CDC Notifies States, Large Cities To Prepare For Vaccine Distribution As Soon As Late October

[disneychrista]

I still constantly see arguments being made locally and nationally to open up the economy.

MOST business sectors are open with (or without) modifications. Very few are completely closed.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

More people need to recognize this.

I still constantly see arguments being made locally and nationally to open up the economy. Well, restaurants have been open, at least for take out and outdoor dining, for some time almost everywhere. And, in my area, restaurants can't even get outdoor dining at capacity during what would be peak days/hours. People are just choosing not to eat out, NOT because the government is telling them they cannot. (Unless people somehow bizarrely value indoor dining over patio/outdoor dining so much so that they just rather not go out to eat). Every time a business closes, this is the misinformed comment I usually see on my NextDoor and FB. Just....unbelievable.

There's a mixture of that in my area but some places have no problems. Chili's for instance in my direct area was NEVER packed before COVID. We went in there and they had tables blocked off for social distancing but the amount of people inside was really no more no less than before. I just don't know how they survive but they do.

We've actually run into situations where the outdoor dining wasn't open not because of interest level (as in people do actually want to eat out there) but related to staffing problems. More than a month ago we went to Cheesecake Factory for dessert. We wanted outdoor dining, we go in and they say they aren't seating there. I ask if it's because they are short staffed and the girl got an attitude but said "no it's because it's muggy out". Listen I've lived here my whole dang life no place in this area closes their patio dining during the summer because it's muggy out . If that was the reasoning no place during the summer would be open. Then she said it was because of the rain earlier in the day. The rain had ended like 7 hours prior. It was really just staffing issues and it's something other places have run into. The wait, due to the tables having to be sat apart, for inside was 1 hour 45 mins. We wanted to eat outside so we just left and went to another place that had outdoor seating for dessert. We've eaten several times outside (mostly dessert) for this local steakhouse, 1 time they weren't seating outside and at least admitted it was staffing issues that night. The last time we went they reopened the patio they had just closed 15mins before we got there for us to sit outside (it was about an hour before close).

We've been to places where hardly anyone was inside with most choosing outside dining.

Other places are def. hurting on getting people in, I know one of my main things I look for is outdoor seating as much as possible and not every place has that and not every place is in an area here that has temporarily allowed parklettes/taking up parking spaces nor have every place taken up the offer to do that even if they are located in an area that allows for that.

I've seen fast food closures in higher than I expected numbers. A BK closed, an Arby's closed, a Taco Bueno closed, a Subway inside a Walmart closed, etc. I think with those it was a combination of profit margins too close, staffing issues, customer service, and more.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

MOST business sectors are open with (or without) modifications. Very few are completely closed.

I get the impression that when some people say they want the economy open they mean without restrictions. I don't necessarily agree with that route but I can see where some people consider say an occupancy restriction for instance to not be fully open or to have a table space requirement as both of those can impact just how many people they can take or not having a mask mandate because some people will choose not to eat somewhere if they do have a mandate.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

MOST business sectors are open with (or without) modifications. Very few are completely closed.

True, but some are really struggling to stay afloat with those restrictions.

For example, in my county, dance studios are only allowed to be open outdoors with modifications. Some forms of dance can do this, but my older two are at a pre-professional level and even with outdoor dance floors, pointe work isn’t safe to be done. So the studio has gone to zoom, which is something, but is very limited and she’s lost over 50% of her enrollment because of it. Fingers crossed that we move to red by mid-Oct like is predicted and she can start getting some of these dancers back in the studio!

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not advocating for full openings or anything, but I there is definitely a gray area in “open”.

 

[sam_gordon]

I guess that depends on what range you're comparing with.
Based on US daily new case numbers, the past 2 weeks have seen cases going UP.

Look at post #606. It's the Worldometers chart of new daily cases with the 7 day average marked in. There was a dramatic dip in cases around the beginning of September. Yes, compared to that dip, cases are up higher now. If you look from the middle of August, new cases are on a slight decline, even including that dip. I guess if you're a "glass half empty" kind of person, you can look at the chart and say "the 7 day average is about 50% higher than what is was in June.

 

[disneychrista]

True, but some are really struggling to stay afloat with those restrictions.

In some cases even fully open they are going to struggle. There are many people, like me, we are just not ready to go back to doing things. For me it is the wording that is used. “Open up” when they really mean get rid of the restrictions.

 

[disneychrista]

I guess if you're a "glass half empty" kind of person, you can look at the chart and say "the 7 day average is about 50% higher than what is was in June.

How is that a glass half empty comment if it is true?

 

[sam_gordon]

How is that a glass half empty comment if it is true?

"Glass half empty" doesn't mean something is false. A glass is 50% filled. Would say it's "half empty" or "half full"? They are both true. It depends on your outlook.

If you look at the chart, we're higher now (in daily new case count) than we were from March through the end of June. Do you want to compare that? However we're also lower now than we were in July and going into August. Those are both facts. Which one would you like to focus on?

 

[Colleen27]

More people need to recognize this.

I still constantly see arguments being made locally and nationally to open up the economy. Well, restaurants have been open, at least for take out and outdoor dining, for some time almost everywhere. And, in my area, restaurants can't even get outdoor dining at capacity during what would be peak days/hours. People are just choosing not to eat out, NOT because the government is telling them they cannot. (Unless people somehow bizarrely value indoor dining over patio/outdoor dining so much so that they just rather not go out to eat). Every time a business closes, this is the misinformed comment I usually see on my NextDoor and FB. Just....unbelievable.

I think people want to believe that reopening will provide a near-instant economic recovery. Capacity limitations have become a scapegoat, a way of ignoring how weak consumer demand is and how much weaker it is likely to get in the near future. And I think in a lot of places, business owners are feeding that narrative - quite a few in my community have talked about how it isn't worth it to open up again at 30 or 50% capacity because their staffing doesn't scale down so they can't be profitable while only partly open. But the places that are open aren't turning customers away because of those limitations; even at what should be peak times of day/week (we're a daytripping/tourist town, so sunny Saturdays tend to be pretty packed), there's no wait for a table at the most popular places in town and many places are just not opening during the week when locals are the main/only market. Twice this summer, I've walked in and was seated on the patio immediately at a seafood place I like that normally requires reservations if you don't want to wait an hour or more for a table.

 

[LuvOrlando]

The corporate Wall Street stuff here is way overdone in my opinion. First and foremost, they HAVE to publicly announce this stuff as it's considered material information. Second, Wall Street already knows they won't be making a ton of money off of it. Third, if the vaccine hurts people or fails to work, that's as negative as today's news is positive.

In short, there's no true area to be suspicious of their motivations here.

Hard to argue it's not all about the money when they make so much of it, and then there is this guy https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/business/dealbook/martin-shkreli-pharma-bro-drug-prices.html

Plus, I'm still stunned over the 2008 con as outlined in Rolling Stone's Secrets and Lies of the Bailout.

Big business has a trust problem and that problem spreads to anyone big business gets cozy with sort of like fleas.

 

[disneychrista]

"Glass half empty" doesn't mean something is false. A glass is 50% filled. Would say it's "half empty" or "half full"? They are both true. It depends on your outlook.

I get what you are saying. While both are true for me it would depend on how full the glass started. If I am drinking a glass of water and I have drank half of it the glass half empty. If I have an empty glass and only fill it half way it is half full.

 

[LuvOrlando]

It's a circular discussion. You'll still cry "states reopened too quickly" as a general statement regardless what I post. I could post all day long about this and that and you'd still say "yeah well we reopened too quickly" no matter how much more information we gain about this virus. You didn't even speak towards the Houston study, IIRC correctly you were very much on the "TX reopened too quickly" track. And I understand that viewpoint...back then. But as our interest in the whys into the virus increases so does our understanding. Science shouldn't just be used when it suits our viewpoint.

I remember when the medical community was looking at June and July cases that were spiking around the nation with questioning in that and I remember them wondering about strains, reopenings, masks and more. It wasn't just one place that had an aggressive reopening plan it was a good amount of them even with more conservative reopening plans. It would be very beneficial if we could look more into things like them putting the pieces together about a more aggressive strain in a given area, we can't change the past but we can understand it better.

Also if you see where the rest of the world is resurging too and you can't really argue that they all just suddenly reopened too quickly, some of them were in such tight restrictions that we wouldn't even dream of here.

Has the Houston thing been peer reviewed yet? It reads like spin to me and a red herring meant to distract from upticks that have resulted from mask behaviors. Seems we are in a circular loop of news telling each of us what we prefer to hear so as to land the blame into the ether, we all just disagree and all the decision makers hands are magically washed clean. We are all twitchy so the word mutation gets a lot of interest but blue eyes and dimples are mutations too so unless I'm hearing US Dr's (who are ethically required to do no harm) are calling for severe curtailments of what we are doing now the mutations go into the dimple bucket of Ok it might be a mutation but not a meaningful mutation.

PS - https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/pandemic-virus-slowly-mutating-it-getting-more-dangerous
PSS- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867420308205

Wondering if the race to get us immunized ASAP might be about getting some form of protection into the population before exposure so we won't be immunologically naive to future mutations, might be a small window of time.

 

[Jonfw2]

Hard to argue it's not all about the money when they make so much of it, and then there is this guy https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/22/business/dealbook/martin-shkreli-pharma-bro-drug-prices.html

Plus, I'm still stunned over the 2008 con as outlined in Rolling Stone's Secrets and Lies of the Bailout.

Big business has a trust problem and that problem spreads to anyone big business gets cozy with sort of like fleas.

The Shkreli thing was about a bad man. Not a bad company.
Neither that nor the 2008 bailout have anything to do with the desire of pharma companies today to get this one right.

 

[LuvOrlando]

The Shkreli thing was about a bad man. Not a bad company.
Neither that nor the 2008 bailout have anything to do with the desire of pharma companies today to get this one right.

Both do speak to what you said about concerns over Wall Street. These examples justify public caution because the financial industry is not altruistic and we have seen time and time again that when an opportunity for profit shows itself (particularly when there is fear) there will be sharks looking to exploit. This doesn't mean there are no good people in the mix, it does mean that a measure of caution is valid.

 

[DLgal]

I think people want to believe that reopening will provide a near-instant economic recovery. Capacity limitations have become a scapegoat, a way of ignoring how weak consumer demand is and how much weaker it is likely to get in the near future. And I think in a lot of places, business owners are feeding that narrative - quite a few in my community have talked about how it isn't worth it to open up again at 30 or 50% capacity because their staffing doesn't scale down so they can't be profitable while only partly open. But the places that are open aren't turning customers away because of those limitations; even at what should be peak times of day/week (we're a daytripping/tourist town, so sunny Saturdays tend to be pretty packed), there's no wait for a table at the most popular places in town and many places are just not opening during the week when locals are the main/only market. Twice this summer, I've walked in and was seated on the patio immediately at a seafood place I like that normally requires reservations if you don't want to wait an hour or more for a table.

I'm sure this is area specific. Where I live, the outdoor dining at most restaurants I drive past at all hours of the day is COMPLETELY FULL. It's been that way for awhile. Most places will have a line at 11am, right before they open. Many restaurants here were requiring reservations for outdoor patio dining, due to high demand. Places have only gotten busier once indoor dining was allowed.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Has the Houston thing been peer reviewed yet? It reads like spin to me and a red herring meant to distract from upticks that have resulted from mask behaviors. Seems we are in a circular loop of news telling each of us what we prefer to hear so as to land the blame into the ether, we all just disagree and all the decision makers hands are magically washed clean. We are all twitchy so the word mutation gets a lot of interest but blue eyes and dimples are mutations too so unless I'm hearing US Dr's (who are ethically required to do no harm) are calling for severe curtailments of what we are doing now the mutations go into the dimple bucket of Ok it might be a mutation but not a meaningful mutation.

PS - https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/pandemic-virus-slowly-mutating-it-getting-more-dangerous
PSS- https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867420308205

Wondering if the race to get us immunized ASAP might be about getting some form of protection into the population before exposure so we won't be immunologically naive to future mutations, might be a small window of time.

I don't know why you would think it's some red herring and used as a distraction. We've know about different strains, I remember mentioning the D strain months ago, they've been talking about a more infectious strain for months now, the UK studied it as well finding strain there back in Spring and that is the strain the study is discussing made it's way from Europe to parts of here. It's nothing to do with what you want to hear. That's what I was talking about, you can't just use science to suit your viewpoint and use it selectively. They aren't trying to make up some way to go around masks. They studied the results from people's positive results of the genetic makeup of it and happen to see this strain.

 

[Hikergirl]

Well when it's approved those NYers who want to be first in line may not be able to get it anyway unless our emper.. I mean our governor deems it's safe.

 

[Jonfw2]

Both do speak to what you said about concerns over Wall Street. These examples justify public caution because the financial industry is not altruistic and we have seen time and time again that when an opportunity for profit shows itself (particularly when there is fear) there will be sharks looking to exploit. This doesn't mean there are no good people in the mix, it does mean that a measure of caution is valid.

You’re indicting an entire industry on one guy and a worldwide crisis that had very little to do with that industry. Not a word of that relates to this.

 

[Jonfw2]

Also, Luv, I don’t think you’re aware that Shkreli didn’t actually work for a pharma company notre did he have anything to do with drug development.

 

[LuvOrlando]

You’re indicting an entire industry on one guy and a worldwide crisis that had very little to do with that industry. Not a word of that relates to this.

I don't think I'm doing that at all. It seemed as though you were saying that the industry is as pure as new snow and that caution is not deserved. While it's true big business can drive many innovations, such as vaccine development and medicine, to say it's not motivated by profit rings hollow. It's not all that pure, there have been recent offenses where big business has been complicit in exploiting need and fear and that people are justified in being cautious due to the track record.

I know Shkreli wan't part of the medical side of things, but he was capable of driving things in a detrimental way and his influence hurt people. This means there is a gap between caregivers and the cared for that can be occupied by people who do not have the public's interest at heart, the industry doesn't exist in a vacuum.