Can executor of an Estate kick someone out of the house

[kacaju]

Co-executor could be a problem if both are not on the same page. The old two many fingers in the pot thing.

Not for us. co executor is on the same page as me. there are 4 children, 3 normal productive citizens and spongebrother liquorpants..it is spongebrother Liquorpants who is the problem

 

[Imzadi]

You will have to take this to court to commence eviction proceedings, which could take 6 months before you are able to get a Sheriff's order of eviction.

This depends on the laws of your state. But, the problem for owners & landlords is that some states have laws protecting the current tenant, so they can't come home to find their belongings on the sidewalk, and the owners/landlords have changed the locks. Many states have the law, "Possession is nine tenths of the law." This means your brother is in possession of his room, and thus the house. He has lived there long enough and has his possessions in there, and has established it as his residence.

It doesn't matter if he legally doesn't own it. It doesn't matter if he hasn't paid the rent/mortgage or bills in previous months and the landlord is right to evict. It doesn't matter if there are Board of Health violations. That becomes the "one tenth" part of the law. This is America, and most states protect the tenant from prematurely tossing a tenant out on the street. You will need to file & follow legal proceedings.

You NEED to get the court to legally side with you, give him enough (usually more than plenty) of notices to vacate and ultimately and get order to have a Sheriff forcibly evict him. Once the Sheriff has the Order of Eviction, he has like 3 days to physically move, THEN if he's still there, the sheriff can enter and toss him and his possession out on the street. But, again, that could take up to 6 months of paperwork.

 

[tvguy]

You will have to take this to court to commence eviction proceedings, which could take 6 months before you are able to get a Sheriff's order of eviction.

This depends on the laws of your state. But, the problem for owners & landlords is that some states have laws protecting the current tenant, so they can't come home to find their belongings on the sidewalk, and the owners/landlords have changed the locks. Many states have the law, "Possession is nine tenths of the law." This means your brother is in possession of his room, and thus the house. He has lived there long enough and has his possessions in there, and has established it as his residence.

It doesn't matter if he legally doesn't own it. It doesn't matter if he hasn't paid the rent/mortgage or bills in previous months and the landlord is right to evict. It doesn't matter if there are Board of Health violations. That becomes the "one tenth" part of the law. This is America, and most states protect the tenant from prematurely tossing a tenant out on the street. You will need to file & follow legal proceedings.

You NEED to get the court to legally side with you, give him enough (usually more than plenty) of notices to vacate and ultimately and get order to have a Sheriff forcibly evict him. Once the Sheriff has the Order of Eviction, he has like 3 days to physically move, THEN if he's still there, the sheriff can enter and toss him and his possession out on the street. But, again, that could take up to 6 months of paperwork.

He isn't a renter so he isn't protected under tenant laws. He isn't an executor, so he has no protection there. He isn't an heir to the house, so no protection there. Depending on your opinion, he is either a trespasser at the moment your mother passes, or a squatter, so you can toss him immediately.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

In this case I would just walk away from it.

The provision to liquidate to pay off the debt is not needed. In all cases the debt of the deceased is payed off by any assets they had (the estate) first, then anything left over is distributed.

Sorry to hijack OP....

Oh yea, I told sister that they should reject the position but they will have none of that.

But what if the will leaves the 1/2 of the house to crazy SIL & 1/2 to a brother in prison with no money and the house has 30,000ish to pay off?

I would think that they have to legally give her time to come up with the money to cover the mortgage, right? Or something along those lines.

Or can they go ahead and liquated even though she has the daughter named in the will.

There are 3 brothers, 1 sister. The other 2 brothers are getting the land surrounding the house willed to them. It is like 6 acres, or so.

As of right now her life insurance is not going to cover her funeral and debt.

My sister is going to try and talk to her about prepaying her funeral, while she is getting an income. She has not done it yet.

 

[Imzadi]

He isn't a renter so he isn't protected under tenant laws. He isn't an executor, so he has no protection there. He isn't an heir to the house, so no protection there. Depending on your opinion, he is either a trespasser at the moment your mother passes, or a squatter, so you can toss him immediately.

It isn't just for renters. I made that clear. I said the problem for OWNERS and landlord. OWNERS meaning house/property owners. By, tenants, I meant the person occupying the dwelling. No, you cannot just toss a person out immediately. Depending on the states laws: Possession is nine tenths of the law. The brother is in possession of his room, and thus the house. He has lived there long enough and has his possessions in there, and has established it as his residence. PERIOD.

All the other details I added were just that. Details. He is in possession of the room. He has established residence. The courts will ultimately agree that he is a squatter and a trespasser and then continue with the eviction proceedings, but will take time to get him out. Courts usually give a reasonable amount of time, after legal notification, to find a new, appropriate home. This is why it may not be an immediate process.

There have been episodes on this on Dr. Phil., where parents where trying to evict deadbeat, older children who did not have ANY legal claim to the house EXCEPT that they live there, their possessions were there and it was considered by the law and the police, that that is his residence until a court order says it's not. Some had even broken back into the bedroom and moved all their stuff back in, when the parents were away. UNTIL the parents had a court order stating the person no longer has any right to live there, the police's hands were tied.

Do you know how many people would just be calling up the police every day, when they've had a disagreement with someone they are living with, who is not on the deed or lease, and wanting the police to toss the other person out on their ear saying they were trespassing? EVERY person not on a deed or lease (which is most people: spouses, children, relatives,) could then be tossed out any day, on the whim of the owners. On the 18th birthday, the police could be called in to toss out ANY child. The laws do not work that way.

The police do not operate that way, when they can plainly see THE PERSON LIVES THERE. They need a court order stating the person no longer has legal claim to be there, before they or a Sheriff can come in and toss the person and their possessions out on the street. The police do not interpret the laws, they enforce then. that's why in a domestic situation, they need LEGAL PROOF that the brother no longer is ALLOWED to live there. One cannot just show the deed, if his possessions are there, and he might even have a driver's license or other documents proving he it is his established residence.

You are confusing a person's established possession of a residence/home, with being a trespasser or squatter. The law understands that people live SOMEWHERE, (unless they are truly homeless. Even then, they can establish the cardboard hut they've made into a home. People live SOMEWHERE.) Certain laws protect that right. On the deed, Yes, he may be a trespasser or squatter, but in a state where "Possession is nine tenths of the law," he has a right to be there over the current paperwork, until the courts change his status with a Sheriff's Order of Eviction.

The OP needs to find out her laws in her state as to what she needs to do as executor as well as owner. They may be different. She will most likely have to send notification, by certified mail, to the brother that he must vacate by the legally allowed time, and give him the legally required time to do so. Otherwise, he can claim he was never told to vacate. Only then, may she be allowed to advance with eviction proceedings, if he has shown he will not move.

 

[tvguy]

It isn't just for renters. I made that clear. I said the problem for OWNERS and landlord. OWNERS meaning house/property owners. By, tenants, I meant the person occupying the dwelling. No, you cannot just toss a person out immediately. Depending on the states laws: Possession is nine tenths of the law. The brother is in possession of his room, and thus the house. He has lived there long enough and has his possessions in there, and has established it as his residence. PERIOD.

All the other details I added were just that. Details. He is in possession of the room. He has established residence. The courts will ultimately agree that he is a squatter and a trespasser and then continue with the eviction proceedings, but will take time to get him out. Courts usually give a reasonable amount of time, after legal notification, to find a new, appropriate home. This is why it may not be an immediate process.

There have been episodes on this on Dr. Phil., where parents where trying to evict deadbeat, older children who did not have ANY legal claim to the house EXCEPT that they live there, their possessions were there and it was considered by the law and the police, that that is his residence until a court order says it's not. Some had even broken back into the bedroom and moved all their stuff back in, when the parents were away. UNTIL the parents had a court order stating the person no longer has any right to live there, the police's hands were tied.

Do you know how many people would just be calling up the police every day, when they've had a disagreement with someone they are living with, who is not on the deed or lease, and wanting the police to toss the other person out on their ear saying they were trespassing? EVERY person not on a deed or lease (which is most people: spouses, children, relatives,) could then be tossed out any day, on the whim of the owners. On the 18th birthday, the police could be called in to toss out ANY child. The laws do not work that way.

The police do not operate that way, when they can plainly see THE PERSON LIVES THERE. They need a court order stating the person no longer has legal claim to be there, before they or a Sheriff can come in and toss the person and their possessions out on the street. The police do not interpret the laws, they enforce then. that's why in a domestic situation, they need LEGAL PROOF that the brother no longer is ALLOWED to live there. One cannot just show the deed, if his possessions are there, and he might even have a driver's license or other documents proving he it is his established residence.

You are confusing a person's established possession of a residence/home, with being a trespasser or squatter. The law understands that people live SOMEWHERE, (unless they are truly homeless. Even then, they can establish the cardboard hut they've made into a home. People live SOMEWHERE.) Certain laws protect that right. On the deed, Yes, he may be a trespasser or squatter, but in a state where "Possession is nine tenths of the law," he has a right to be there over the current paperwork, until the courts change his status with a Sheriff's Order of Eviction.

The OP needs to find out her laws in her state as to what she needs to do as executor as well as owner. They may be different. She will most likely have to send notification, by certified mail, to the brother that he must vacate by the legally allowed time, and give him the legally required time to do so. Otherwise, he can claim he was never told to vacate. Only then, may she be allowed to advance with eviction proceedings, if he has shown he will not move.

Illegal possession gives you zero rights in most states.

 

[tasha99]

He isn't a renter so he isn't protected under tenant laws. He isn't an executor, so he has no protection there. He isn't an heir to the house, so no protection there. Depending on your opinion, he is either a trespasser at the moment your mother passes, or a squatter, so you can toss him immediately.

Uh . . . no.

 

[manning]

Sorry to hijack OP....

Oh yea, I told sister that they should reject the position but they will have none of that.

But what if the will leaves the 1/2 of the house to crazy SIL & 1/2 to a brother in prison with no money and the house has 30,000ish to pay off?

I would think that they have to legally give her time to come up with the money to cover the mortgage, right? Or something along those lines.

Or can they go ahead and liquated even though she has the daughter named in the will.

There are 3 brothers, 1 sister. The other 2 brothers are getting the land surrounding the house willed to them. It is like 6 acres, or so.

As of right now her life insurance is not going to cover her funeral and debt.

My sister is going to try and talk to her about prepaying her funeral, while she is getting an income. She has not done it yet.

This may help you

http://www.estatesettlement.com/faq.php

 

[The Mystery Machine]

This may help you

http://www.estatesettlement.com/faq.php

Thank you.

We know nothing about this sort of stuff and it is really a convoluted situation my sister has no control over, although she will more than likely be doing the paperwork.

She is already doing the MIL's finances (she has POA) and doing the bulk of her care. My poor sister is about burnt and spent.

 

[kacaju]

Is there a trust? Are your mothers wishes on a will or other legal document? What ARE your mothers wishes?

Hmm...actually there is a trust...it is my mom's from when my grandmother died. My father was also an alocoholic and my grandmother set up money in a trust for my mom that my dad could not touch. I don't think that will have anything to do when mom passes. Her will simply states that the 4 of us split any of her assets. My mom has no wishes other then the money get split. Of course dingbat spongebrother liquorpants feels he will become *rich* once mom passes.

I have already in the past told mom that once she goes the house will be up for sale as soon as she is buried (you need to understand our humor) and he will sink or swim once she is gone because he is not coming here!!

 

[It'sWDW4me]

Illegal possession gives you zero rights in most states.

Nope. Watched my mom go through this with her Spongeboyfriend Liquorpants. The house was in mom's name completely since before SL came into the picture. He lived with her for 4 years, breaking windows, destroying her property. She ultimately had to start eviction procedures because, since he had lived there longer than 6 months and had his mail delivered there, her house was his legal address - even though he hadn't paid a dime in taxes or utilities. I think he finally moved out before it got to the sheriff point but mom had to go through the channels.

Apparantly, squatters/leeches/scumsuckers DO have rights.

 

[eliza61]

Lightbulb! Deeds are public information, I believe. You can find out exactly how the deed is worded so you can know now if he's a partial owner. At least you could start getting prepared.

OP, for your and your co-executor brother's sake, I hope Spongebrother Liquorpants isn't on the deed. Evictions take time but a forced sale takes time AND money.

God, where is the tag fairy when you need them!!

 

[JessicaR]

Hmm...actually there is a trust...it is my mom's from when my grandmother died. My father was also an alocoholic and my grandmother set up money in a trust for my mom that my dad could not touch. I don't think that will have anything to do when mom passes. Her will simply states that the 4 of us split any of her assets. My mom has no wishes other then the money get split. Of course dingbat spongebrother liquorpants feels he will become *rich* once mom passes.

I have already in the past told mom that once she goes the house will be up for sale as soon as she is buried (you need to understand our humor) and he will sink or swim once she is gone because he is not coming here!!

I meant does your mom having a living trust in place. If I were you I would get a consultation now with a lawyer experienced in estates and trusts. Many in our area will consult with you free of charge.

I have recently had dealings with estate issues and it can make your head spin. If your mom will be leaving behind a larger estate you may want to consult a tax attorney too.

Since your brother already has the entitled attitude it will only get worse for you when she passes. State laws are so different but we found here in NY a simple will just wasn't beneficial for us.

Good luck you are smart to have questions now!

 

[Maddle]

If I were you I would get a consultation now with a lawyer experienced in estates and trusts.... State laws are so different... Good luck you are smart to have questions now!

This is the best advice that has come up several times. See a lawyer NOW - while your mother is ALIVE! - and apprise the attorney of all the dirty details.

It is important that everything is lined up and understood and as many loose threads tied off.

The reality is - fifty states, fifty versions of the laws - and there are several groups of laws in question here - estates, probate, residency/tenant/squatter.

Good luck with the future resolution. Even with the best circustances, estates are a pain.

Maddle

 

[tvguy]

Nope. Watched my mom go through this with her Spongeboyfriend Liquorpants. The house was in mom's name completely since before SL came into the picture. He lived with her for 4 years, breaking windows, destroying her property. She ultimately had to start eviction procedures because, since he had lived there longer than 6 months and had his mail delivered there, her house was his legal address - even though he hadn't paid a dime in taxes or utilities. I think he finally moved out before it got to the sheriff point but mom had to go through the channels.
Apparantly, squatters/leeches/scumsuckers DO have rights.

The OP is talking about an estate case, not an eviction by co-habitants who are both still alive.
I did ask my probate attorney neighbor....who like a good lawyer did qualify his answer with "things can vary from state to state" but in California, after the death of the homeowner, the executor of the estate must honor any rental agreements or co-ownerships...absent that...as is the case in the OP post.....the executor can evict someone immediately.....and to answer an earlier response...yes the squatter can take their personal property with them, and the executor has no right to prevent that.

 

[Darcy03231]

A co-worker is going through this right now. As executor of the estate she had to commence formal eviction proceedings through the court. She's been told by the attorney for the estate that it can take up to six months.

 

[kacaju]

A co-worker is going through this right now. As executor of the estate she had to commence formal eviction proceedings through the court. She's been told by the attorney for the estate that it can take up to six months.

hmmm..so if that is the case, can the Estate *make him pay* as in...once the Estate is settled Spongebrother gets his share MINUS the *rent* the Estate charged him for the months he lived there?

My mom actually has a book of records she keeps of all the money SL *owes* her

This weekend is Easter, I will not bring this up at Easter, but I will talk to my mom about her will and get the name of the lawyer she used (I had it at one time, but now I think i know who she used, but it is a good idea to check on this)

 

[Imzadi]

Nope. Watched my mom go through this with her Spongeboyfriend Liquorpants. The house was in mom's name completely since before SL came into the picture. He lived with her for 4 years, breaking windows, destroying her property. She ultimately had to start eviction procedures because, since he had lived there longer than 6 months and had his mail delivered there, her house was his legal address - even though he hadn't paid a dime in taxes or utilities. I think he finally moved out before it got to the sheriff point but mom had to go through the channels.

Apparantly, squatters/leeches/scumsuckers DO have rights.

A co-worker is going through this right now. As executor of the estate she had to commence formal eviction proceedings through the court. She's been told by the attorney for the estate that it can take up to six months.

This is the key words MANY of us has said in this thread already:
Eviction proceedings. A person cannot just be tossed out onto the street without due process.

hmmm..so if that is the case, can the Estate *make him pay* as in...once the Estate is settled Spongebrother gets his share MINUS the *rent* the Estate charged him for the months he lived there?

My mom actually has a book of records she keeps of all the money SL *owes* her

This weekend is Easter, I will not bring this up at Easter, but I will talk to my mom about her will and get the name of the lawyer she used (I had it at one time, but now I think i know who she used, but it is a good idea to check on this)

It would be easier to have your mother rewrite her will so that the other 3 silblings get 25% and Spongebrother gets 20% or whatever. The 5% can be used to fix up the rooms he occupied for sale. An attorney could help her word it in such a way that that's his share because of her generosity while he lived there. It's more straightforward.

Trying to get money retroactively, may cause another bunch of headaches, as he may want to produce receipts and such stating he doesn't owe the estate any monies, and hold up the sale of the house that way in retaliation - as well as dragging his feet on vacating.

Remember probate can take up to a YEAR.
Meanwhile, the eviction proceeding in your state can take possibly 6 months. Eviction proceeding are different from probate and you may have to have a totally different attorney to handle that process all the way through.

Your mother needs to write the will and the sale of the house in such a way as to give Spongebrother no options or recourse, while providing the executors latitude. Find a good attorney.

 

[kacaju]

Thanks everyone. I actually did just talk to my mom about this. She kind of brought it up herself...talking about something that SL did last night.
And how she has finally realized he will never be able to buy a house...that he should look into renting.

Something I have brought up many times in the past that not EVERYONE needs to be a homeowner...but that is not what mom had in her head.

So I brought up the fact that when she passes he will be in sorry shape and started talking to her about her will...seriously...we need to find it and go through it. I am betting we wrote that up 6 years ago, after my Dad died. She doesn't remember which lawyer she used. I thought it was a local one...but she thinks she used my Uncles.

So anyway...after Easter I will get over to her place...pull out her will and go over it. She completely agreed we need to do this now...she does realize he will never leave here willingly and in a timely manner. She knows me and my 2 normal brothers are all very busy with our own lives and we should not have to have the added stress of dealing with SL.

now...if I can only get her to see that SHE should not put up with SL....but that is another story...

 

[Imzadi]

One mountain at a time. Deal with the one you can with her first.

There are actually a couple (if not more) threads about what we DISers have gone through after the death of a loved one, and having to deal with the other relatives, because the will was not written well. Even when the will was written correctly, certain family members just cause more chaos than can be imagined. It's hard enough to have be grieving over the parent, let alone have to deal with ans SL too.

You might want to read the thread, to arm yourself with some true stories, in case your mother starts backing away from this issue. You want to gently let her know what may happen. As much as she doesn't want to face it now, she wouldn't want you & your siblings to have to go through it later. It will be hard enough already knowing what you face.


As for the second part, getting her to move SL out now, while she's alive, that may be harder. He will probably be passive aggressive, guilt-tripping, blaming, hostile, rude, victimy, acting helpless. All hard stuff for a parent to deal with. She may feel a lot of guilt and responsibility. Feelings aren't logical.

It might help to focus her on the fact that she'd rather he struggle now, and flounder for a while with living on his own as a renter somewhere else, while she is still alive, than have it thrust upon him, while he is in grief after she is gone. (Plus he will have probably alienated himself from all of you, by the way he wouldn't vacate the home, ) and he will indeed be truly alone.