Carbon and Cruising

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I haven’t heard any reasonable opinions to the contrary. I’ve heard other countries are worse. I’ve heard that if I’m going to stop cruising I should stop doing everything else that uses any carbon footprint. I heard my friends are toxic for even bringing this up. I’ve heard don’t cruise. Someone also mentioned socialism, which kind of blows my mind. Now, I’m hearing that I obviously have low self esteem for even hearing them out. At the end of the day, I haven’t heard anything reasonable as a response.

I offered an option, back on page two.

I'd say, "Look, I've heard you, and I know the issues. However, we need to figure out what vacation works for our family best as we can at this time, and I'd appreciate it if you stopped bringing it up constantly."

If that's not reasonable, I'm not sure what you're looking for. Nobody here is going to argue that cruising is GOOD for the environment. A few of us have linked to sources talking about how, while cruising isn't great, if you're going to cruise, Disney is at the head of the pack in terms of working towards a better environmental footprint and negating the damage they do. It definitely made me feel better about having paid the $$$ to cruise with them. Whether it's enough for you and/or your friends, I don't know.
 
I haven’t heard any reasonable opinions to the contrary. I’ve heard other countries are worse. I’ve heard that if I’m going to stop cruising I should stop doing everything else that uses any carbon footprint. I heard my friends are toxic for even bringing this up. I’ve heard don’t cruise. Someone also mentioned socialism, which kind of blows my mind. Now, I’m hearing that I obviously have low self esteem for even hearing them out. At the end of the day, I haven’t heard anything reasonable as a response.

Sounds to me like you need a cruise. Enjoy have fun.
 
Source https://www.womenshealthmag.com/relationships/a25939904/signs-of-toxic-friendships/

13 Signs You're In A Toxic Friendship—And How To GTFO
Friends are allowed to make mistakes—at least, that's what you thought when your BFF forgot your birthday. But then she flaked on you again last week. She lied to you last month. And she's just plain disappointed you so many times recently that you've lost count.

If you're starting to feel like your "bestie" is no longer the best thing for you, chances are you're in a toxic friendship.

These kind of friendships have a tendency to sneak up on people because the signs are often subtle. But generally, a toxic friendship "emotionally harms you, rather than helping you," says clinical psychologist Andrea Bonior, Ph.D., author of The Friendship Fix: The Complete Guide to Choosing, Losing, and Keeping Up With Your Friends and the "Baggage Check" column.

You can tell a friend is toxic when they "cause stress and sadness or anxiety," she continues, and "doesn't help you be who you want to be." And if all that weren't enough, a toxic friendship can also drain you and make you doubt yourself.

So yeah... it's the worst. But while the definition of a toxic friendship is pretty clear, it's not always easy to spot IRL.

Don't stress—these signs will tell you if you're dealing with a toxic friend:

1. You’re giving more than you’re getting.
If your friend always seems to need your help, but can’t return even the smallest favor, then chances are they’re toxic. You can tell, Bonior says, when "there's a big imbalance between what you're giving and what you're getting." Case in point: that friend who always monopolizes the conversation with what's going on in her life, but as soon as it's time to talk about you, suddenly remembers that she just has to be somewhere.

How to Fix a Broken Friendship—and When Not To
Of course, Bonior doesn’t advise dumping a friend who’s not able to be there for you all the time, especially if they’re going through a tough time themselves. "It's important that we understand that friendships be flexible," she explains. "… But if the pattern is so ingrained that you always feel like you're giving, giving, giving, and there's no reciprocity over a long period of time—that's a sign that it's not gonna be very sustainable."

2. You no longer trust them.
Friendships are built on trust. After all, if you can’t rely on your BFF, what’s the point of having one? So, Bonior says, "If you don't trust that they have your best interests in mind... that's often a sign that something's not working." For example, a toxic friend might say "they’ll pick you up at the airport and then back out at the last minute," according to clinical psychologist Jill Squyres, Ph.D. Granted, sometimes people have to break promises for a legit reason, and that’s totally fair. But if "you constantly feel let down by them… it's gonna be hard for you to have the level of affection for them that could truly keep a good friendship going."

3. You dread checking your phone.
Technology has made it so easy to keep up with your friends—for better or, uh, worse. You’ll know it’s the second option "when the person calls or texts you [and] you feel a dread in the pit of your stomach instead of happiness," says Squyres. A good friend shouldn’t make you freak out whenever your phone buzzes, so it’s probably time to hit that "Do Not Disturb" button.

4. You don’t enjoy spending time with them.
If you did a happy dance the last time they cancelled plans, it’s probably because you’re tired of putting in more work than the friendship is worth. "It feels more draining; it feels like a chore," Bonior says. You also might notice "an increase in anxiety, headaches, or stomach disturbance when you’re with her," according to clinical psychologist and author Elizabeth Lombardo, Ph.D.

5. You don't like yourself when you're with them.
A toxic friend has a knack for spreading their toxicity to others, according to Bonior. "When you're with that person, they bring out behaviors in you that aren't your best," she explains. Maybe you're drinking too much, gossiping, or being passive-aggressive with them when you're normally super-chill. Those are all signs, she says, of a toxic friendship.

Or you might feel like you can't be your realest self around them because you "consistently fear... how the other person will react" and "feel like you're walking on eggshells" around them, says Lombardo. Basically, she adds, if "you feel lousy about yourself most of the time, then it may be toxic."

6. You know they talk sh*t about you.
While “there's a spectrum of talking about people behind their back,” according to Bodior, if your friendship is starting to resemble an episode of the Real Housewives, it’s probably toxic. The key, she says, is knowing if your friend is speaking out of genuine concern for your best interests or not. “It's one thing for some friends to be like, 'You know, I really don't like that guy Shelly's dating. He seems like a jerk, and I'm concerned about it,” Bodior explains. “Once it launches into 'Oh my god, Shelly always dates the dumbest guys,' and [they’re] kind of laughing about it and making fun of her—that really veers into cruelty.”

7. You compete with them.
There’s nothing wrong with a little healthy competition between friends—emphasis on the little. This is especially true if you happen to be in the same field or have kids at the same time, Bonior notes, "but at the end of the day, you should still have good feelings toward your friend and want what's best for them overall." While it’s totally normal to feel jealous from time to time, if you feel like you’re in "a constant fight that you want to win over and over again," that can be toxic.

8. You don’t think they have good intentions.
Even the best of friends are nowhere near perfect (obvs), but they always have good intentions. And that makes a big difference. "Whenever we make mistakes in a friendship, that's when the intention really matters," Bonior notes. While a good friend might accidentally hurt you when her intentions were good, "that's a lot easier to forgive" than when a toxic friend intentionally hurts you.

9. You can’t depend on their advice.
Life can be confusing AF. That’s why we need good friends to help figure it out. But when you ask for a friend’s advice and instantly regret it, that could mean they’re toxic. "They're not gonna listen, and [they’re] not going to be terribly empathetic or compassionate," says Squyres. "…If they do listen, it's usually to give one-sided advice that makes them sound smart or more competent and successful than you." Often, a toxic friend will insist on an expensive or impractical fix "where you feel like you have to agree" even though you know it’s not realistic.

10. You’re embarrassed by their behavior toward others.
One of those most common complaints Squyres hears about toxic friends is that they’re "rude to people you care about," like your partner, your other friends, and even your kids. Or when you're out together at a restaurant, "the person makes a lot of trouble, embarrasses you, demands things that you don't think are reasonable, and sort of drags you along," she adds. Even if they’re nice to you, at a certain point, their friendship isn’t worth the trouble it causes in your other relationships.

11. You make excuses for them.
When a friend is known for their bad behavior, they put you into the uncomfortable position of justifying their actions to others—and that’s toxic. This most often happens, Squyres says, when someone introduces a new friend to an old one. The new friend might later point out that the old friend ignored or interrupted her, prompting the main friend to say, "Oh, you just don't really know her. She's really very nice." Sure, Jan…

12. You feel used.
One sign of a toxic friend, Lombardo says, is "manipulation or making you do things you don’t want to do." Often, a friend can manipulate you into making an agreement that seems fair but really isn’t. According to Squyres, a toxic friend is "always insisting on splitting the check… when they spend a lot more" on food and drinks. You know it isn’t fair, but you go along with it to preserve the relationship.

13. You don't know why you're friends with them.
Once upon a time, you two were inseparable. But now, you feel like you're on two different planets. While your priorities evolved and changed over the years, your friendship—not so much. "Just because you have a history with this person doesn’t mean you need to have a future together," says Lombardo. "...You are not responsible for this person’s happiness, and you will not be able to change them (no matter how much you wish you could)."

So there's no doubt about it: you're friend is toxic. Now, what?
If you're not sure whether you should end the friendship, Squyres suggests first talking to other people to get a "reality check" on the relationship. An outsider's opinion can draw your attention to red flags you didn't notice or have brushed under the rug.

"You could also try setting limits with this person," Squyres adds. She did this herself with a friend who would always monopolized the conversation whenever they talked on the phone. Whenever that happened, she would just say, "I need to hang up now"—and she would actually do it.

Lombardo agrees and adds that once you "establish boundaries, stick with them." If you have a friend who's always calling you and begging you to bend over backward to help with her projects, tell her you can't—every time.

When you're just #overit, you can "slow fade" out of the friendship, says Bonior. "That's the easiest, most comfortable way to extract yourself," she explains. But, it "only works when both parties recognize what's happening, and both parties take a step back naturally."

If your toxic friend has no clue that they're radioactive, they might push back harder, get offended, become accusatory, or just totally miss the hint, cautions Bonior. So, "if you have to be more direct, you have to be more direct," she continues. "Nobody wants to do this— it's totally awkward—but sometimes... you just have to be clear." She recommends saying something neutral yet firm, such as: "Hey, I know you've noticed that I haven't been able to spend as much time with you lately. To be honest, my life's moving in a different direction. I value the friendship that we've had, but I just don't see being able to spend as much time together."

Best case scenario, they accept your decision, "but in a really toxic relationship, all bets are off," says Bonior. "The person could start a huge argument, and when that's the case, all you owe to that person is just be clear about what you're doing. You can be respectful, but you gotta be firm." To stay firm, she recommends going into this conversation with a clear sense of what you want to get out of it.

This will help you keep your emotions in check if it starts getting into a confrontation. When that happens, all you have to say is,"This discussion is upsetting to me. I've told you where I stand. I'm not going to be able to spend much time with you in the future. I am not going to be in touch."

At that point, both Bonior and Squyres say you have the right to cut the toxic friend off. "You can't have a constructive conversation with this person, so the ordinary rules of engagement no longer apply," Squyres says. "You just need to exit as gracefully as you can and just realize that's your answer."
 
5. You don't like yourself when you're with them.
..."When you're with that person, they bring out behaviors in you that aren't your best,"...

The one I pulled out is actually a great example of not being a toxic friend. The OP's friends are doing the exact opposite of this it sounds and giving a suggestion to make them better in their minds. A toxic friend to the OP would be one encouraging them to go on the cruise instead of exploring the thoughts that are now in their head about the environmental impact.

You going to go to Cosmo next?

Can you at least try to explain why you might think either of the two full articles you posted makes any sense to you applying to the current subject?
 

If, instead of saying that 'cruising is bad for the environment', your friends had said 'you could use that money you paid for the cruise to donate to an environmental (or homeless, etc) charity', would you also feel guilty?

Yes, you can always do more financially - for the poor, for animal rescue, for the environment. But at what point does it stop being wholy your responsibility? Do you need to give all wholy to the cause? Can you not do your best in places in your life and then enjoy yourself in the way you want, too? That's why I mentioned China and iphones. Why are the cruises terrible to you, but not the iphones? Landlines still exist.

Your friends' children probably found something out and mentioned it and now you feel like you need to take action or at least not be a participant. But you enjoy cruising and want to cruise. So should you? I think you're beating yourself up, not becoming a better person. You alone aren't going to solve the world's problems. That's not to say you shouldn't do your best, but you have to enjoy your life, too. Make changes where you can, then recognise, like the iphone, there are things you want in your life and we, as a society will get there. Change has happened and is happening. You are part of it, but you don't have to be a martyr to it.
 
I haven’t heard any reasonable opinions to the contrary. I’ve heard other countries are worse. I’ve heard that if I’m going to stop cruising I should stop doing everything else that uses any carbon footprint. I heard my friends are toxic for even bringing this up. I’ve heard don’t cruise. Someone also mentioned socialism, which kind of blows my mind. Now, I’m hearing that I obviously have low self esteem for even hearing them out. At the end of the day, I haven’t heard anything reasonable as a response.

Please outline your parameters for all the reasonable opinions you're seeking. Because the majority of posts on this thread are reasonable. They just aren't what you're looking for.
 
I haven’t heard any reasonable opinions to the contrary. I’ve heard other countries are worse. I’ve heard that if I’m going to stop cruising I should stop doing everything else that uses any carbon footprint. I heard my friends are toxic for even bringing this up. I’ve heard don’t cruise. Someone also mentioned socialism, which kind of blows my mind. Now, I’m hearing that I obviously have low self esteem for even hearing them out. At the end of the day, I haven’t heard anything reasonable as a response.

The reasonable response is that your family enjoys cruising, and you are going on one.

The boat is going whether you are on it or not.
 
If the OP seeks a "reasonable" answer, perhaps the OP should look at their portion of the carbon "cost" of the cruise, and then identify if they have offset that via their own efforts already, or can they reasonably do so in the future?

If the answer to that is yes, they have or they can, then go on the cruise, and enjoy it, and don't worry about it. Inform your friends that you aren't adding to the problem.

If the answer to that is no, and they reasonably can't or won't, then it is up to the OP - and no one - else to decide if they wish to cruise.

And that's it; That's all. It doesn't have to be overcomplicated, and it doesn't have to be full of drama.
 
I haven’t heard any reasonable opinions to the contrary. I’ve heard other countries are worse. I’ve heard that if I’m going to stop cruising I should stop doing everything else that uses any carbon footprint. I heard my friends are toxic for even bringing this up. I’ve heard don’t cruise. Someone also mentioned socialism, which kind of blows my mind. Now, I’m hearing that I obviously have low self esteem for even hearing them out. At the end of the day, I haven’t heard anything reasonable as a response.

You only have one life; either live it to the fullest or rely on others to tell you how to live it. You should look up the history of socialism; it's not pretty.
 
I do have solar panels on my house. And I used half the power they generated last month.
You should look into how those panels are rarely recyclable and the dangerous mining that has to occur to find the components for them. (For example, this 2018 Forbes article: If Solar Panels Are So Clean, Why Do They Produce So Much Toxic Waste?)
 
In our case, nobody has ever harassed us, but friends have shared news reports about the issues with cruising just like they share a thousand other things. One asked what I thought about it, mainly to find out if I thought the article was legit or if I thought it was hyperbole. (In this case, it was, in the words of Star Lord "a bit of both") Nobody I've known has been trying to manipulate people for funsies. These are issues I care about and that my friends care about, just like a lot of other issues. We all try to live our best lives and that means taking stock of what we step on when we walk the earth.
 
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