Carrying Guns

[Magpie]

Talk about oversimplifying.

How about the group that owns guns and are NOT responsible with them (leaving them out where kids can get them, leaving them in UNLOCKED cars and then finding out the guns were stolen)?
How about the group that don't own guns, understand them, and understand why people would want them?
How about the group that don't own guns, but wish ALL those who do would be responsible?
How about the group that owns guns but don't have any ammunition ? When DW's father passed away, we inherited his rifles. I have no interest in getting ammunition, but I'm not going to tell DW we need to get rid of the rifles.

We have inherited hunting rifles, too. My brother-in-law stores them at the gun club, and every now and again he'd get them out and we'd get venison. It's been a few years though... He's more into sailing, these days.

Someday, when this generation passes on, my kids will get custody of their grandfather's rifles.

 

[Hikergirl]

I think you'd be surprised. lol

Anyway, even a four year old knows that guns are for killing.

You said guns are for killing. Period.
You also painted gun owners with a very broad brush.
Like I said, you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Well, first of all mass shootings are an American phenomenon. Canada does not have a gun culture. There's no legal way you are getting your personal handgun into Canada.

Whoa whoa whoa...you do realize that Canada has actually experienced mass shootings.

Now yes the number isn't near what the U.S. has had but it still has had them. It's inaccurate to say it's an American phenomenon as if it doesn't occur at all elsewhere.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Whoa whoa whoa...you do realize that Canada has actually experienced mass shootings.

Now yes the number isn't near what the U.S. has had but it still has had them. It's inaccurate to say it's an American phenomenon as if it doesn't occur at all elsewhere.

There is absolutely no comparison to the US and any other country for mass shootings. It is an American phenomenon.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Well, first of all mass shootings are an American phenomenon. Canada does not have a gun culture. There's no legal way you are getting your personal handgun into Canada.

Less common, but not non-existent (on both counts).

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Less common, but not non-existent (on both counts).

I didn't say it was non existent.

Here are some stats on mass killings:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html

As the article states, only in America are mass killings routine.

 

[Magpie]

First time for everything. Bad things happen in ALL countries, Canada is not immune.

And I already know there is no legal way for DH to take his gun into Canada. We've been to Canada many times via the bridge between the two Sault Ste. Marie cities. The border patrol has always looked at our driver's licenses (then our passports when they started requiring those), asked us a couple questions and waved us through. So, we probably could leave his gun in the camper on the assumption that they would not search the camper and could "get away with it." But we aren't going to do that. We take our CCP seriously and wouldn't do something that could jeopardize that right being taken away.

But even though you say Canada doesn't have mass shootings it still could happen and we would prefer to be prepared to protect ourselves. Also, there are bears and wolves in Canada just as there are in Michigan. We would prefer to be able to protect ourselves from those as well.

For me, as a Canadian, a gun isn't "protection". It isn't how I protect myself. Even if I had a gun in the house, it'd be under lock and key, with the ammunition in a separate locked container. So, basically useless to me in the event of my needing to protect myself or my family.

If I feel a need to protect myself, I keep a baseball bat nearby. I get a dog. I am observant. When up North, where there are bears and wolves, we'd take a baseball bat with us when we took our (large) dog for a walk. The bat was less for our protection, than for the dog's, as sometimes wolves would menace him, and occasionally he'd try to go after a bear. I never worried, though, about letting my kids walk to the store or play at the playground. Without the dog to cause problems, wild animals really weren't a threat to us. The kids knew to go immediately (and calmly) to the nearest store or home, and get inside, if they spotted a large animal.

There is no likely scenario in which a gun is going to be of any use to me. After all, concealed carry isn't allowed in Canada. So, I'm definitely not taking my gun to church. I might have it in my camper, but it's safely stored and inaccessible to me, if I'm unlucky enough to experience our country's first ever campground massacre. Now in the South, as an urban Canadian, while moose do occasionally wander into the city, I really don't feel the need to protect myself from wildlife.

Mass shootings are tragic and awful, and yes... Canada has had a few. But, I think trying to prepare for them, as if I honestly believed the next one was right around the corner and could hit me at any moment, would be very bad for me, psychologically, and for my country, culturally-speaking (if everyone started believing this, too). The odds are vastly in my favour that I will never be in a mass shooting, and so I choose to live my life accordingly. For me, this is like when I chose to let my 9 year old son have a paper route and go out on deliveries alone. Yes, he could have been kidnapped and murdered. But the odds were vastly in his favour, and the benefits he reaped from being independent and in the world far outweighed the risk.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

You said guns are for killing. Period.
You also painted gun owners with a very broad brush.
Like I said, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Ok, if you say so, it must be true. lol

 

[IAHFTPT]

So, how about them Cubs?

 

[CdnCarrie]

First time for everything. Bad things happen in ALL countries, Canada is not immune.

And I already know there is no legal way for DH to take his gun into Canada. We've been to Canada many times via the bridge between the two Sault Ste. Marie cities. The border patrol has always looked at our driver's licenses (then our passports when they started requiring those), asked us a couple questions and waved us through. So, we probably could leave his gun in the camper on the assumption that they would not search the camper and could "get away with it." But we aren't going to do that. We take our CCP seriously and wouldn't do something that could jeopardize that right being taken away.

But even though you say Canada doesn't have mass shootings it still could happen and we would prefer to be prepared to protect ourselves. Also, there are bears and wolves in Canada just as there are in Michigan. We would prefer to be able to protect ourselves from those as well.

I would hate to see what would happen to your husband if he tried to shoot wildlife with an illegal concealed weapon in Canada. In a campground. Yes that would go well.

 

[Magpie]

So, how about them Cubs?

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Perhaps I am mistaken, but I definitely do not envision a piece of lethal metal when listening to this song.

Holy crap! That didn't once occur to me. Now I gotta go listen to it again.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

There is absolutely no comparison to the US and any other country for mass shootings. It is an American phenomenon.

I didn't say it was non existent.

Here are some stats on mass killings:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/world/americas/mass-shootings-us-international.html

__________________
Listen you said "first of all mass shootings are an American phenomenon."

I said it has also happened in Canada as well as "Now yes the number isn't near what the U.S. has had but it still has had them."

I wasn't making the comparison between the U.S. and Canada. You were. I already know and fully get that the U.S. has had more than Canada. But appearantly you are under the impression that gun violence has never happened at all in Canada (it sure came off that way). And let's be honest gun violence in the form of shooting people and either injurying them or killing them is not confined to the borders of the U.S.

Good lord no one is saying it doesn't happen in the U.S.-that's one thing you won't hear denial from a U.S. citizen. Also do understand that in order to fully grasp the understand of numbers you need to know 1) the definition of mass shooting the person is using as there is no legal definition of one 2) are they including gang violence, home invasions and domestic issues within those numbers. Context is key. I read a BBC article that was discussing the gun-related deaths.

In that article it discusses a magazine (Mother Jones) that did some legwork. They used the definition of 4 or more killed by the attacker but excluded shootings stemming from more conventional crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. From 1982-present there have been 94 mass shootings and that is not anything to downplay whatshoever but it is a far cry from the "one for everyday of the year" talk that the media likes to present.

Also more people die by suicide than mass shootings...like a lot more. According to the BBC article in the U.S. in 2014 21,386 died from suicide, 11,008 homicides which included 14 from mass shootings and then 1,200 from other (included accidental or war casualties). Now that speaks to mental health of course but a person in Canada has the opportunity to shoot themselves with their gun just the same as a person in the U.S. According to 2009 review a 10-year look showed the majority however in Canada did so by hanging rather than using a gun.

 

[Magpie]

By the way, this is actually a t-shirt...

https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/1779846-stupid-judy

I want one!

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

__________________
Listen you said "first of all mass shootings are an American phenomenon."

I said it has also happened in Canada as well as "Now yes the number isn't near what the U.S. has had but it still has had them."

I wasn't making the comparison between the U.S. and Canada. You were. I already know and fully get that the U.S. has had more than Canada. But appearantly you are under the impression that gun violence has never happened at all in Canada (it sure came off that way). And let's be honest gun violence in the form of shooting people and either injurying them or killing them is not confined to the borders of the U.S.

Good lord no one is saying it doesn't happen in the U.S.-that's one thing you won't hear denial from a U.S. citizen. Also do understand that in order to fully grasp the understand of numbers you need to know 1) the definition of mass shooting the person is using as there is no legal definition of one 2) are they including gang violence, home invasions and domestic issues within those numbers. Context is key. I read a BBC article that was discussing the gun-related deaths.

In that article it discusses a magazine (Mother Jones) that did some legwork. They used the definition of 4 or more killed by the attacker but excluded shootings stemming from more conventional crimes such as armed robbery or gang violence. From 1982-present there have been 94 mass shootings and that is not anything to downplay whatshoever but it is a far cry from the "one for everyday of the year" talk that the media likes to present.

Also more people die by suicide than mass shootings...like a lot more. According to the BBC article in the U.S. in 2014 21,386 died from suicide, 11,008 homicides which included 14 from mass shootings and then 1,200 from other (included accidental or war casualties). Now that speaks to mental health of course but a person in Canada has the opportunity to shoot themselves with their gun just the same as a person in the U.S. According to 2009 review a 10-year look showed the majority however in Canada did so by hanging rather than using a gun.

Where did you get the impression that I thought Canada was immune to gun violence? Mass shootings by mentally ill (mostly) white men are routine in the US. It's a fact.

 

[Hikergirl]

I'm not going to trade insults with you. I will let your posts speak for themselves. Have a great day!

That is OK, you've got your insults in on responsible gun owners in this thread, you can move to your next one.

 

[bcla]

I would hate to see what would happen to your husband if he tried to shoot wildlife with an illegal concealed weapon in Canada. In a campground. Yes that would go well.

That happened in California although the weapon was legal and openly carried. The bear actually slashed at him and he shot at the bear with the .45 he was carrying. In a campground where it could have hit another camper. The reason why the bear was there was that he set a cooler with food on top of his campsite’s picnic table and left it there overnight. He covered the table with one of those tent covers, but that’s not going to keep out a bear. This wasn’t a place where bears break into cars, but they had bear boxes anyways.

http://www.mtdemocrat.com/archived-stories/Bear_attacks_camper_at_Union_Valley/

There really was no need to shoot at it. And improper food storage was the reason the bear came.

 

[Hikergirl]

Wow, really? Someone argues with you and that means they've either got blinkers on or they're stupid? No other possibility?

I disagree with you on many points and we've argued a lot, and you certainly have no intention of abandoning some of your stances and saying, "Gee, Magpie, you're right and I was wrong!" but I still wouldn't call you stupid or blind. I don't think anybody on this board, regardless of their stance on any issue, is either of those things. Well... no more than I am, anyway. I'm not volunteering to abandon any of my fervently held beliefs, either.

Please don't let this conversation degrade to, "Well, you're STUPID!" That'll just get it locked, and all our fun will be over.

Yes really, what I said was between myself and that poster. You don't have to agree with it, or like it but I'm not going to apologize or not call her out in this thread.

And interesting that your assumption was that she fell into the "stupid" group.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Where did you get the impression that I thought Canada was immune to gun violence? Mass shootings by mentally ill (mostly) white men are routine in the US. It's a fact.

Routine? Define routine.

 

[Magpie]

That happened in California although the weapon was legal and openly carried. The bear actually slashed at him and he shot at the bear with the .45 he was carrying. In a campground where it could have hit another camper. The reason why the bear was there was that he set a cooler with food on top of his campsite’s picnic table and left it there overnight. He covered the table with one of those tent covers, but that’s not going to keep out a bear. This wasn’t a place where bears break into cars, but they had bear boxes anyways.

http://www.mtdemocrat.com/archived-stories/Bear_attacks_camper_at_Union_Valley/

There really was no need to shoot at it. And improper food storage was the reason the bear came.

"The man went out with a .45 caliber pistol to try to scare the bear away, but the bear charged him, knocked him down and scratched his face."

I'm thinking the real problem here is that the bear didn't look at the man and go, "Oh no, he has a gun!"

Darn those bears and their lack of respect for firearms.

Also, an airhorn would have worked just as well, or better. Going camping in bear country? Lock up your food and carry bear spray and/or an airhorn (in addition to any guns you might bring for hunting). Meet a black bear? Make yourself as big and noisy as you can, and don't leave a position of safety, if you don't have to.

Yes really, what I said was between myself and that poster. You don't have to agree with it, or like it but I'm not going to apologize or not call her out in this thread.

It's never just between the two of you when it's on a public board. If you're going to start calling people "stupid", and you don't want other people getting involved, then take it to private message.