not. The fort seems nice enough but not at the prices I see quoted for when I want to visit and the level of the site I want.

Finally I too have been guilty of posting about how Disney keeps cutting corners and raising prices. And I had my share of Disney faithfull jump on me too. It's just plain discusting how Disney can do it with a straight face and expect you to be blinded by Pixie Dust. Since when is it a good business practice to just rip people off. It is also funny how some people accept these cuts as just a cost of doing business. I disagree completely. We all go to Disney expecting a certain level of service for our hard earned money. When Disney fails to deliver that service accidently or intentionally they loose our trust and eventually our business. The only thing Disney really has going for it is that it is a unique place. For that we are willing to pay a little more to experience it. But there is a limit as stated here already. I have a specific number in my head that I'm willing to spend. But if the current trend of raising prices and cutting corners continues at Disney I won't be spending anything at all. Regardless of discounts or free things which the fort does not seem to have anymore.

I'm a Disney fan from way back..I mean we went as kids, and I've taken my own family regulary since '91. Sure it's expensive. Only it was a place where we could bring our family and there was something for everyone. Given the age differences in our kids..it was a blessing to have somplace where EVERYBODY was happy. Over the years..we did see some of the "magic" start to dissapear. The little things we enjoyed that made Disney "magical". It wasn't the price of the rooms(which are considerable)..you kind of expect they'll increase. More in the area of customer service and cleanliness. Not so much the price of the tickets..but the way, they would chip away at their value..charging more for the no expiration..or the park hopping. Little things that long time visitors were used to as the magic of Disney.
Admitidly, as much as we are huge Disney fans...we took a 5 year break from visiting. When you go to often..you see this. It's in your face and you remember that the year before you didn't have to pay for something that this year... you're paying A LOT for.
I would imagine THAT is what the Floridia residents..or those that live in closer proximity feel only a more heightened level. As they are in a position to visit more frequently...based on their location, but aren't seeing any bang for their buck. You don't walk away thinking.."okay, I paid a small fortune..but..man, I had the greatest time, and my kids think I'm king!"..You're getting..."hey ma...how come we can't do this, or that..we did it last year?"..AND you're paying more than you did last year. (damn greedy little kids! )

I'm not asking Disney or anyone to give me something for nothing. There's always strings attached to those kind of offers. I don't even expect that I'm gonna feel that I got what I paid for in Disney...I KNOW going in it's gonna be a small fortune!..I just want to leave happy after I spend it!

Now all that being said, THIS is what varies from person to person, and is the difference between those that can visit with more frequency (logistically speaking)...and those who make a trip once year or every few years. I know for a fact you don't look quite so carefully at the little things, if you make the trip every few years.
As to FW..I think there are decent rates to be found..and as a once a year visitor you can probably work your way around the $100. - $120.00 a night sites to get yourself a decent value. At least at this point...who knows what the increase in rates..and making the sites into a majority being premium or preferred will bring. If you're a state resident, and they aren't offering the codes or applying AP or Florida resident discounts to the Fort(which you bought SO you could visit more often to begin with)..I can sympathize with that frustration. I wouldn't see myself spending a long holiday weekend there, much as it is likely one of the best spots in Florida to camp. Given these tough economic times...folks aren't so apt to just..."eat" the chipping away at the little things anymore. Now more than ever..you want to know when you spend your hard earned money ...(more money than you would pay to stay else where)..that Disney isn't giving you LESS than they did last year. You may not ask for more..because you know it's Disney..but by the same token.. don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining. Which frankly..that's what I see the current Disney promtion of Pay for 4 days and stay for 7 as. If you want to pay full rack rate..then go ahead. Only Disney's not losing anything on that deal. They are getting people in there paying full rack rate for rooms, and then they offer 7 days worth of passes..for the price of 4. Give me a break a 7 day pass is all over maybe $15 more than a 4 day pass. Please, you can't put a quarter tank of gas in the car for that. Well, at least you won't be able to by summer! All the while they've they've cut back on the AP rates, Florida resident rates, and even public discount codes all previously offered.
I'm not sure how that's workin' for them. I do know that I read on another board (sorry, I cheated) that the hotels are slow..and the parks as well. With this being presidents week, that will probably change. Only I saw photos of the MK and it was compared to the time period after 9-11. I was amazed at how empty it was. Maybe Disney has yet to feel these tough economic times the same way the rest of us are as this goes on..we can only hope they offer us some better deals.

Our family has a Florida trip planned for May. I'd love to say "let's do Disney"..only between park passes and rooms..it's just not affordable. We'll be skipping Disney this year. Unless of course our business goes down the tubes, and we're living in the trailer..then who knows ...us and a couple of cases of wine will be making our way down I95 to Florida..and we'll just hang outside FW looking for one of you lucky campers...to take pity on us and let us camp on your site!

 

[btcrane]

..that's what I see the current Disney promtion of Pay for 4 days and stay for 7 as. If you want to pay full rack rate..then go ahead. Only Disney's not losing anything on that deal. They are getting people in there paying full rack rate for rooms, and then they offer 7 days worth of passes..for the price of 4. Give me a break a 7 day pass is all over maybe $15 more than a 4 day pass. Please, you can't put a quarter tank of gas in the car for that. Well, at least you won't be able to by summer! All the while they've they've cut back on the AP rates, Florida resident rates, and even public discount codes all previously offered.
QUOTE]

I can't say for others' experiences, but for my family the 4/3 deal was signficantly cheaper. We saved $1500, not $15. The "free" days included the room (or cabin, for us) for 3 days, not just the passes. And while $15 may not sound like a lot, we have a family of 5, so that is a savings of $75. Significant enough for us that we've never done 7 day passes before, the most we've done is 5--we're excited to have 7 days!

And while I'm not a Florida resident, or an AP holder, so know nothing about those discounts, if Disney isn't offering what they used to, I think that's very sad. Where I work, we try to keep business local, take care of each other, it's too bad that Disney can't do the same.

And finally, in August we're returning to take advantage of the military passes. While I REALLY appreciate that Disney is offering this, my hat goes off to the Busch parks because they have been offering free passes to military personnel and families consistently every year since 2001. This is only the second time Disney has done it, and it's apparent that it's because of the declining economy. Again, not complaining, and Disney is a business that has to make money, just making an observation.

 

[auntie]

In my experience...I don't think the 4 for 7 deal would be worth it..for us. I can't bring myself to pay full rack rate. It maybe a great deal for some..particularly if they are going during the promotional time period anyway, and would have paid the full rack rate for seven nights. Certainly then, it's better to pay for four. For us..I'd personally..never do that. I've been lucky enough to have NEVER paid full rack rate for rooms. Always been able to secure a pin code mailer/public code/AP rate/AAA rate/ Disney Visa rate/ Disney Club rate..even back in the day.."Magic Kingdom Club rate/ and even further back..(I told you I've been visiting since '91 ) shareholder rates(when they were actually a good 40% off rack rates!).

Can you tell I want my monies worth?
So I can relate to those who live in closer proximity, and counted on their AP passes and Florida resident passes in hopes of obtaining discounts so as to visit more than once a year.