CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Gottleib has said from day one that we should vaccinate as many as possible. Even some level of immunity in as many people as possible is better than what we're doing now.

That's a hindsight is 20/20 thing. We have no way of knowing if having some immunity by means of only 1 dose when a vaccine that requires 2 doses is better than having both doses. We will only know that after time. If we had a lot more vaccines in the mix as far as companies (which we hope to expect this coming year) this consideration probably wouldn't be as big of an issue because availability, transportation and distribution would allow for a much more plentiful product and less concerns with "will I get the expected shipment on time and will it be for the same amount (or more) doses than before". But right now with just 2, it's a gamble either way you slice it. And the way some places have been haphazardly giving the vaccine out with additional doses I'm concerned follow up will present an issue.

 

[snappy]

Gottleib has said from day one that we should vaccinate as many as possible. Even some level of immunity in as many people as possible is better than what we're doing now.

I heard Gottleib say don’t hold back the second dose several times, starting several weeks ago, if not longer.

 

[Jonfw2]

That's a hindsight is 20/20 thing. We have no way of knowing if having some immunity by means of only 1 dose when a vaccine that requires 2 doses is better than having both doses. We will only know that after time. If we had a lot more vaccines in the mix as far as companies (which we hope to expect this coming year) this consideration probably wouldn't be as big of an issue because availability, transportation and distribution would allow for a much more plentiful product and less concerns with "will I get the expected shipment on time and will it be for the same amount (or more) doses than before". But right now with just 2, it's a gamble either way you slice it. And the way some places have been haphazardly giving the vaccine out with additional doses I'm concerned follow up will present an issue.

Gottleib has been saying this for months.

 

[Mango7100]

I might be wrong but I believe I read that the Moderna vaccine conferred approximately 50% protection after one dose (of course that’s not i mediate and takes 2 weeks to achieve full response). 50% is still pretty decent—I was hoping for 50-60% protection anyway, the 95% was a welcome shock!

I think you got to get it in as many arms as possible right now. My brilliant state has decided to stockpile some as an emergency, they are withholding 1000+ doses of Pfizer as a back up...if this doesn’t constitute an emergency I don’t know what does.

 

[mom2rtk]

Actually, when I posted that story from the Tampa Bay Times, I was wanting to point out the folly of having thousands of older folks lined up shoulder to shoulder outside vaccination centers. If they had not already been exposed, the situation in those photos looks like it would make sure of it.

As to priorities for older adults, I would say that I agree that those living in nursing homes/assisted living definitely should get priority, and probably also anyone with a chronic condition that often sends them to a doctor's office, but I'm not so sure about healthy retirees who still live independently. Society at large has a vested interest in getting the working-age healthy back to work if they have lost jobs due to the pandemic, and in protecting those who have higher-risk health conditions but must work in person in situations where they come into close contact with large numbers of people. (And yes, some teachers may fall into that category. That is not usually going to be the 22yo teacher; it would more often be the 55 yo teacher who is diabetic.)

I think that where it really gets complicated for Florida is service workers in the hospitality industries. You want to get them back to work so that they are not falling into dependent poverty, but OTOH, if you send them back to work to a business that has no customers because the customers cannot yet access the vaccine, what has been accomplished?

Edited for correction: Story from the Tampa Bay Times; events did not take place in Tampa, but elsewhere in Florida.

If concern for transmission is keeping 22 year old teachers from being in the classroom teaching face-to-face I say they need to be a priority. It’s not so much prioritizing the teachers (regardless of age) as it is prioritizing the education of this generation.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Gottleib has been saying this for months.

Yes.....I'm aware..we had this discussion earlier. I'm saying there's no way of knowing definitively either way. I mentioned strategies on another thread. Depleting your shipment immediately is a strategy but we do not know if that was the right course. Same as all the strategies regarding who gets the vaccine and when. The entire pandemic has been full of strategies that had no way of knowing at the time if they were the right one. And we've come to find out that some of our decisions were wrong and some were right.

 

[NotUrsula]

I never said that.

The actual truth is that we have a military that is capable of handling this rollout and they SHOULD be the ones doing it. We literally have thousands of available medical servicemembers sitting around twiddling their thumbs. Why haven't they been mobilized and given this as their mission? They would get it done. If we can have our military distribute and administer vaccines for Ebola en masse in Africa, we can have them do the same here, very efficiently. My husband, a Marine officer, assumed this would be handled by the Army medical brigades, and he is shocked they are not the ones tasked to do it.

You cannot just send vaccines to states and make them figure it out. At this point, there is no reason to have unallocated vaccine doses sitting around in freezers. Shots should be in arms within a week of receipt by a state. Period.

I can give you a two-word answer (or maybe a one hyphenated-word answer) for-profit.

In today's America, all Federal infrastructure decisions are now made with an eye to making sure that the private sector profits in some way, thus motivating the private sector to provide quasi-governmental services, and thus reducing the size of the Federal Government. The structure is interdependent. There is no way that this Federal government will spend Defense dollars on something that can be outsourced to for-profit companies who, as a ideological bonus, will then be paid by the states. (That the states may well be using Federal grant funds to pay them is ironic -- at best.)

(I'm sure that some folks will read that and then note that I have been on-record in favor of some economically-motivated decisions made during this pandemic. That's absolutely true. Here's the thing: I'm very much a pragmatist. I don't give two hoots for toeing any kind of party line. Given a choice, I personally will always go with whatever method will most expeditiously solve the most pressing problem at hand, and right now, that means speeding up the vaccination system. I agree wholeheartedly that the best solution to this particular problem would be to use the Army. Unfortunately, I'm just about 99% sure that won't happen, for the aforesaid reason.)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I can give you a two-word answer (or maybe a one hyphenated-word answer) for-profit.

In today's America, all Federal infrastructure decisions are now made with an eye to making sure that the private sector profits in some way. There is no way that this Federal government will spend Defense dollars on something that can be outsourced to for-profit companies who, as a ideological bonus, will then be paid by the states. (That the states may well be using Federal grant funds to pay them is ironic -- at best.)

(I'm sure that some folks will read that and then note that I have been on-record in favor of some economically-motivated decisions made during this pandemic. That's absolutely true. Here's the thing: I'm very much a pragmatist. I don't give two hoots for toeing any kind of party line. Given a choice, I personally will always go with whatever method will most expeditiously solve the most pressing problem at hand, and right now, that means speeding up the vaccination system. I agree wholeheartedly that the best solution to this particular problem would be to use the Army. Unfortunately, I'm just about 99% sure that won't happen, for the aforesaid reason.)

You do bring up a point. National Guard was deployed to aid with testing sites for COVID, to aid in supplies to communities for PPE....

 

[KBoopaloo]

nursing HOME staff.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/ohio-dewine-nursing-home-staff-vaccine.amp

And it is not just Ohio. I know places are reluctant to require the vaccine since it is still considered to be under emergency use but it is concerning that so many employees in frontline healthcare positions are not willing to take it yet. I don’t know what the answer is but maybe we need some sort of large scale advertising blitz about the vaccine or a televised info session on every channel or something.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1344644399213420545

 

[anniemae]

I thought if you didn't get the second dose you were not well protected? Does skipping the second dose make your 50% immunity drop? In other words, the second dose boosts your immunity from 50 to about 90%. But if you skip that second dose, will the 50% immunity start to drop?

It just seems it's needed and it was very specific of when to get the second dose, one was 21 days after first does, one was 28 days after. IDK, but it seems like it's necessary to get the second dose but many experts are saying forget about the second and just stab as many arms as we can, but could that bite us later?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

And it is not just Ohio. I know places are reluctant to require the vaccine since it is still considered to be under emergency use but it is concerning that so many employees in frontline healthcare positions are not willing to take it yet. I don’t know what the answer is but maybe we need some sort of large scale advertising blitz about the vaccine or a televised info session on every channel or something.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1344644399213420545

I think it's a complex matter. Whether we like to think of it or not healthcare workers are still individuals who hold their own opinions and viewpoints even in the profession that they are in.

It perhaps can be looked at that having them at the highest priority makes perfect sense in a way and yet not accounting for their individuality such that we didn't leave room for back up plans for this. Regardless of who, over the course of the vaccination plans for the country as a whole, and who isn't getting vaccinated the issue still remains the same, too low of a vaccination amount results in issues such that we def. do not want.

 

[EACarlson]

I thought if you didn't get the second dose you were not well protected? Does skipping the second dose make your 50% immunity drop? In other words, the second dose boosts your immunity from 50 to about 90%. But if you skip that second dose, will the 50% immunity start to drop?

It just seems it's needed and it was very specific of when to get the second dose, one was 21 days after first does, one was 28 days after. IDK, but it seems like it's necessary to get the second dose but many experts are saying forget about the second and just stab as many arms as we can, but could that bite us later?

We just don't know, no one has studied it. I believe I recall reading that the initial effectiveness of the Moderna vaccine was supposed to be 70% but they couldn't say that because of the lack of controlled studies. We also have no idea what the effects of the vaccine might be six months after injection, one year, five years. I can understand some people not wanting to jump in right now.

My wife works in healthcare. She has been told that when the vaccines start going from EUAs to full FDA Approval they will more than likely make them mandatory at her system. Until then it is up to the individual.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I think it's a complex matter. Whether we like to think of it or not healthcare workers are still individuals who hold their own opinions and viewpoints even in the profession that they are in.

This is true.

It shouldn’t be a surprise that many people were negatively swayed by politicians and news media who were for months saying the vaccines were unsafe and they wouldn’t take them (while we were all glued to our screens watching it play out).

Some are still saying it. Others may have changed their tunes, but for many, that trust, once broken, cannot be easily reestablished.

It’s unfortunate that this got so politicized.

I think there is also still a lot of misinformation out there.

 

[Jonfw2]

Hard to avoid sounding political here, but every state in America should immediately go into the next phase of their plans- hospital workers and first responders, you've had your chance. Don't want it? Perfectly fine- now moving on.

People are LITERALLY dying to get this thing.

 

[dvcgirl67]

Hard to avoid sounding political here, but every state in America should immediately go into the next phase of their plans- hospital workers and first responders, you've had your chance. Don't want it? Perfectly fine- now moving on.

People are LITERALLY dying to get this thing.

As long as they've truly had their chance...I agree.

In my world today I heard that a customer of mine who is a podiatrist got his vaccine. He doesn't treat Covid patients, but does work in hospitals to see patients and do surgery. He's also 65 years old and diabetic. And two other friends of mine....married couple, one is a family practice doc who is 70....the other is head of a nursing department at university got hers.....she is starting treatment for breast cancer and so perhaps that's how she moved up. So hopefully we'll all start hearing of more and more people getting it.

I have read in several places that states are holding back doses for nursing homes.....well, what's the hold-up....is it an issue with the pharmacies that are supposed to be giving those vaccines in many cases? Also reading that the holidays are slowing things down as some staff is on vacation....and that hospital staff are all too busy treating Covid patients.

 

[Jonfw2]

As long as they've truly had their chance...I agree.

In my world today I heard that a customer of mine who is a podiatrist got his vaccine. He doesn't treat Covid patients, but does work in hospitals to see patients and do surgery. He's also 65 years old and diabetic. And two other friends of mine....married couple, one is a family practice doc who is 70....the other is head of a nursing department at university got hers.....she is starting treatment for breast cancer and so perhaps that's how she moved up. So hopefully we'll all start hearing of more and more people getting it.

I have read in several places that states are holding back doses for nursing homes.....well, what's the hold-up....is it an issue with the pharmacies that are supposed to be giving those vaccines in many cases? Also reading that the holidays are slowing things down as some staff is on vacation....and that hospital staff are all too busy treating Covid patients.

Oh yes- to be clear, I'm definitely referring to after they have all had their shots (EDIT: their CHANCE! haha.)

A doc friend of mine said that here in Ohio, the pharmacies are doing a FAR better job than the state where they've been recruited to vaccinate- she thinks the state should hand the entire supply over to them.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Hard to avoid sounding political here, but every state in America should immediately go into the next phase of their plans- hospital workers and first responders, you've had your chance. Don't want it? Perfectly fine- now moving on.

People are LITERALLY dying to get this thing.

Ours is LTC..which they already have started. Not all healthcare workers..not by a long shot, have been given the opportunity to get it in my state.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

As long as they've truly had their chance...I agree.

Yeah..it's a bit too early for some places to be doing that. We only had 1 shipment in my state for healthcare workers and first responders, both shipments after that were for LTC. Moderna has only had 2 shipments but one of the shipments just came 2 days ago.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I read on Medscape yesterday that there is a lag time for updates in vaccine numbers, so we need to keep that in mind, too.

“Federal officials have said there's an "expected lag" between delivery of doses, shots going into arms, and the data being reported to the CDC, according to CNN. The FDA must assess each shipment for quality control, which has slowed down distribution, and the CDC data is just now beginning to include the Moderna vaccine, which the FDA authorized for emergency use on Dec. 18.

The 2.1 million number is "an underestimate," Brett Giroir, the assistant secretary of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, told NBC News on Tuesday. At the same time, the U.S. won't meet the goal of vaccinating 20 million people in the next few days, he said.”

 

[Jonfw2]

I am absolutely certain we WILL ramp up shots per day. By a lot. Look at testing. In ten months we went from 200,000 to 2 million per day. The same will happen here.