Canceled Tivo...will never go back.

[sbell111]

That seems a bit rude. You seem to be upset that I agreed with you that the product was not a good match for your needs.

Sometimes it's not what you post, but how you state it. You have a way of agreeing that seems like argument. I'm not meaning this as an insult, it's just how things are.

 

[sbell111]

I'm glad for this thread because it reminded me to call TiVo and take advantage of their $99 product lifetime service offer. It will pay for itself by May.

 

[LisaR]

OP, sorry for your situation. I had a similar experience but I didn't have a problem with the refurbished Tivo. We had one of the very first models on the market and it died a few month after receiving it. They replaced it with the refurbished one and it continues to run to this day (probably 13 years now).

In between using Tivo, we have also had DVR's from cable companies and the one that comes with Dish Network. A few months ago, we dropped satellite (haven't had cable in years) and went to just an antenna. We needed to upgrade our Tivo since it wouldn't work with HD. They gave us a fantastic deal on the Premium plus the service. We are thrilled to have Tivo back. We find it to be a superior product compared to what we have experienced with cable or satellite. I hope ours doesn't have any type of issue but I wouldn't hesitate to take a refurbished one.

 

[bicker]

The policy stinks and more should be done about a long term, loyal customer who paid $100 more for a new DVR.

Figure that what you're describing is substantially better terms and conditions than what they currently offer. There's a cost to that, I'm sure you'll agree. Give something better, it'll cost, right? Now TiVo already takes a loss on every box, and even factoring in the subscriptions they're still losing money. So figure that the only way they could defend to their owners changing the policy would be if we consumers would be willing to pay more, and that's simply not the case. It sucks, really. People love DVRs... they place such a high value on them except when it comes time to pay for them. TiVo has continually encountered a very substantial disconnect between the value perceived and the willingness to pay.

Companies put out attractive offers and loss leaders all the time to get new customers, but rarely do they really work hard at keeping your business once they get it.

TiVo's done a decade of work trying to make a go of this. After all this time, and given how little TiVo gets from offering DVRs for sale to the general public, the suspicion has to fall back on we consumers, not fulfilling our part of the bargain.

You have a way of agreeing that seems like argument.

In this case, it is more a matter of trying to find points of agreement, among all the disagreement.

 

[MosMom]

I would have been fine with a refurbished one if the main sales tactic wasn't pushing a NEW product on me for $100 more just 2 months earlier. No other reasons were given other than the ability to hold two cable cards which I told him was not an issue for us. I feel like I could have burned a $100 bill and it would have been a more productive way to spend it.

I absolutely agree, Tivo is awesome but I'm also absolutely willing to give it up to send a message. I may be one little ant that they don't care about but maybe not. I'm sure there are things that push others buttons that wouldn't register on my radar. Being sold on a new product vs. refurbished product for $100 more 2 months before it died and ending up with a refurb'd product anyway pissed me off enough to leave.



I need to edit because one other reason was given for the Premiere, an HD menu screen which I also didn't care about at all.

 

[sbell111]

I would have been fine with a refurbished one if the main sales tactic wasn't pushing a NEW product on me for $100 more just 2 months earlier.

I would also be a bit peaved by this.

No other reasons were given other than the ability to hold two cable cards which I told him was not an issue for us. I feel like I could have burned a $100 bill and it would have been a more productive way to spend it.

What really stinks is that the series 3 and HD TiVos also hold two cablecards (HD also could go with just one M-card.)

I absolutely agree, Tivo is awesome but I'm also absolutely willing to give it up to send a message. I may be one little ant that they don't care about but maybe not. I'm sure there are things that push others buttons that wouldn't register on my radar. Being sold on a new product vs. refurbished product for $100 more 2 months before it died and ending up with a refurb'd product anyway pissed me off enough to leave.

Again, that would peave me. However, my love for our TiVos is greater than the irritation that this would bring, so I wouldn't be able to give up TiVo for this.

I need to edit because one other reason was given for the Premiere, an HD menu screen which I also didn't care about at all.

I looked at the differences between HD and Premiere TiVos a few minutes ago. There's just nothing on that list that would make me want to upgrade.

 

[Tinkermommy]

Figure that what you're describing is substantially better terms and conditions than what they currently offer. There's a cost to that, I'm sure you'll agree. Give something better, it'll cost, right? Now TiVo already takes a loss on every box, and even factoring in the subscriptions they're still losing money. So figure that the only way they could defend to their owners changing the policy would be if we consumers would be willing to pay more, and that's simply not the case. It sucks, really. People love DVRs... they place such a high value on them except when it comes time to pay for them. TiVo has continually encountered a very substantial disconnect between the value perceived and the willingness to pay.

So now they have lost her revenue and have to pay out more money to find a new customer. I am not saying they should just change their policy, but if a company has a loyal long-term customer they should have done more to make her happy.


TiVo's done a decade of work trying to make a go of this. After all this time, and given how little TiVo gets from offering DVRs for sale to the general public, the suspicion has to fall back on we consumers, not fulfilling our part of the bargain.

Customers pay for a products value. If they don't see the value in TiVo's product, they will not buy it or wait until it is a price they want to pay. That's the bargain. If TiVo over spends on R&D or other areas, and customer's won't pay the price, then that is just the market in play. Customers just won't pay because they need to hold up their end of the bargain.


In this case, it is more a matter of trying to find points of agreement, among all the disagreement.

My points are in blue above.

 

[bicker]

I mentioned earlier that there were a lot of advantages of the TiVo Premiere over earlier models. These are what I was referring to:

First, a clarification for folks for whom encrypted digital cable reception matters: The advantage referred to earlier is actually a little different than described: The TiVo Premiere is fully functional with just one M-Card, while the TiVo Series 3 requires two CableCARDs for both tuners to be operational, even if they're both M-Cards. I pay $4.99 extra per month to Verizon because I have the TiVo Series 3 instead of the Premiere.

I referred earlier to the chipset used for video processing. The TiVo Premiere boasts the latest and greatest, combining what was accomplished in the TiVo Series 3 with four chips in a single chip. This means that the Premiere runs substantially faster, and cooler.

The processor is also substantially improved, performing almost three times as many operations per second as the processor in the TiVo Series 3. Memory has been advanced in several ways (more memory, bigger bus, and advanced technology).

These combine to provide a quantum improvement in performance and reliability.

The TiVo Premiere also benefits from lower power consumption. It uses about one-third less power than the TiVo Series 3.

 

[bicker]

So now they have lost her revenue and have to pay out more money to find a new customer.

You say that as if every customer is worth whatever it will take to keep that customer. Even in the most profitable situation that's not true, and in a case like this, it's double off-base. Policies like this make sure losses stay in line with what's necessary for continued operation of the enterprise. In the scenario you've painted, the sale should never have been made, because the customer essentially wanted something other that what was financially reasonable to offer (i.e., new-for-new replacement). Turning it around the other way - if they changed the policy and didn't get consumers to pay substantially higher prices, then they'd lose a significant amount of money on every customer who had a problem but were willing to comply with the terms and conditions regarding replacement via refurb. The OP is one customer - how many customers had similar issues and accepted the refurbs? TiVo actually knows these data.

I am not saying they should just change their policy, but if a company has a loyal long-term customer they should have done more to make her happy.

Based on what the OP said, I'm a much longer-term TiVo customer than the OP is. I don't have the kind of unfounded expectations that you're implying. A loyal customer is one willing to pay a premium for your products or services; a customer who's willing to use your stuff as long as it is cheap is not a loyal customer.

Heck, in the end, the right answer may be that TiVo shouldn't be in business, that we should all be happy with the crappy DVRs that our cable companies rent to us, because we expect far more than we're willing to pay for.

 

[tvguy]

I think that's pretty much the standard with all electronics now (at least the more expensive ones). I know my daughter got a refurbished iPod all 3 times hers died under warranty. Same with with digital camera.
I don't think Dish even sells their DVR's, I think for that reason. They lease them, if they fail, they replace it with a refurb.