Carbon and Cruising

[Cruising Engineer]

Don't be guilted on a con job. The atmosphere has been changing and evolving since this rock entered the orbit around this sun. The ozone hole (south pole) is the smallest since measurements began in 1982 (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...is-the-smallest-on-record-since-its-discovery) and it was from the abnormally warm atmosphere especially in the stratosphere. Did the news announce it? Of course not. It would mean the banning of CFCs worked and warmer atmosphere aided in the closing of the hole to a much smaller diameter.

They have to keep you in fear and under control.

Flipping carbon is how Al Gore and his Canadian business partner made millions.
(https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryb...-on-anti-carbon-investment-hype/#46d4661c32dc) .

They have to keep you in fear and under control.

No one intimidates me. Enjoy your cruise.

 

[Numtini]

The atmosphere has been changing and evolving since this rock entered the orbit around this sun. The ozone hole (south pole) is the smallest since measurements began in 1982 (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddar...is-the-smallest-on-record-since-its-discovery) and it was from the abnormally warm atmosphere especially in the stratosphere. Did the news announce it? Of course not.

The news has covered it. It's a fantastic story about how people saw a problem, enacted global bans on the chemicals causing it, and the damage started to right itself.

Disney is at least trying to make things better. The new ships use LNG. They are eliminating single use plastics. And they are trying, within the limitations of the real world, to operate sustainable resorts for Castaway and Lighthouse point. But yeah, if you're an adult and not sticking your fingers in your ears and humming loud, there are major issues with cruising. There's issues with a lot of other things we all do. What we can try to do is make them better. Think about what we're doing. And encourage the decisions makers in board rooms to be aware of what's going on.

 

[FigmentSpark]

But they’re not wrong. That’s where the guilt comes from. Their point is valid. This is different than arguing Disney is only for kids. They have a legit argument. My stance would be that I don’t care, so I’m going to do it. That comes across as really childish.

As for the manipulation, it’s really no different then your parents telling you that smoking is bad for you. It’s a fact. Do you smoke in protest?

What’s a reasonable response?

Aren't they wrong? What are they not wrong about and compared to what? Another poster made a huge point that may have slid by. iphones... heck mobile phones are all made where? China. Most of what you buy has been outsourced to China or other South Asian countries. These places pollute more than you or any cruise could ever achieve. They have to wear masks in China because of the smog. Do they need to cut their carbon output? No. Because you have to cut yours. Why is that? You know a leaky house will still be leaky until all the holes are plugged, not just some of them.

So, do you and your friends have cell phones? Computers? Nikes? That would make you part of the problem right there.

Clearly this is about what you value and how you prioritize. Is living austerely and "doing your part" more important to you than the experiences and memories you will have on the cruise with your family? Is it more important than enjoying your life? I don't mean you shouldn't care, we are, afterall stewards of the earth, but this is our home, too. It's great to do what you can. That should be a priority for people whether there is a climate issue or not. But should it be the number one priority over everything? That is where the conflict arises.

Your friends are telling you that you're not a good enough person because you aren't putting the earth above your own desires to live and enjoy your life. And now, you can't see why that's not a good argument. So here's the question. Is humanity a virus or parasite on the earth? If so, why do we cherish humanity? Why are there human rights? Why are we allowed the right of proliferation? Why hasn't a world government come together to ban human expansion, limit population and end planet exploitation? For that matter, why are only some countries required to cut their carbon emmissions while others are happily causing more carbon damage than ever before?

If you don't think of humanity as a virus, but as part of the circle of life on this planet and with a role to play (as stewards of the earth), then you begin to see things a little differently. You do what you can, but sometimes you don't. You live. You love. You prioritize the people in your life, rather than become enslaved to avoiding everything unnecessary to sustain yourself.

One final thing for everyone who pays a carbon offset... where does that money go and where is the report telling us how much it's made any difference? Funny how 'climate change' didn't take off until someone found a way to make a lot of money off it.

 

[mostlytraveling4food]

How are you guys dealing with this conversation?

Lately, it’s coming up a lot with my friends. While I had a great cruise on the Fantasy, my friends tell me that cruise ships are terrible for the environment. I really want to do an Alaska cruise next year, but now I feel guilty about it.

Is Disney doing anything to become more carbon neutral with their new ships? Is this even on their radar?

It’s ridiculous that you feel guilty.

I didn’t even know carbon shaming is a thing, and it’s usually done by someone enjoying a lot of luxuries, yours just happens to be a cruise.

 

[mevelandry]

The reality is that the compromising got us into this mess. I saw the ice melt first hand with my friends in Iceland. That makes it more real.

Finding a compelling reason to compromise is tough. I honestly didn’t think about this stuff when I took my first cruise. It’s far more real now.

I wish Disney would make an effort to become more carbon neutral.

I’m conflicted.

For what it's worth, when it comes to respecting the law and the environment, DCL have one of the best scores (if they are not the best).

They are doing more and more efforts every year. I'm not sure what kind of efforts you are looking for.

 

[MillauFr]

I didn’t even know carbon shaming is a thing, and it’s usually done by someone enjoying a lot of luxuries, yours just happens to be a cruise.

It is here.

Your social status in Seattle is directly inverted to your carbon footprint. The Platinum level residents have the lowest carbon footprint. They get the best services from the city. We get to book the cabanas at the beach in the Summer and fine dining restaurants before others. The Silver level residents have the highest carbon footprint. They are last in line to book. They don't have a chance of renting the cabanas at the beach.

 

[DCLCrazy64622]

How are you guys dealing with this conversation?

Lately, it’s coming up a lot with my friends. While I had a great cruise on the Fantasy, my friends tell me that cruise ships are terrible for the environment. I really want to do an Alaska cruise next year, but now I feel guilty about it.

Is Disney doing anything to become more carbon neutral with their new ships? Is this even on their radar?

Tell them to mind their own business and to look to the climate change king, Leo Decaprio who uses private planes to preach to us and owns mansions that waste tons of electricity. Climate change is a religion. To those who disagree, don’t bother to argue with me about it. I’m not responding.

 

[DCLCrazy64622]

It is here.

Your social status in Seattle is directly inverted to your carbon footprint. The Platinum level residents have the lowest carbon footprint. They get the best services from the city. We get to book the cabanas at the beach in the Summer and fine dining restaurants before others. The Silver level residents have the highest carbon footprint. They are last in line to book. They don't have a chance of renting the cabanas at the beach.

That’s ridiculous. How do the said services even know what your “carbon footprint” is? Is there a card you carry or something? What a horrible way to live. It’s a caste system.

 

[Adventurelawyer]

That’s ridiculous. How do the said services even know what your “carbon footprint” is? Is there a card you carry or something? What a horrible way to live. It’s a caste system.

It was sarcasm. Using the DCL loyalty system to demonstrate the perks of climate cult adherence.
But I did read that they go through your garbage in Seattle and if you haven’t adequately sorted or composted properly, you can get fined. Might be an urban legend. “They” might be a Squatch. Not really sure.

 

[MillauFr]

That’s ridiculous. How do the said services even know what your “carbon footprint” is? Is there a card you carry or something? What a horrible way to live. It’s a caste system.

I don't mind it too much since our family is rated platinum by the city. After they found out we get to Hawaii by taking our solar power catamaran we were a lock for top level status.

 

[MillauFr]

But I did read that they go through your garbage in Seattle and if you haven’t adequately sorted or composted properly, you can get fined.

Yes I'm sure we made the national news on that one. They actually did pass some law threatening to fine people if they dumped food waste in garbage rather than compost. Just another goofy law that is completely unenforced. We do have a trash problem as all of the landfills in Western Washington are full. Seattle has to haul its garbage to a landfill in Central Oregon 450 miles away. They have 100+ car trains that leave several times a week to haul it there.

 

[DCLCrazy64622]

It was sarcasm. Using the DCL loyalty system to demonstrate the perks of climate cult adherence.
But I did read that they go through your garbage in Seattle and if you haven’t adequately sorted or composted properly, you can get fined. Might be an urban legend. “They” might be a Squatch. Not really sure.

Oh sorry. That did transfer.

 

[Adventurelawyer]

Yes I'm sure we made the national news on that one. They actually did pass some law threatening to fine people if they dumped food waste in garbage rather than compost. Just another goofy law that is completely unenforced. We do have a trash problem as all of the landfills in Western Washington are full. Seattle has to haul its garbage to a landfill in Central Oregon 450 miles away. They have 100+ car trains that leave several times a week to haul it there.

So no Sasquatches in this one. Hmmmm the truth is out there.

 

[sethschroeder]

I am not here to tell anyone they are wrong for going on a cruise. I just went on one myself. I personally think as a couple others have eluded to that you should talk with your friends about how you enjoy cruising, understand its not great for the environment, but are supporting one of the lines who is trying as a whole company to make a difference with the environment.

I say I am not perfect, there are certain things I just want to do, but I try to make up for it by supporting the correct companies when doing so.

Your friends are very wrong for making you feel guilty about how and where you vacation.

Actually thats how things change. Should your friends also be quiet if you make improper jokes about others or have a 1950's attitude towards women in your workplace? Friends should improve your life and help make you a better person. Now the argument can be made if this is positive change or not but I am not here to try and convince people the environment needs saving or not.

I have no time for the cool trendy environmental groups and activists in 2019. I'm sure many of the ones who are jumping on the bandwagon now in 2019 called me a freak in 1992.

It is great you helped get things started but each new generation is going to continue to evolve and move forward society with how they deal with things (environment, social issues, pay, healthcare).

These are the same folks who wear vegan shoes around while screaming about carbon and the danger petroleum causes. Guess what vegan shoes are made of? Petroleum. Until these people start walking everywhere barefooted and Leo gives up his private plane, I'll hop on the cruise ship and suck down my mojitos with zulu foxtrot given.

Except here is the thing. If the normal person actually wants to do something you need to support what limited options there are that show companies that consumers want to be pro-environment. Yes electric cars may be worse in the short run for the environment but long term if the need/requirement is there then someone will find a new battery type that is cleaner, can be recycled, and is lower impact. Possibly also finding ways to leverage the current gen batteries.

Disney has made many initiatives to be more environmentally friendly. Meanwhile, we have cities in other countries where you can’t even walk around anymore because of the constant smog. You have cities that are so far off the charts in terms of air quality that it cannot even continue to be compared with the rest of the world.

This is the proper way to approach it in my eyes. Outline that Disney is making steps and you are supporting a company that is trying to lead towards a better environmental impact. That doesn't happen over night.

Do they need to cut their carbon output? No. Because you have to cut yours. Why is that? You know a leaky house will still be leaky until all the holes are plugged, not just some of them.

So, do you and your friends have cell phones? Computers? Nikes? That would make you part of the problem right there.

So someone has to be completely perfect prior to talking about imperfection? Things will not change and companies will not move away from China manufacturing as an example unless people choose to speak up and pay premiums on products produced in responsible ways.

I also would say its much easier to skip a cruise than to forgo a cell phone or computer in todays society. I would view a cell phone and computer as requirements of everyday life in a 1st world country while a cruise (albeit amazing from the one I had so far) is very much a luxury that could be replaced with other vacation options.

Your friends are telling you that you're not a good enough person because you aren't putting the earth above your own desires to live and enjoy your life.

Except all we really know is the topic was brought up that cruising is bad for the environment a couple times. I think you as well as many others are going way overboard with your reaction when for all we know its brought up in passing a couple times. The OP also sounds like they have surrounded themselves with very like minded people. Its likely guilt is less so because of the friends and more so because the OP actually has feeling that its not something they want to support even though they enjoy it.

Wouldn't bother me if someone brought up something that I didn't have anything feelings for. If my friend makes a good point thats when it hits home though. Seems to be what is happening here to the OP but only they know how this all has played out with their friends.

 

[MillauFr]

Things will not change and companies will not move away from China manufacturing as an example unless people choose to speak up and pay premiums on products produced in responsible ways.

Except with Disney souvenirs we pay premium prices for some cheap plastic junk made in China.

 

[sethschroeder]

Except with Disney souvenirs we pay premium prices for some cheap plastic junk made in China.

Yup Disney is not perfect by a long shot.

 

[RamblingMad]

I think I’m simply going to ask them to suggest to me alternative cruise-lines that they think are more carbon neutral.

What surprised me the last time I spoke with them was that it was their kids that brought it to their attention.

Have your kids pushed back on cruising over the last year?

 

[T & R]

Have your kids pushed back on cruising over the last year?

Are you being serious or are you just messing with everybody on here? Your username is dead on accurate.

.

 

[ahain]

The reality is that the compromising got us into this mess. I saw the ice melt first hand with my friends in Iceland. That makes it more real.

Finding a compelling reason to compromise is tough. I honestly didn’t think about this stuff when I took my first cruise. It’s far more real now.

I wish Disney would make an effort to become more carbon neutral.

I’m conflicted.

Sounds to me like you shouldn't cruise (or fly) if it causes you this much stress.

 

[Numtini]

Have your kids pushed back on cruising over the last year?

We've had that conversation. She actually is more concerned about how the staff are treated.