CDC says Cruises can start in July

[hrhdhd]

BTW, I don't see DeSantis telling cruise lines they can't ask women what their gestation is. Since there's a 24 week cut off in pregnancy, medical information is provided. Isn't that HIPPA (fierce sarcasm here)?

No (and it's HIPAA). A woman can share her medical information voluntarily with anyone or any company.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

And HIPAA doesn't apply to an individual or even to DCL. The woman's medical provider cannot give the info to DCL without patient consent.

But once the info is received DCL and its employees are not a covered entity under HIPAA.

HIPAA only applies to covered entities. And contrary to popular misunderstanding, there are actually very few entities subject to the rule.

 

[DCLMP]

it is, for private businesses at least. Decades ago the US Supreme Court has recognized a fundamental freedom of association that allows businesses to choose who they do business with as long as they don't discriminate against certain protected classes. As long as you're not discriminating on race, color, religion or creed, sex (including pregnancy, sexual orientation, or gender identity), age, disability, veteran status, genetic information, or citizenship, then they're good to go. People who are hesitant to get vaccines (without other mitigating factors like legitimate religious objections) are not a protected class.

I always wondered how they had the constitutional right to shut businesses down or tell them how many people they can allow in their store. It seems a little murky to me.

 

[gkrykewy]

Don't forget that the vaccines are not yet approved by the FDA. They have an "Emergency Use" status. If I were in a high risk group and had to travel to a covid hotspot I would consider taking the vaccine. That is not the case so I will wait for FDA approval. Also, there are federal laws that ban employers and others from requiring an unapproved vaccine.

It’s a little silly to worry about at this stage IMO, given hundreds of millions of shots in people’s arms and real world efficacy demonstrated, but it appears formal approvals will be coming in weeks, so well in time for theoretical July cruises.

 

[RamblingMad]

It’s a little silly to worry about at this stage IMO, given hundreds of millions of shots in people’s arms and real world efficacy demonstrated, but it appears formal approvals will be coming in weeks, so well in time for theoretical July cruises.

Once it gets FDA approved, folks will come up with another excuse for not getting it. I don't want to be stuck on a cruise with folks that don't take my health seriously. I'll wait for 2023. Hopefully, we'll be through this by then. And I'll probably still wear a mask as I caught the flu on one of these cruises. You can't expect sick people to cancel.

 

[tidefan]

Are you sure you didn't mean the Fantasy, as it's been docked in Port Miami for the past 2 days, the Dream has been offshore Port Canaveral for over a week. The Fantasy I'm assuming is moving to Miami in preparation for application for test cruises out of that port since the CDC's CSO requires each ship to qualify to operate out of EACH US Port with test cruises and testing etc. before they can qualify.

So... Saw this interesting news as well.

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/ports-destinations/portmiami-begins-cruise-ship-crew-vaccination

Maybe this is why the Fantasy is in Miami...

 

[ThinkTink1]

Given how poorly the amendment to Florida SB 2006 is written, DCL can probably comply with the Florida law and the CDC guideline as long as they give unvaccinated travelers (or those unwilling to prove that they're vaccinated) fairly unrestricted access to that 5% allocation that is allowed by the CDC guidance while still requiring proof of vaccination from the remaining 95% of passengers.

I agree... it’s like the DVC resorts... they have to leave a small percentage of their inventory to guests purchasing the room not using DVC points... that 5% might not be able to pick whatever date they wanted.

 

[ThinkTink1]

So... Saw this interesting news as well.

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/ports-destinations/portmiami-begins-cruise-ship-crew-vaccination

Maybe this is why the Fantasy is in Miami...

They are doing this at Port Canaveral too!!

 

[ahain]

Perhaps this has already been asked (if so, I apologize).....
Vaccine information is logged in a national database....could cruise lines have/get access to that database so that they can know if potential passengers have or have not been vaccinated?

 

[BartmanLA]

Perhaps this has already been asked (if so, I apologize).....
Vaccine information is logged in a national database....could cruise lines have/get access to that database so that they can know if potential passengers have or have not been vaccinated?

There is NO national vaccine database at all, The CDC does not maintain any sort of viewable database on who has gotten the Covid-19 vaccine. So in essence there isn't a database that any corporate or private entity could access at all. This would have to be something set up through a bill in Congress to make it a law to create one.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There is NO national vaccine database at all, The CDC does not maintain any sort of viewable database on who has gotten the Covid-19 vaccine. So in essence there isn't a database that any corporate or private entity could access at all. This would have to be something set up through a bill in Congress to make it a law to create one.

To be clear, there ARE 50 independent state databases.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

To be clear, there ARE 50 independent state databases.

And they are likely wildly incompatible. By which I mean platform, data labels, and overall data tables. So merging them would be expensive and messy, certainly not something done quickly, cheaply or soon.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And they are likely wildly incompatible. By which I mean platform, data labels, and overall data tables. So merging them would be expensive and messy, certainly not something done quickly, cheaply or soon.

It might not even be legal.

That said, I imagine some kind of third party software could plug into each state database and come up with a binary Pass/Fail for each individual with an account.

 

[RamblingMad]

And they are likely wildly incompatible. By which I mean platform, data labels, and overall data tables. So merging them would be expensive and messy, certainly not something done quickly, cheaply or soon.

And within states there are several databases. It’s one big mess. The vaccine card is the best we have right now.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And within states there are several databases. It’s one big mess. The vaccine card is the best we have right now.

VAMS is good, for the states that are using it. But I think only something like 10 are.

 

[jerry557]

There is no national database and no national standard. States and even local governments all have their own rules on what information they keep on vaccination and health records and who’s allowed access.

Some states aren’t allowing access. Florida does have a database, for example. But the new law that was passed specifically bans it from being accessed by a 3rd party. I believe so far only 2 states, Hawaii and New York, have given serious consideration of allowing a 3rd party program to assess their database for the purpose of a “vaccine passport.”

The pandemic has been somewhat a confusing mess in the US because the patchwork of laws and the way the political systems are organized. Each state for the most part is largely considered to be responsible for the health decisions made within that state. That’s why some places are strict masks and totally shut down while other states never shut down. And likewise every state has different vaccination rules. Some states allow exemptions, some don’t. That’s a primary reason why a vaccine passport is going to be difficult to implement nationally. There are conflicting laws and 50 different systems. Then on top of it it’s a very divided nation so no one wants to work together.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

And they are likely wildly incompatible. By which I mean platform, data labels, and overall data tables. So merging them would be expensive and messy, certainly not something done quickly, cheaply or soon.

My wife is in this line of healthcare IT, as a consultant. Each state is required to host some type of statewide "cross-talk" platform as a result of the ACA. Even in the best operating states, it's an absolute mess (behind the scenes) just getting basic things, like a family physician receiving admission and discharge data from a hospital stay. Or the same physician's clinic sharing allergy info with a hospital. Even within large health networks, unless every outlying clinic shares an "instance" of the electronic record software, cross-talk is a true nightmare. This is after "meaningful use" went into affect almost 13 years ago. Now imagine trying to get something like this to connect nationally.

I'm in full support of a national database of ALL vaccines, but it would probably take decades at the glacial pace things like this move.

 

[Freeman867]

My wife is in this line of healthcare IT, as a consultant. Each state is required to host some type of statewide "cross-talk" platform as a result of the ACA. Even in the best operating states, it's an absolute mess (behind the scenes) just getting basic things, like a family physician receiving admission and discharge data from a hospital stay. Or the same physician's clinic sharing allergy info with a hospital. Even within large health networks, unless every outlying clinic shares an "instance" of the electronic record software, cross-talk is a true nightmare. This is after "meaningful use" went into affect almost 13 years ago. Now imagine trying to get something like this to connect nationally.

I'm in full support of a national database of ALL vaccines, but it would probably take decades at the glacial pace things like this move.

This is the exact reason we need nationalized health care in some capacity. It should not be this hard to share health information across networks or state lines. It should not be this hard to be able to plug in an SSN and verify I received a Pfizer dose from batch #XXXXX on this date and my second dose on this date at this location.

The technology is 100% there and has been for years to make this extremely easy if companies play ball. As is, they care about profits, and to upgrade their IT infrastructure or reporting capabilities costs money they don't want to give up, so they have no incentive to even do it, let alone do it with any urgency. Health care is a gigantic mess in the US, but no one will do anything about it because the rich who can lobby the people in DC to do anything are getting great healthcare coverage, so they don't see this as a problem.

 

[Canadian Girl]

While Florida might not require a vaccination passport, many other countries, including Canada are considering one for entry. I think time will tell after a larger percentage are vaccinated. I live in Canada where about 90% plan to vaccinate. I have read that the number of far lower in the US. We currently do not have enough vaccines for all those who want one and hospitals in some provinces are overwhelmed with third wave cases hitting and killing younger patients. We have an Alaska cruise booked for the end of August next year. Fingers crossed we can go.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

There is no national database and no national standard. States and even local governments all have their own rules on what information they keep on vaccination and health records and who’s allowed access.

Some states aren’t allowing access. Florida does have a database, for example. But the new law that was passed specifically bans it from being accessed by a 3rd party. I believe so far only 2 states, Hawaii and New York, have given serious consideration of allowing a 3rd party program to assess their database for the purpose of a “vaccine passport.”

The pandemic has been somewhat a confusing mess in the US because the patchwork of laws and the way the political systems are organized. Each state for the most part is largely considered to be responsible for the health decisions made within that state. That’s why some places are strict masks and totally shut down while other states never shut down. And likewise every state has different vaccination rules. Some states allow exemptions, some don’t. That’s a primary reason why a vaccine passport is going to be difficult to implement nationally. There are conflicting laws and 50 different systems. Then on top of it it’s a very divided nation so no one wants to work together.

In particular, the bolded is stupid. We, as patients, "own" our healthcare data. If we choose to consent sharing of said information, the state should be compelled to share it. There should not be extra steps of the patient gathering data before forwarding it to some other party. Much the way a specialist can request our medical records from primary care with our consent, so too should a vaccine registry for school, travel, etc.