Cast Members Rally

[Wall-E1]

http://money.cnn.com/2014/02/11/news/companies/disney-workers-union/

According to this article, the current union contract expires at the end of March. Disney offered a 3.5% increase. The union is asking for a larger increase. If a starting Disney character wage is $8.20, the 3.5% increase would amount to about a 29 cent raise ($8.49). They'll negotiate and most probably come to a figure somewhere in between both of their proposed percentages. These are normal negotiations that happen when a union contract comes up for renewal.

From what I can tell, this is a union movement. Right before their contract comes up. hmmmm.

There's nothing suspicious about this. That is why workers have unions - to give a unified voice for the workers at times like this (when a contract is up for renewal). This is the norm in these situations.

No one is forcing them to work for Disney. If they are unhappy with their pay then take your skills and go somewhere else.

Or, they can utilize their union to advocate for higher wages. Nothing wrong with what they are doing. Contracts are negotiated all the time. The workers shouldn't feel that they need to stay silent and just take whatever the corporation gives them. They should have a voice and be able to enter into negotiations before signing on to a new contract.

 

[skatalite]

So I'm still wondering, what is "right" or "fair" when it comes to wages and benefits?

To me, as long as an employer is following the law (paying minimum wage, following OT rules, etc), then it's "right" AND "fair".

Do I want my employer to "share" their "rewards"? Sure I do. Does that mean I think they're being unfair if they don't? Nope.

No one will honestly be able to answer your question. If they do, the answer will be emotionally charged.

I wonder how Disney's wages and benefits compare to other companies who employ people for similar roles, like Mouse/housekeeping. How does Disney compare to, say, Best Western? Or food service workers: How does Disney compare to McDonald's and Chili's?

I've yet to read an article that details what workers are unionized, how much they get paid, and/or what their benefits are. Could someone please link me to that information if they have it?

 

[eliza61]

So quit! that is not allowing someone to take advantage of you!
whining in public and wanting others to speak up for you and do something about it is not.

Obviously, you never heard about the civil rights movement.
In essence that was one big whine fest in public.
And if I'm on the front line rallying, how exactly is that letting some one speak for me. What it is, is realizing there is strength in numbers.
Personally , I think quitting is the cowardly action. Basically the person is too scared to stand up for themselves.

I guess it's how you view it. My parents were civil right workers. My mom an attorney. They taught me I had a right to expect certain treatment and respect and if I didn't get it, I also had a right and responsibility to fight and correct the problem. Not run away and leave it for the next guy.

 

[sam_gordon]

No one will honestly be able to answer your question. If they do, the answer will be emotionally charged.

I wonder how Disney's wages and benefits compare to other companies who employ people for similar roles, like Mouse/housekeeping. How does Disney compare to, say, Best Western? Or food service workers: How does Disney compare to McDonald's and Chili's?

I've yet to read an article that details what workers are unionized, how much they get paid, and/or what their benefits are. Could someone please link me to that information if they have it?

Good questions. However, a number of people on this thread have at least implied what Disney offers it's employees is "unfair" or "not right". If they know something is unfair, it stands to reason they know what's fair.

 

[sam_gordon]

Obviously, you never heard about the civil rights movement.
In essence that was one big whine fest in public.
And if I'm on the front line rallying, how exactly is that letting some one speak for me. What it is, is realizing there is strength in numbers.
Personally , I think quitting is the cowardly action. Basically the person is too scared to stand up for themselves.

Sorry eliza, I think you're comparing apples to oranges. Regarding the civil rights movement, there were only two options, keep the status quo or work to change it.

An employee has those two options, AND one more... find another job that pays what you're happy with.

 

[skatalite]

Good questions. However, a number of people on this thread have at least implied what Disney offers it's employees is "unfair" or "not right". If they know something is unfair, it stands to reason they know what's fair.

Sure, I gotcha.

Now I'm wondering if other companies in the Orlando area base their wages and benefits on what Disney pays their employees, considering the large number of employees Dis has on payroll. Because if Disney basically sets the wages, then we'd have to compare them to comparable cities throughout the nation to see if they're being "fair" or not.

 

[Hannathy]

Sorry eliza, I think you're comparing apples to oranges. Regarding the civil rights movement, there were only two options, keep the status quo or work to change it.

An employee has those two options, AND one more... find another job that pays what you're happy with.

Exactly!! very well put. not comparing the same thing at all.

 

[eliza61]

Good questions. However, a number of people on this thread have at least implied what Disney offers it's employees is "unfair" or "not right". If they know something is unfair, it stands to reason they know what's fair.

Does it matter? In reality all that matters is the rallying workers believe it's unfair.

I remember an sports interview with a famous quarterback about the Native Americans being upset with the name "Redskins".
Anyhoo, the interviewer ask him how he felt, he replied "doesn't matter how I feel, what matters is how the Native Americans feel"

 

[Hannathy]

Does it matter? In reality all that matters is the rallying workers believe it's unfair.

I remember an sports interview with a famous quarterback about the Native Americans being upset with the name "Redskins".
Anyhoo, the interviewer ask him how he felt, he replied "doesn't matter how I feel, what matters is how the Native Americans feel"

Just because they believe it doesn't make it true. There are millions of children who believe in Santa doesn't make it true.

 

[eliza61]

Sorry eliza, I think you're comparing apples to oranges. Regarding the civil rights movement, there were only two options, keep the status quo or work to change it.

An employee has those two options, AND one more... find another job that pays what you're happy with.

But in reality they are not. Both are about keeping the status quo.

If you think about it Sam, no concrete change has ever occurred by simply leaving. First of all, leaving a job is not as simple as you an Hannity make it out to be.
Second usually mass protest point out the systematic, inequality. It's not about one guy not getting a raise.

it's about an entire industry that has historically and systematically engaged in unequitable compensation.

That's why we're seeing them pop up now more than ever. Mcdonald workers, walt disney workers, casino workers. all are seeing their big employees make gabillons of dollars in profits and not fairly reward the people who make it happen.

What you think Disney is not interested in keeping the status quo?

 

[skatalite]

Does it matter? In reality all that matters is the rallying workers believe it's unfair.

I remember an sports interview with a famous quarterback about the Native Americans being upset with the name "Redskins".
Anyhoo, the interviewer ask him how he felt, he replied "doesn't matter how I feel, what matters is how the Native Americans feel"

It kind of does matter.

Rarely will someone say they're being paid what they think they're worth. Just because I believe I'm worth double what I'm paid doesn't mean anyone will pay me that much.

It comes down to what the market will bear for the positions being discussed. Companies typically pay to the position, and if housekeepers generally make minimum wage plus tips, then why should Disney pay their Mousekeepers more just because a group of them believe they're worth it?

 

[sam_gordon]

Does it matter? In reality all that matters is the rallying workers believe it's unfair.

But because they believe that doesn't mean it's right. If the Disney honchos think their contract offer IS "fair", who is right? They can't both (Disney & employees) be right, can they?

But in reality they are not. Both are about keeping the status quo.

If you think about it Sam, no concrete change has ever occurred by simply leaving. First of all, leaving a job is not as simple as you an Hannity make it out to be.
Second usually mass protest point out the systematic, inequality. It's not about one guy not getting a raise.

I agree one person leaving is not going to change anything. But that doesn't mean "rallying" will change anything either. IMO, all they're doing is getting people riled up because the "big, bad company" is being "unfair". I'll even agree that maybe Disney is being "unfair". But as skatalite(?) pointed out, you'd need to compare what other comparable companies are paying their workers for similar tasks to determine if something is fair or not.

 

[eliza61]

It kind of does matter.

Rarely will someone say they're being paid what they think they're worth. Just because I believe I'm worth double what I'm paid doesn't mean anyone will pay me that much.

It comes down to what the market will bear for the positions being discussed. Companies typically pay to the position, and if housekeepers generally make minimum wage plus tips, then why should Disney pay their Mousekeepers more just because a group of them believe they're worth it?

but we're not talking "worth". My company doesn't pay me what I'm worth lol but they do pay me equitably.
I am compensated on the outcome of the company fortunes. when my company has a banner year, the employees down to the guards in the guard shack get a piece of the proverbial pie.
Every year I have a doc "discussion of contribution". I and the union go in and say "hey, you made 500 billion dollars" as a direct result of the work we did. Whatcha going to do for me? ( a little nicer than that).

Now if you ask me I'd get 10% raises annually but I do get a piece of the pie.
No way could they tell us no raises but we made 120% over Profit margin. well they could but we would do the same thing the disney folks are doing.

Actually we'd have a total shut down of our union sites but that's a different story.

 

[skatalite]

but we're not talking "worth". My company doesn't pay me what I'm worth lol but they do pay me equitably.
I am compensated on the outcome of the company fortunes. when my company has a banner year, the employees down to the guards in the guard shack get a piece of the proverbial pie.
Every year I have a doc "discussion of contribution". I and the union go in and say "hey, you made 500 billion dollars" as a direct result of the work we did. Whatcha going to do for me? ( a little nicer than that).

Now if you ask me I'd get 10% raises annually but I do get a piece of the pie.
No way could they tell us no raises but we made 120% over Profit margin. well they could but we would do the same thing the disney folks are doing.

Actually we'd have a total shut down of our union sites but that's a different story.

But companies don't have to share the pie if they don't want to, beyond what they already provide (fair wages, raises based on their standards, bonuses, promotions and benefits). Is it fair or right? I don't know, it depends on who you ask (clearly, haha!)

I read once that Disney does give raises every year, but many positions have a max. Example: A Mousekeeper might max out at $12 an hour, even if he/she has been there 15 years.

I believe this DIS Unplugged podcast talked briefly about it, too (but I might be wrong): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_jXmkcYWII

 

[eliza61]

But because they believe that doesn't mean it's right. If the Disney honchos think their contract offer IS "fair", who is right? They can't both (Disney & employees) be right, can they?


I agree one person leaving is not going to change anything. But that doesn't mean "rallying" will change anything either. IMO, all they're doing is getting people riled up because the "big, bad company" is being "unfair". I'll even agree that maybe Disney is being "unfair". But as skatalite(?) pointed out, you'd need to compare what other comparable companies are paying their workers for similar tasks to determine if something is fair or not.

Absolutely agree on that. That's why rallying and picketing have to be use knowledgably (sp) and without the vitrol that gets thrown around in public demonstration.

Totally on your side with that.

What disney and other company's need to look at is the bottom line problem and the fundemental coporate pay structure.

If we have 4000 employees rallying, could there be a basic inequity in our practices. Are we compensating them comparably and if we say we want the most talented best employees, are we reflecting that?

some times a rally is simply the opening salvo to say "hey let's take care of this problem before it becomes out of control"

 

[Hannathy]

If you think about it Sam, no concrete change has ever occurred by simply leaving. First of all, leaving a job is not as simple as you an Hannity make it out to be.

Actually change has occurred because people left or didn't go into it. And no 1 person leaving a big place like Disney won't hurt them but if mass amounts left cause other places were paying more and they couldn't hir enough to run the business it would change and they would have to pay more.

On area that change happened was nursing. It used to be one of the few careers open to women and paid very poorly. As more careers opened to women there was a nursing shortage, hospitals had to pay more and as the wages got better more people went into nursing. Did 1 person quit change it ? no but lots of people quitting did.

Supply and demand it works.

 

[diznygirl]

If the wages they are paying resulted in them NOT being able to find workers to fill those positions, then Disney would in effect be "forced" to raise wages to fill the positions.

Since they ARE able to fill those positions, and many who wish they could work for them, what is the incentive for Disney to change?

They have people that are willing to work for minimum wage just to be "part of the magic." Disney is the luckiest business on the planet in that regard.

Nothing fair about it - but that's the reality.

I'm not sure the current rally will change anything - and I agree with others that it's just part of the contract negotiating process.

 

[eliza61]

But companies don't have to share the pie if they don't want to, beyond what they already provide (fair wages, raises based on their standards, bonuses, promotions and benefits). Is it fair or right? I don't know, it depends on who you ask (clearly, haha!)

I read once that Disney does give raises every year, but many positions have a max. Example: A Mousekeeper might max out at $12 an hour, even if he/she has been there 15 years.

I believe this DIS Unplugged podcast talked briefly about it, too (but I might be wrong): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_jXmkcYWII

lol. you're right, they don't have to. but then don't complain when you get labor unrest.

 

[eliza61]

Actually change has occurred because people left or didn't go into it. And no 1 person leaving a big place like Disney won't hurt them but if mass amounts left cause other places were paying more and they couldn't hir enough to run the business it would change and they would have to pay more.

On area that change happened was nursing. It used to be one of the few careers open to women and paid very poorly. As more careers opened to women there was a nursing shortage, hospitals had to pay more and as the wages got better more people went into nursing. Did 1 person quit change it ? no but lots of people quitting did.

Supply and demand it works.

it didn't change quietly. it changed because women fought to get jobs in other areas. You don't remember womens Lib? lol that sure as heck wasn't quiet. You don't remember women fighting very publicly for equal pay as men. I believe a fight they are still very vocal about?

That is your idea of quiet?

 

[Hannathy]

it didn't change quietly. it changed because women fought to get jobs in other areas. You don't remember womens Lib? lol that sure as heck wasn't quiet. You don't remember women fighting very publicly for equal pay as men. I believe a fight they are still very vocal about?

That is your idea of quiet?

Don't change the topic/statement

You stated change never occurred because someone left and I gave you an example of when it did.

can't change the statement mid debate just because someone gave an example you didn't like or it proved you wrong.