Canon vs Nikon

[justjulie]

My son is about to start college in a photography program and we are about to invest in his camera - any thoughts on Canon vs. Nikon would be greatly appreciated from those of you in the know (because, LOL, my experience with a point and shoot camera is useless in this situation).

The college is flexible - Canon or Nikon but they must have a 50mm (f2.8) lens and a hot mount flash. The light meter, tripod, etc. are available on loan from the college Loans Department.

Many thanks for your help.

 

[zackiedawg]

For learning photography, it doesn't matter at all - there's not a bad camera made today, all DSLRs have the same basic controls available, all work well in manual modes...I'd recommend that you find a local camera store, and have him handle each body to find out if one fits him better - for the basics of learning photography, ergonomics is probably the most important factor. Camera bodies do have different designs, and different grip sizes, and everybody has different hands and likes different feel - some like deeper grips, some like wider grips, some like smaller grips, etc.

The only other thing you might want to clarify with the school is whether they are recommending full-frame or APS-C sensor bodies. When you mention a 50mm F2.8 lens, the sensor size will make a difference in the equivalent focal length that will produce - on an APS-C sensor, it will give him an equivalent 75mm (Nikon) or 80mm (Canon) view...so if they want him to have a TRUE 50mm focal length, you'd want to go with a full-frame sensor, or to get closer with an APS-C camera you'd have to look for a 30-35mm lens. If the college is OK with APS-C crop sensors, then go to a store that stocks the entry-level bodies for each model and see which feel he likes more. If they want a full-frame camera only, then buying used will save a ton of money because full frame new cameras aren't cheap - and even a 5 year old full frame DSLR will give excellent results and provide a good learning tool.

 

[justjulie]

This is the generic response we received - any comments are welcome ...

We would love it if every student purchased a Canon 6D, Canon 5D MarkII or 5D MarkIII, or a Nikon D700 or D800, but we know that those are expensive.

If that is out of reach, here are my suggestions based on what’s currently available from Canon and Nikon...

Nikon: D300s, D90 or D7000,
Canon: EOS 7D, EOS 70D, EOS 60D, (not 60Da)

You really only need to purchase a camera body, and a 50mm lens (f/2.8) which is usually not very expensive. We have a large assortment of lenses available for sign out in our Photo Loans.

You should get a good tripod. Whats a good tripod? One that is light enough to carry, but heavy enough to keep your camera still. Make sure it has a "head" suitable for still photography, not a video head.

As for light meters. You'll need a handheld light meter, (sometimes called an exposure meter). It is used to measure the light falling on your subject. This helps you adjust the settings on your camera so that you get a good exposure. Its more accurate than your camera's built-in exposure meter. You’ll need one that will measure ambient (daylight) and flash. You might be able to find a used one.

Flashes are mandatory. You will have assignments/projects that require a hot-shoe mountable flash with auto and manual settings. We recommend dedicated flashes, that are the same brand as your camera. However, other companies make great flashes that will also work, they include Metz and Vivitar.

 

[havoc315]

This is the generic response we received - any comments are welcome ...

We would love it if every student purchased a Canon 6D, Canon 5D MarkII or 5D MarkIII, or a Nikon D700 or D800, but we know that those are expensive.

If that is out of reach, here are my suggestions based on what’s currently available from Canon and Nikon...

Nikon: D300s, D90 or D7000,
Canon: EOS 7D, EOS 70D, EOS 60D, (not 60Da)

You really only need to purchase a camera body, and a 50mm lens (f/2.8) which is usually not very expensive. We have a large assortment of lenses available for sign out in our Photo Loans.

You should get a good tripod. Whats a good tripod? One that is light enough to carry, but heavy enough to keep your camera still. Make sure it has a "head" suitable for still photography, not a video head.

As for light meters. You'll need a handheld light meter, (sometimes called an exposure meter). It is used to measure the light falling on your subject. This helps you adjust the settings on your camera so that you get a good exposure. Its more accurate than your camera's built-in exposure meter. You’ll need one that will measure ambient (daylight) and flash. You might be able to find a used one.

Flashes are mandatory. You will have assignments/projects that require a hot-shoe mountable flash with auto and manual settings. We recommend dedicated flashes, that are the same brand as your camera. However, other companies make great flashes that will also work, they include Metz and Vivitar.

So it's not as simple as Canon v. Nikon. In fact, you may find the Nikon D7000 to be more similar in a lof of ways to the Canon 60D, than to the Nikon D90. (As the D90 is a fairly old body).

So brand is far less important than the features you want/need.

So ask yourself how much you want to spend. How much do you want beyond the absolute basics. (Willing to spend more for a more advanced AF system? For better video features? For better low light performance? Willing to pay more for wifi?)

Then look at comparable cameras across brands. So it would be the Canon 60D vs the Nikon D7000. The 70d vs Nikon D7100, etc.

Here is an example comparing the Nikon D300s vs. D7100... showing how the newer consumer model stacks up against the older pro model:

http://www.photographyblog.com/news/nikon_d300s_vs_d7100_-_key_differences/

 

[photo_chick]

This is the generic response we received - any comments are welcome ...

We would love it if every student purchased a Canon 6D, Canon 5D MarkII or 5D MarkIII, or a Nikon D700 or D800, but we know that those are expensive.

If that is out of reach, here are my suggestions based on what’s currently available from Canon and Nikon...

Nikon: D300s, D90 or D7000,
Canon: EOS 7D, EOS 70D, EOS 60D, (not 60Da)

You really only need to purchase a camera body, and a 50mm lens (f/2.8) which is usually not very expensive. We have a large assortment of lenses available for sign out in our Photo Loans.

You should get a good tripod. Whats a good tripod? One that is light enough to carry, but heavy enough to keep your camera still. Make sure it has a "head" suitable for still photography, not a video head.

As for light meters. You'll need a handheld light meter, (sometimes called an exposure meter). It is used to measure the light falling on your subject. This helps you adjust the settings on your camera so that you get a good exposure. Its more accurate than your camera's built-in exposure meter. You’ll need one that will measure ambient (daylight) and flash. You might be able to find a used one.

Flashes are mandatory. You will have assignments/projects that require a hot-shoe mountable flash with auto and manual settings. We recommend dedicated flashes, that are the same brand as your camera. However, other companies make great flashes that will also work, they include Metz and Vivitar.

Funny... I'm about to graduate with a BFA in photography this May (I'm also a working professional) and this approach to equipment is a complete 180 from the programs I've been involved in. Is this a journalism program, a commercial program or a traditional art program? What does the student want to do photography wise after graduation? Knowing that would affect my idea about which camera would be most appropriate.

By the way... a photography degree is pretty much useless. Get some business classes or something in there as well because just studying photography will not get you a job. We joke at school that the only thing a BFA in photo is good for is applying for grad school. Sadly it's pretty much the truth.

 

[BirdsOfPreyDave]

I completely agree with Justin. There are differences between makes, but for the most part, they are negligable. What will be important is how the camera feels in his hands. Find a place where he can hold them and compare them side-by-side.

From the list the school has provided you, my advice would be to not get him a "starter camera" that he'll work his way up from. If you can afford it, that is! If he's really serious about this, and it sounds as if he is if he's going to major in it, start him out with a full frame camera rather than a crop camera. He's eventually going to move there anyway, and it's better not to have spent the same money twice.

I'm not recommending Canon over Nikon (don't want to start that debate ). Canon is what I use, and it's what I'm familiar with. So, if you were to go with Canon, here's what I'd recommend from the school's list:

Canon 5D Mark III ($3300)
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II lens ($99)
Canon Speedlite 600EX-RT ($450)

I'd also recommend the Canon BG-E11 battery grip ($275). Having this on the camera when he first starts to learn how to use it will be beneficial.

If the 5D breaks the bank, look at the 6D, which is a little cheaper ($1750), but still a full frame camera.

Don't go with a cheaper flash. The 600EX-RT is Canon's only flash that has a built-in radio unit. You can find cheaper Canon flashes that offer infrared remote control without a radio option, but I wouldn't recommend putting money into that older technology at this point.

Regardless of what the school says about lenses, don't be surprised if he's not hitting you up for a few lenses sooner than you might think. The 50mm may be all he needs for the course work, but it will be very limiting in real life.

 

[zackiedawg]

This is the generic response we received - any comments are welcome ...

We would love it if every student purchased a Canon 6D, Canon 5D MarkII or 5D MarkIII, or a Nikon D700 or D800, but we know that those are expensive.

If that is out of reach, here are my suggestions based on what’s currently available from Canon and Nikon...

Nikon: D300s, D90 or D7000,
Canon: EOS 7D, EOS 70D, EOS 60D, (not 60Da)

OK - that can make things cheaper and easier - they're OK with APS-C crop sensors. All they seem to want are cameras that maintain decent manual controls on the body, rather then hidden in the menus - it makes teaching photography basics easier. They're excluding some of the more basic entry-level models that might only have one control dial and a lot less direct control buttons, and are OK with older used bodies or models. Though Pentax and Sony make equally good bodies, the school has Canon and Nikon lenses and accessories available to use, so it's definitely best sticking with those two brands just to have the greatest access to the school's collection.

It's still going to come down to handling...your son should be comfortable with the camera. Canon is a best-seller, so obviously thousands are very happy with them, but I know from personal experience I cannot shoot comfortably with Canon's APS-C bodies as the grips are too small and shallow for my hands - Canon's pro bodies are much different, with much more substantial grips. Nikon does a little better for me in that regard - someone with a smaller hand might hate the Nikon grip or body. Check for used bodies at Amazon or KEH.com, or B&H...or you may find some 1-2 year old models that are still new and on closeout. You probably want to avoid the smallest entry-level Canons like the SL1, as it has fewer controls...and generally avoid the 3000 and 5000 series entry-level Nikons, which do not have focus motors in the body and won't autofocus with some Nikon lenses they may have at the school.

You really only need to purchase a camera body, and a 50mm lens (f/2.8) which is usually not very expensive. We have a large assortment of lenses available for sign out in our Photo Loans.

Indeed, 50mm lenses even up to to F1.7 or F1.8 apertures are usually pretty cheap and easy to get. I'd probably be looking at a 'nifty fifty' lens, which is a cheaper build 50mm lens with a faster F1.7 or F1.8 aperture, to give maximum flexibility.

 

[justjulie]

We are Canadian and our school system is quite different from the United States system. Up here, when you attend community college, you courses are pre-selected for you and here is what is included in the two-year Photography course:

Reason & Writing – Contemporary Media
Practical Photography 1
Intro to MAC OS & Applications
Creative Design for Photo 1
Production Techniques 1
Photography Science & Theory 1
Professional Communication – Visual Design
Practical Photography 2
Lighting Techniques
Creative Design for Photo 2
Production Techniques 2
Photography and the Arts
Marketing
Practical Photography 3
Commercial Photography
Digital Workflow
Production Techniques 3
General Education Elective
Field Placement
Small Business Management
Practical Photography 4
Portrait Photography
Photo Ethics & Issues
Presentation & Portfolio Development
Videography for Photographers
Field Placement

As you all know, photography equipment is not cheap and it is indeed an investment. He is trying to purchase the best equipment he can that will give him the best results on a student budget as residence costs are $7,100 on top of tuition and equipment costs. I agree he should purchase the best he can afford to avoid having to "spend money twice" but he cannot afford the best of the best at this time.

Any further input you have is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately for us, Amazon.com will not always ship to Canada and we have been told the warranty is voided once it crosses from the United States to Canada.

 

[SkaGoat]

I would take the list of suggested models, and go to Best Buy, Futureshop or Henry's (if you have one close) with your son, have him hold the cameras, and choose the one he likes handling the best.

They limit it to Nikon and Canon because the prof. doesn't want to have to learn how the AF, Meter and Flash System works on 5 different brands.

Don't completely rule out buying used gear either. I found a hardly used Canon 7D for $800 with 2 batts, and the grip. That's half what they go for new. Kijiji is a good place to look.

 

[justjulie]

My fear with Kijiji is that I wouldn't know if the camera was in optimal working order, the shutter count or if the camera had been properly cared for. I would hope that the Kijiji sellers are honest folks, but I've been caught travelling a long way for a "mint condition" item that wasn't so "mint" when I got there

 

[SkaGoat]

My fear with Kijiji is that I wouldn't know if the camera was in optimal working order, the shutter count or if the camera had been properly cared for. I would hope that the Kijiji sellers are honest folks, but I've been caught travelling a long way for a "mint condition" item that wasn't so "mint" when I got there

That was my fear as well! Especially buying a Canon (there is no easy way to find the shutter count, you have to use special, third party software on your computer to get shutter count).
I lucked out with mine, it was 2 yrs old (he had all the paperwork for extended warranty etc.), he told me it's shutter count was 40,000 (which for a 7D is less than half it's designed range), turned out to have a shutter count of 27,000.

If you look at the camera, and AF, and the meter appear to work properly, and it looks like it's been cared for (only minor scratches, no dents, or cracks), you're probably pretty safe buying it.

But if you can afford new, that's the way to go, just saying new isn't the only option, and lightly used can be a good bargain.

 

[SkaGoat]

I only know about Canon....

So if he likes how the Canon handles here is my suggestion.

Canon EOS 70D Camera- $1400
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II- $109

Affordable, current model, but very capable camera with all the bells and whistles (touch screen, wi-fi).

Your son will be able to get his career started with this camera, and if he decides he wants full frame later on, he can buy a new full frame camera, and use the 70D as his back up camera.

You end up paying 1/3rd less than a 6D, and less than half the price of a 5DmIII, and frankly, he won't notice the difference in IQ for a few years.

 

[DVC Mike]

I've used both Nikon and Cannon DSLR gear, and both companies have som great gear. I use a canon EOS 5D Mark III and love it. Before that, I had a nikon D7000. Both brands offer great gear.

 

[Daisy14'sDH]

To the OP, which college? Did he take any programs in High School? I'm a former Beal Art graduate that got a few good chances thanks to the program....

 

[photo_chick]

We are Canadian and our school system is quite different from the United States system. Up here, when you attend community college, you courses are pre-selected for you and here is what is included in the two-year Photography course:

Reason & Writing – Contemporary Media
Practical Photography 1
Intro to MAC OS & Applications
Creative Design for Photo 1
Production Techniques 1
Photography Science & Theory 1
Professional Communication – Visual Design
Practical Photography 2
Lighting Techniques
Creative Design for Photo 2
Production Techniques 2
Photography and the Arts
Marketing
Practical Photography 3
Commercial Photography
Digital Workflow
Production Techniques 3
General Education Elective
Field Placement
Small Business Management
Practical Photography 4
Portrait Photography
Photo Ethics & Issues
Presentation & Portfolio Development
Videography for Photographers
Field Placement

As you all know, photography equipment is not cheap and it is indeed an investment. He is trying to purchase the best equipment he can that will give him the best results on a student budget as residence costs are $7,100 on top of tuition and equipment costs. I agree he should purchase the best he can afford to avoid having to "spend money twice" but he cannot afford the best of the best at this time.

Any further input you have is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately for us, Amazon.com will not always ship to Canada and we have been told the warranty is voided once it crosses from the United States to Canada.

That sounds a lot like the 2 year community college tech programs in my area. It's a strict, prescribed program for an associates degree.

Being a 2 year program I would give serious consideration to life after graduation. It goes by fast and you don't want to buy something only to turn around in 2 years and have to buy something else.

The program looks like it's preparing students for a commercial/portrait photography career. If that is what he plans to pursue then I would strongly suggest investing in a professional level body now if at all possible. Anything less is really going to be a waste of money because you'll just have to replace it at graduation. Photography is super competitive right now and there are so many out there with the skills to get it done all fighting over fewer jobs because more people think they can do it themselves with their DSLR's. Normally I'm a gear doesn't matter kind of person but when you have 10 photographers and they all have the same skill level gear starts to matter a whole heck of a lot. Also keep in mind that in a big market place in the commercial photography industry you'll be competing against people who have higher end cameras than any listed here.

Photography is not a cheap field to study or work in. The camera I'm planning to add to my bag next year is just under $15,000 and that's still low end in that particular class of cameras. But I'm doing a ton of product work now and that's what is required to compete in my marketplace. Sometimes I wonder why I couldn't have gone to school to become a nurse. LOL

If I were shopping as a new student I'd go for a Canon 6D or a Nikon D610 with the kit lens and the required 50mm f/1.8. They're both good enough bodies to get the clean images and will serve well as backup cameras for years to come when working as a professional.

 

[elvinhughes]

Nikon

 

[bob100]

By the way... a photography degree is pretty much useless. Get some business classes or something in there as well because just studying photography will not get you a job. We joke at school that the only thing a BFA in photo is good for is applying for grad school. Sadly it's pretty much the truth.

yes, anyone considering a photography career should definitely read the 'Pro' sections in the camera forums.

FWIW - I'm a Canon user

 

[photo_chick]

yes, anyone considering a photography career should definitely read the 'Pro' sections in the camera forums.

FWIW - I'm a Canon user

I'd add here to make sure it's the "right" pro forum. Some are full of mom-togs who pick up a camera and start charging. Some are filled with pros who actually know what they're talking about. And many are a mix of the two.

Finding a local professional whose work you respect and has had real longevity in the business that is willing to mentor you can also be invaluable. I've learned far more that way than I have in school.

 

[werds]

Unfortunately for us, Amazon.com will not always ship to Canada and we have been told the warranty is voided once it crosses from the United States to Canada.

Weird, I am not sure if you mean the manufacturer's warranty becomes void. That sounds odd. And I might be wrong - but I recently purchased a 70D with lens and looking at the warranty card in the box for the lens. It has imprinted on it "US & Canada Only"

At least for Canon - you may want to check their website to see if they recognize US/Canada as a single warranty region. Especially if you are looking at purchasing new instead of used.

 

[Daisy14'sDH]

Pentax warranty is not transferrable