For those who didn't see this, here's Tracy M's interview with Dr Drew:
PINSKY: Earlier this week I talked with the woman who stayed in the Anthony home with Casey for nine days after she got out of jail in August of 2008. Tracy McLaughlin is an associate of bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. Their agency put up $500,000 in bail money for Casey.
Now, it was riveting to hear about the dynamics in the Anthony household during that time and Casey`s unbelievable lack of interest in her daughter Caylee`s well being.
PINSKY: What was Casey like?
MCLAUGHLIN: Casey was a the happiest, nicest person I`ve ever met.
PINSKY: Slow down, because people are going to be surprised to hear this.
MCLAUGHLIN: OK.
PINSKY: Happy and nice?
MCLAUGHLIN: Happy, nice, charming. I expected -- I got to her house maybe two minutes before she did from jail.
PINSKY: Yes?
MCLAUGHLIN: And I`m sitting on the couch thinking this is going to be the most awkward moment of my life because it`s just a horrible situation. And everybody`s sitting in there.
Well, Casey walks in, George and Cindy are there, and she looks over and she said, "Oh, you`re the babysitter?" And she came over and gave me a hug.
And then Cindy hugged her. And, "Hi, dad." And Lee was there.
There was no crying, there was no urgency, let`s go find Caylee, let`s look for something. Casey`s hair smelled from being in jail, so she took a shower. And then we got out and planned dinner. She wanted her --
PINSKY: Did the family say, what`s going on with Caylee, can`t we get on with this?
MCLAUGHLIN: No. I think Cindy had said let`s handle this delicately.
PINSKY: So you mean it was because you were there they weren`t go to talk about it?
MCLAUGHLIN: No. I think because they knew what they were dealing with, with Casey. And they wanted to get the truth out of her. And as I stayed there, I figured it out. You had to just treat her with kid gloves.
PINSKY: And if you treaded on her lies, would she react with outrage or --
MCLAUGHLIN: She would close up and she would -- yes, she would -- "Don`t tell me I`m a liar. I`m the only one that knows what happened."
PINSKY: And she`ll get enraged?
MCLAUGHLIN: Enraged.
PINSKY: She actually got angry with Leonard at one point, right?
MCLAUGHLIN: She got angry, yes.
PINSKY: For that.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
PINSKY: What did she say to him?
MCLAUGHLIN: We had -- I`ll go back to -- the first morning I was there, I woke up to George screaming at Casey.
PINSKY: The first morning?
MCLAUGHLIN: The very first morning.
PINSKY: What was he screaming about?
MCLAUGHLIN: "Where is my granddaughter? What have you done with her? I know you`re lying. Quit lying."
It was just this huge deal. "Quit lying to me. Where`s my granddaughter?"
And she`s screaming back, "Don`t treat me like a scum bag cop! Why don`t you try being a father for once?"
It was this huge fight. Well, she comes in the bedroom -- I was in her room, so she came in there just mad because she said my dad won`t -- "He always treats me like he`s a cop. He always thinks I`m lying."
Well, I didn`t say anything about that.
Cindy came in and she said, "George, we promised we wouldn`t do this to her. You`ve got to leave." So George had a friend Jim that was staying with him, and they took off for the weekend --
PINSKY: And then Cindy --
MCLAUGHLIN: -- on one of the Caylee missions that they go to.
PINSKY: Hunts.
MCLAUGHLIN: Hunts, yes.
PINSKY: Looking for Caylee.
So, George, from your perspective, it seemed like he had no idea about what was going on, except he had a hunch.
MCLAUGHLIN: He knew something was -- I think George knew something was really wrong, but --
PINSKY: But this whole idea of the defense put forward?
MCLAUGHLIN: That was horrible. I have no doubt that he has never touched Casey. I don`t think Lee has. I`m maybe not too sure about that one.
But I was getting back to when she yelled at Leonard -- this is going back to my story. George had to leave, and so I sat and talked to Casey.
And I said we`re not -- it`s hard to remember the way things went. But I said, "We`re not going to find her, are we?" And she just kind of smiled.
And one of the things I didn`t do was question, and I let her little - - I just let her do it her way. So I said, "Well, Casey" -- this is when Cindy came in, so maybe it was for Cindy`s sake. I said, "Leonard is a bounty hunter, he`s really good at this. If anybody can find Caylee, Leonard can."
This is when Zenaida had Caylee.
PINSKY: That was her lie then, Zanny the nanny had her.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, that Zanny had her.
So, against Jose`s wishes -- I mean, this was a whole sneak thing. He did not want Leonard speaking to her. He didn`t even really want me speaking to her. I wasn`t supposed to talk to her about anything important.
So Leonard comes in and sits down. He says, "OK. Well, where is she?"
And Casey starts with, "Well, I dropped her off at the Sawgrass Apartments." And Leonard says, "OK, but don`t tell me that story. I know you`re lying."
And it went on for maybe a minute. And she said, "You`re not treating me like a cop either. You don`t know what`s going on. This interview is over. Get the F out of my house."
PINSKY: Tracy talks about how childlike Casey was and how uncomfortable she was when Tracy tried to even bring up Caylee.
MCLAUGHLIN: She just wanted to make everybody happy. She wanted everything to be happy. So I asked her at one point, "How can you not be upset with all this going on?"
PINSKY: Right.
MCLAUGHLIN: She said, "Well, I just can`t let this negativity get to me. I just can`t let that happen."
PINSKY: Did you follow on with any questioning?
MCLAUGHLIN: What do you say to that?
PINSKY: Just let it go? Yes. It`s so bizarre.
And my understanding, also, you said to me once that if you knew her for 10 minutes, you`d know something is very, very wrong.
What would I find out? What would I know? What would I feel?
MCLAUGHLIN: She wanted to play in her bed. She`s very immature. She wanted to play in her bedroom, put on clothes that matched. She had her ankle monitor, so she wanted me to wear a wristwatch around my ankle, which I did.
I went along with everything that she did.
PINSKY: So she was very, very childlike?
MCLAUGHLIN: Very childlike.
PINSKY: Did the parents infantilize her? Did they treat her like a little infant?
MCLAUGHLIN: I think they -- yes, they did.
PINSKY: Did you have any sense that she was impaired? Like neurologically impaired? Like there`s something -- a screw loose somewhere, something missing?
MCLAUGHLIN: There`s definitely a screw loose.
PINSKY: But I mean --
MCLAUGHLIN: She`s a smart girl. Smart, but not as clever as she thinks she is, or she would have known to maybe act like she was upset that she had a missing daughter.
PINSKY: Right.
MCLAUGHLIN: And then we hear the media -- well, you know --
PINSKY: But by screw loose, I mean a missing part. Like some part of her that we all understand as humans when we worry about our children, that we empathize with --
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. She doesn`t have it. She doesn`t care. It didn`t --
PINSKY: Interesting.
Now, I also understand that you`ve said one of the most upsetting parts of the trial was when Jose Baez accused George in the opening arguments about molesting Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It all began when Casey was 8 years old and her father came into her room and began to touch her inappropriately. She could be 13 years old, have her father`s (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in her mouth, and then go to school and play with the other kids as if nothing ever happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: My understanding is you feel that George had nothing to do with any of this stuff.
MCLAUGHLIN: I don`t think that George did. And it was --
PINSKY: He didn`t know that the child had drowned, he didn`t know that -- he wasn`t involved in a cover-up, he hadn`t touched --
MCLAUGHLIN: No. I think he knew Caylee was dead only because when they found the car, and they hadn`t seen Casey -- and Cindy did try to find her. I mean, she`s an adult. She can take her child wherever she wants to. And Cindy knew that.
But when they found the car, they smelled that decomposition. They opened the trunk, they see that garbage bag. And I`m sure for a minute, an hour, whatever, their mind was tricked. It`s like, oh, I thought it was a body. It`s a garbage bag.
But when they got home and found Casey, and there`s no Caylee, that`s when Cindy`s 911 call happened. I think Cindy was in denial, but I`m pretty sure George knew something really bad had happened.
PINSKY: Such interesting insight into the complexities of this case.
PINSKY: I`ve seen people do lots of horrible parenting, but when they have a support system available, usually kind of turn it over to them. Why didn`t Casey just do that?
MCLAUGHLIN: Casey couldn`t do that because she was so caught up in -- it might be called image. I`m not sure what you want to call it, but Casey couldn`t -- she was sick of having her child --
PINSKY: She was?
MCLAUGHLIN: I`m saying if she -- she wanted to go out and party. She wanted to be with her friends.
PINSKY: Yes. Did you observe that, by the way?
MCLAUGHLIN: No.
PINSKY: OK. But --
MCLAUGHLIN: She didn`t care about Caylee. She didn`t mention -- Caylee was like a pain. She didn`t want to talk about her.
PINSKY: Right.
MCLAUGHLIN: Her type of personality, that would not be good for her image, for her friends to think, oh, you gave your child to your parents. It`s the same person who has -- she`s 22, she doesn`t have a babysitter. She has a nanny, you know? She doesn`t have --
PINSKY: Who paid for that?
MCLAUGHLIN: She didn`t have a nanny.
PINSKY: Oh, she never had anything like that. No. OK. She alleged that.
MCLAUGHLIN: But it was a nanny, not a babysitter.
PINSKY: I see.
MCLAUGHLIN: She didn`t finish high school and told me she was working on two college degrees. When there`s texting -- when the smell first started coming out in her car, she was texting a friend that two squirrels climbed up there and died. In the opening statements, not just her father but her brother molested her. Casey only has to take it to that higher level, and that excites her.
PINSKY: Making things overly dramatic.
MCLAUGHLIN: Uh-huh.
PINSKY: My understanding is also she brought up chloroform with you.
MCLAUGHLIN: Uh-huh.
PINSKY: Tell us about that.
MCLAUGHLIN: We were watching an episode -- I don`t watch much TV. I think it was a hills. Teenagers drinking at a bar.
PINSKY: Yes.
MCLAUGHLIN: We were talking about getting drunk. She said, you know, she liked to drink. She said she liked (ph) to party. And I said have you ever heard of GHB. And she said, yes like roofies. And then said, yes, like ether (ph), and she said chloroform. That was it. but this was way before anything have come out --
PINSKY: Did that strike you as peculiar because chloroform --
MCLAUGHLIN: Not at the time.
PINSKY: I mean, people do use inhalants like chloroform, but it`s pretty unusual. It`s pretty rare.
MCLAUGHLIN: Well, I just thought she was smart, and she knew (INAUDIBLE). I didn`t know. I didn`t think anything of it. Not at all.
PINSKY: It`s interesting.
MCLAUGHLIN: Until it came out, you know, there`s chloroform in her car and all the other stuff. And I think, oh, that was a good conversation.
PINSKY: Right. Right. You also observed her reacting to bones being found in the park as opposed to on bones were found --
MCLAUGHLIN: I didn`t observe that. It upsets me. I don`t know. This is just, I guess, my opinion. When there`s a Texas Equusearch -- huge. You know, thousands of people out there searching for Caylee. Leonard took it upon himself during that search to have divers go out to the Blanchard Park because of some of the things that she said to me. I thought that maybe -- I thought that Caylee was under water because of a song that we listened to every day.
It`s called "The Pass" by Sevendust. I don`t remember the lyrics. I wish I could remember what they were, but it`s something about beneath the water, and then, something else I hope it doesn`t scream my name. I`ve erased the past again.
PINSKY: Wow! It was spooky, right?
MCLAUGHLIN: It was spooky, but she was in jail, and this was reported that we`re out there. The media tells that we found bones at Blanchard Park. Well, they lockdown the jail, and they put -- you know, she has to go back in and reports, and it`s probably videotaped through the jail. She did a little smirk, walked back in her cell, and it was no big deal. Now, when the body was found on suburban drive, she had a meltdown. She hyperventilated. She had to go to the medical doctor. This is all reported.
PINSKY: Right.
MCLAUGHLIN: To me, that says, OK, Casey and only Casey knew where that body was. If she didn`t know, why wouldn`t the Blanchard Park bones - -
PINSKY: Very, very suspicious.
MCLAUGHLIN: In my opinion, that`s something the jury should have heard.
PINSKY: There`s so much the jury didn`t hear, truly. Wouldn`t you say?
MCLAUGHLIN: Uh-huh. And what they did hear, I don`t understand their --
PINSKY: The verdict?
MCLAUGHLIN: Not at all.
PINSKY: You know, so many of us have been thinking about this case and studying and looking at her, and it`s easier when you have all the facts, not just what a courtroom proceeding, when you`re a sequestered (ph) jury, it must be very difficult. You know, it`s may be an indictment of our system than this particular case. And then, finally there was an experience with the photo album about Caylee`s photo.
MCLAUGHLIN: This is Casey wanting to -- there`s a couple things, like, we`re sitting on the floor talking about the stickers. She stuck me with a heart sticker on my knee, and I had a little smiley face sticker on my other knee. It was a little --
PINSKY: Childlike stuff.
MCLAUGHLIN: And one time, I had Caylee`s photo album on and I was looking at pictures of her. I said, oh, that`s a cute picture. Not sure what she was doing. And Casey said, no, look at this one. As I`m sitting on the floor, she covers Caylee`s photo album with hers of her and Lee growing up. She wanted me to look at those pictures.
PINSKY: Weird.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
PINSKY: And speaking of Lee, did you get any weird feelings about him?
MCLAUGHLIN: Not really. He was --
PINSKY: I recollect -- you and I --
MCLAUGHLIN: Distrustful of me, I think.
PINSKY: Well, he`s distrustful, and he`s also very executive.
MCLAUGHLIN: Oh, OK. Yes.
PINSKY: That seemed kind of peculiar to me, and he wasn`t there at the sentencing. That something funny there, just feels funny.
MCLAUGHLIN: At the time, Lee was the one that drove me to the house. We waited for Casey to get home. It was after they found the death band on the hair. And he called his dad -- he was driving home from work, George. And he said don`t listen to anything on the radio, get home. We`re going to talk, and he sat them down in the table. We`re going to do this, this, this. you know --
PINSKY: So, he was in control of the defense.
MCLAUGHLIN: Uh-huh. Cindy was afraid of Lee a little bit.
PINSKY: Afraid of her son. That`s her son, right?
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes.
PINSKY: Afraid of him?
MCLAUGHLIN: Not afraid, not like he was going to hurt her, but she had the fear that George had of Cindy from what I witnessed, Cindy had of Lee.
PINSKY: Interesting. So, what do you think is going to happen next?
MCLAUGHLIN: I think she`s going to get out.
PINSKY: Yes. Is she in danger?
MCLAUGHLIN: Oh, probably.
PINSKY: Yes.
MCLAUGHLIN: They`ll probably hide her for awhile, but she`s not going to put up with that for very long. She wants to be out. She`ll want to be on TV. She loves the media. When I stayed there, she would be upset if there were clouds or the hurricanes because the helicopter wouldn`t be able at the house (ph). We counted the vans in front of the house every day. And at one point, this was when Rob and I were driving her, and she said, oh, I know what Jose and I could do.
We could go on the Howard Stern show. We could get some information out about Caylee, and then she laughs. And she said, no. He`d want to know what my bra size was, and if Jose was hitting it. It was just funny to her. Everything was funny.
PINSKY: How many days had Caylee been gone at that point?
MCLAUGHLIN: Thirty-one when she was arrested.
PINSKY: So, it`s like roughly 25 days or so?
MCLAUGHLIN: It`s past that amount of time. It`s when she bailed out. She got arrested July 15th. This was after August 21st, I think, was when they bailed her out.
PINSKY: It`s sickening, isn`t it?
MCLAUGHLIN: It`s really sickening. She didn`t want to be bothered with anything about Caylee. Not a tear. Not a deep sigh. It was almost an annoyance.
PINSKY: Well, you`re someone that has spent time with her and very few people have. What do you went down? What happened?
MCLAUGHLIN: What I think happened is she got in a fight with her mom. Cindy confronted her about stealing money from her grandmother. I think that`s coming out a little bit right now, but she got in a fight. I do believe she used chloroform. And in a fit of anger -- this is where I can`t guess if it was accidental. I mean, who should be putting chloroform to their child`s mouth in the first place? Accidental or on purpose. Put it in there.
PINSKY: And then, she, herself, disposed of the body?
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. Well, she kept her in her trunk. To me, it`s so easy to figure out. Kept her in trunk, panicked, brought it back to the house, that`s when the duct tape went on, and that`s when the heart sticker - kidnapping, that`s what I`m going to do. That`s what she thought about. You know, had it in a trunk bag so it wasn`t smelling like, you know, people -- some friends had been by her car and they said they didn`t smell it. Well, OK, it didn`t smell yet.
When George almost got to the trunk with her gas cans, and she threw the gas cans out of -- I think she panicked then. Went down to her little spot, threw the body out, I think, the bag ripped, and that`s when that`s, you know, horrendous, smell was strong.
PINSKY: Wow.
MCLAUGHLIN: Of course, that`s my own opinion.
PINSKY: Tracy, it`s chilling when you tell it. And, you know, I appreciate you sharing the story. I mean, you were the one there touching and feeling these people.
MCLAUGHLIN: Yes. There`s more.
PINSKY: Yes. I could talk to you all day. It`s fascinating. But I actually -- a feeling I get frequently during at the show when I`m reporting on Casey Anthony, I get a little sick to my stomach.
MCLAUGHLIN: I did yesterday, and I thought of you, because you said that.
PINSKY: I`m having that experience now. So, thank you for generating that for me. At least, a couple of (ph) shows I get it, but I do appreciate you coming on and sharing the story.
MCLAUGHLIN: Thank you.
PINSKY: I appreciate that.
PINSKY: Truly fascinating.
**********************
Here's the lyrics to the song Tracey said Casey played everyday:
The Past"
(feat. Chris Daughtry)
Beneath the water
that's falling from my eyes
lays a soul I've left behind
the edge of sorrow was reached but now I'm fine
I've filled the hole I had inside
I'll pray it doesn't scream my name
so I light a flame and let it breathe
the air that kills the shame
I'm up
I'm down
like a rollercoaster racing through my life
I've erased the past again
a risky morning
I feel like I'm alive
I can't believe I've made it through this time
the edge of sorrow I lived in for some time
(lived in for some time)
has left the hole I have inside
The burden is I try my hate
was the last thing I ever felt
or thought I could escape
I'm up
I'm down
like a rollercoaster racing through my life
I've erased the past again
[x2]
You let me in then broke me down
the difference is this time around
I will not let you see me try
I'm up
I'm down
like a rollercoaster racing through my life
I've erased the past again
[x2]
Erased the past again now
Erased the past again
Beneath the water
that has fallen from my eyes
She didn't testify, did she?
