Can Disney admit that FP+ and MDE are a fail?

[summermac]

MM/FP+ began testing almost two years ago. Hardly the first mile.

Truth. We tested it in May 2012. At that time the test was ran via ME. When you checked in you were asked if you were interested in testing something new at the parks. We were then asked what our plans were for a certain date that week. It was MK. They showed us a card that had a list on one side and a list on another. We were to pick three reservable FPs from either side - you couldn't pick from both. Then we were given cards for each party member that we presented at the FP entry for the mickey head to scan. It was pretty darn cool. Of course at the time, I thought it would morph into the 3 reservable per day PLUS regular FP. Guess not.

 

[ethanwa]

That commandos, one-timers, off-sites, APs, and locals are all pretty upset?

Please speak for yourself. We are LOCALS and AP holders and we LOVE FP+ and MyMagic.

Disney will not admit any "fail" and the old system is not coming back. Get over it and move on.

 

[Shaden]

Gosh these arguments are so tiresome. Do you not read the facts? See above! 16 million visitors hit the MK in a year. There are only 100'ish users who are actively posting on this board about it negatively. And they are the same 100 that I see over and over and over. Even if you call it 1000... That means some 15,999,000 other people are visiting the MK and couldn't care one iota about disboards or new FP+. Read the press releases! WDW is sporting RECORD TURNOUTS. Revenue is UP. This is huge. FP+ was such an incredible success story across the board.

Yes, I get it, a small group of ppl are annoyed, those that come out here. But it's not going to change because it was so incredibly successful for so many millions of people.

Embrace it, figure out how to enjoy WDW with FP+, cuz you know it's coming to other parks as soon as WDW is done.

Seriously? You think that the 2013 results were driven by a system that was rolled out in earnest in January, 2014? Holy time machine, Batman!

And you honestly believe that the 100 people (or 1,000) who have posted negatively are the only ones unhappy with 3 FPs per day with no opportunity to repeat and with tiering and no park hopping? That there are no dissatisfied people who do not visit chat boards or Face Book? So every other one of those 15,999,000 are jumping for joy?

Here are some "facts" (which are really nothing more than "assumptions", but I am willing to admit that fact.)

• The FP+ system as it is currently operating will not be the "final" iteration.
• The FP+ system will see changes, some as soon as two months, if not earlier.
• The changes to the FP+ system that will come in the future will be in direct response to the carping that is going on right now by the 100 (or 1,000, which, of course is nowhere near the true number of unhappy guests).
• The changes that will come will benefit you.
• If you enjoy FP+ now, you will enjoy it even more after the changes are implemented.
• When the changes come and you embrace them as being positive, offer up your thanks, if not an apology, to those who screamed the loudest and most frequently for said changes, for without their noted dissatisfaction, there is no reason to suspect that the changes would have been made.

Well done Jimmy, seriously, Fuzzy logic indeed.

 

[MrInfinity]

• The FP+ system as it is currently operating will not be the "final" iteration.
• The FP+ system will see changes, some as soon as two months, if not earlier.
• The changes to the FP+ system that will come in the future will be in direct response to the carping that is going on right now by the 100 (or 1,000, which, of course is nowhere near the true number of unhappy guests).
• The changes that will come will benefit you.
• If you enjoy FP+ now, you will enjoy it even more after the changes are implemented.
• When the changes come and you embrace them as being positive, offer up your thanks, if not an apology, to those who screamed the loudest and most frequently for said changes, for without their noted dissatisfaction, there is no reason to suspect that the changes would have been made.

I agree with you FP+ will continue to evolve! But the changes will not in any way be designed to satiate those individuals who are upset that they used to get on more rides and now get on fewer.

Any changes will the direct result of Disney seeing the trends of how this drives more people to spend more money, and Disney will attempt to leverage it further to get people to spend even more.

This is a business guys. It is not about getting you on more rides. If anything it's about getting you on less rides... because "riders riding rides" is a less profitable thing for riders to be doing at DW! FP+ gets more ppl on rides quickly, then out of lines and shopping. Further changes to FP+ will be to extend this, not reverse it.

 

[PeterPanic]

Do you suppose we will ever know if the inability to use FP+ in two parks/day is effecting the sale of park hoppers and thus the bottom line? I'm not hopping on my next trip and we have hopped on every one of our 25+ visits.

Again, before that kind of statement can be made you must first figure out the motivation. You think that the loss of $50.00 for a Park Hopper will be a concern of Disney? No, a little thought would tell you that what they want to do is keep people in one park. If it's DAK, they don't want them to spend a few hours in DAK get a FP for Everest and then leave and go to MK and get two more. If you get a FP in one park, you might as well get 3 because there will be no more. The money that would have been spent in MK will now be spent in DAK. MK needs a break in crowd levels to make it better for everyone that is there.

This point is non-sensical. You are suggesting that Disney will continue to "experiment" and "change", but you deny that such experimentation and change will come at the behest of those who have complained about the current system. It simply doesn't work that way. Picture these two scenarios in the boardroom:

Head Honcho: "How is our new FP+ system trending? What do people on the ground have to say about it."

Underling: "No complaints that we can discern. Everyone seems to be happy and the chat rooms and Face Book postings are all positive."

Head Honcho: "Great. Seems like we nailed this one. Pull back funding on all future changes."

versus....

Head Honcho: "How is our new FP+ system trending? What do people on the ground have to say about it."

Underling: "Mixed results. Unfortunately, many of our most ardent supporters and most frequent guests are complaining loudly in the chat rooms and on Face Book. Others say that they aren't really affected and can live with the changes. But few seem to be declaring this to be a measurable improvement over the old system."

Head Honcho: "Hmmm. Seems like we've got some more work to do. Let's keep tweaking this rocket ship until it flies to the moon!."

You seem perfectly willing to accept the fact that changes are likely, but unwilling to accept the point that said changes are driven by customer reaction. At best, that is Pollyanish. Listen to (or watch) the 2/4 Dis podcast. The owners and operators of this site have no doubt as to the general impact that FP+ is having and no doubt as to the impact that the noise on this board is or will cause.

Did not say that at all. What I said was that this will not be determined by "complaints" alone. It will be determined by feedback (positive & negative) and how they align with what Disney was trying to accomplish in the first place. For example, if their plan was to control the crowds, the traffic flow, the numbers of Fastpasses distributed for any given ride, or even if they just want to help prevent one group from dominating the system to the point of blocking out others, the very fact that certain groups are "complaining" may just reinforce the idea that what they wanted to happen is happening. Without that inside knowledge making a judgement as to what is working and what is a fail is totally impossible. And then the public has to make the decision, individually, whether or not to support the changes that Disney has made and adjust to it or stop going. That's not harsh or rude, it is the way it is. As individuals or even as a group of individuals, we all have to realize that the world (Disney or the Big Blue Marble) does not revolve around us. They offer a service, we either accept it and pay for what they are giving or we reject it and go someplace else. It is always our choice. If enough people fall in line, it could make a difference, but, it would have to be for something bigger then their end mission.

 

[magicbob]

I agree with you FP+ will continue to evolve! But the changes will not in any way be designed to satiate those individuals who are upset that they used to get on more rides and now get on fewer.

Any changes will the direct result of Disney seeing the trends of how this drives more people to spend more money, and Disney will attempt to leverage it further to get people to spend even more.

This is a business guys. It is not about getting you on more rides. If anything it's about getting you on less rides... because "riders riding rides" is a less profitable thing for riders to be doing at DW! FP+ gets more ppl on rides quickly, then out of lines and shopping. Further changes to FP+ will be to extend this, not reverse it.

Careful... you're starting to make the same points as some of the critics.

 

[Laketravis]

Bank of America / Merrill Lynch: "In regards to MM+ and the cost of, just how much more is there to go?"

Jay Rasulo: "What we spend on MM+ and how we account for that I don't really want to get into that".

 

[stindall]

My sentiments exactly!

Seconding this. Get over it people.

 

[Planogirl]

We went to WDW this past December and used legacy fastpasses. How can anyone say that the good quarter mentioned in the reports happened during FP+ time?

Now it may be that this will be a resounding success. People might love it or go in spite of it or maybe they'll all complain. It's just a teeny bit early to judge to say the least.

 

[johde]

Okay, but why wait? Why risk the backlash from any number of park guests, no matter how small? We hear constantly about how CM's acknowledge what they hear most often from guests (3 isn't enough, park hopping, etc).

It's been 3 for over half a year. Printed materials say "up to 3". Same park has been for over half a year. Printed materials say "in one park". Paper FP's have been gone from AK for how long now? I don't see what Disney has to gain, test, or needs to learn in the interim that would take months to go from 3 to 5.

First of all, I think 3 FP+, in 1 park, with existing tiering in advance will be the the norm for the masses for the foreseeable future. Any deviations from that right now will take the form of CM "Pixie Dust" and then in the future, possible automating same day changes and additional FP+ based on availability.

To your question about risking backlash from any number of customers over having too few FP+ when they have the ability to increase them?

I have a couple of theories, that are just that theories.

First, as others have stated the number will increase once offsite guests and AP get prebooking capabilities. While I'm not sure about the masses being able to prebook 4 or 5 I can see Disney awarding "bonus" FP+ on the day of based on ride lines.

Second, Disney could risk some guest backlash in the name of guest retraining. There was a group of FP- super users who could get multiple rides all day long during the busiest times of the year even during the busiest times of the day, and never wait in line. Limiting FP+ to 3 forces people to stand in the standby lines so they get used to wait in line for rides again. Disney want using a FP to be something special. The FP- super users treated it like an entitlement. Look at the quote below. A Disney Park with FP+ is a like a smartphone limited to 3 apps and 30MB a month of bandwidth. What does that may a Disney park without any FP system? A smart phone with no apps and no data?

You are really comparing all of those changes to one that limits the amount of fun you can now have at WDW?

If anything, FP+ is like taking your smartphone, limiting the number of apps you can put on it to 3, and limiting your monthly bandwidth to 30 MB.
It would be like having to choose which three Encyclopedia volumes you want to have.

FP+ is limiting. That's not an opinion. And if you are saying FP+ increases ANYTHING, you are flat out wrong.

The better smartphone analogy would be people in the know could constantly surf at LTE speeds while other people would occasionally get LTE but most of the time get 3g. The cell phone company decides everyone gets unlimited data but only 1gb of LTE.


Third Option for why they haven't increased things yet. The MK is the only park where people routinely talk about wanting more FP+. That demand for extra FP+'s at the MK may help keep them from needing to tier the MK with 7DMC. With so many rides I want to FP and only being limited to 3, if I'm visiting the MK on 3 days is 7DMC going to a FP+ on both days.

 

[PrincessJo]

Please speak for yourself. We are LOCALS and AP holders and we LOVE FP+ and MyMagic.

Disney will not admit any "fail" and the old system is not coming back. Get over it and move on.

My family also loved our magic bands and FP+. It worked perfectly for us.

I like your advice We were thinking about a trip to Disneyland and my hubby was excited to get new bands and when I told him nope, they don't have them at DL, he was disappointed.

 

[jade1]

When cell phones first came out, you had strict limits on the number of minutes you could talk and texts you could send. It wasn't until the minutes and number of texts were available in a nearly unlimited fashion that they really took off.

Some people can look at a situation and not be "wowed" merely because it is a technological step forward. Some value the content as much as the delivery vehicle.

I can agree. And just think if everyone considered cell phones a fail at first.

Like you say, the cell phone industry didn't really take off immediately, but has been one of the most successful endeavors in history.

And how did the cell phone industry improve? Adding more coverage and better phones.

So now WDW has laid down the infrastructure and can begin adding the minutes and texts...I mean headliners and attractions.

 

[FLchick415]

As someone who is a bit indifferent when it comes to FP+, I personally don't think it's fair to tell someone to "Get over it and move on" when it comes to these new changes. It's easy for me to adapt to the new system, because I live in FL...only 3 hours away from WDW. When I used FP+ (and ONLY that, as I was staying at POP) in December, I liked it. I was never a FP- super user to begin with, so nothing really changed for me except being able to book certain rides ahead of time. If I don't get around to everything during one visit, no big deal, I'll just plan another in a few months. It's not so easy for others, especially those out of state, where it's going to cost them thousands of dollars. For some, this affects their touring style in a big way.

 

[JimmyV]

My family also loved our magic bands and FP+. It worked perfectly for us.

I don't intend this to be snarky or sarcastic in any way, so please don't take it that way. This is a sincere question that so far, has largely eluded an answer here. Here goes: Insofar as this relates to FP+, does "It worked perfectly for us" mean that you found it to be a tremendous improvement over the old system, or simply that you have no complaints about it? There have been many, many posts such as yours where people are stating that "it worked for them", and there is no basis to question that conclusion at all. But what seems to be missing is the taking of the next step. Did you find that getting 3 FP+ per day at one park only with tiering and no repeats is better than the old system, just as good, or not as good, but perfectly acceptable? I think that it is very clear how the people who do not like FP+ come out in all of this. But there seems to be a lack of clarity coming from the other side. Lots of "we liked it" and "it worked for us" posts, which is fine. But it isn't necessarily the case that those responses are coming from people who view this as an improvement as opposed to merely a change that they can adjust to. Hope that made sense.

p.s. This question actually goes out to anyone who falls into the "we liked it" or "it worked for us" camp, and not just PrincessJo, so anyone is free to comment. (Obviously.)

 

[glocon]

FLchick415-
That is exactly how I feel about our family vacations. We love to ride rides. We usually do both mountains and BTMRR numerous times a day (not all with FP). I think 3 IS too low for MK, but only time will tell if the SB lines really do get shorter. Yes, I like to spend quality time with my family- but to us quality time is not time spent in lines.

Hopefully all the people who say the SB lines will be shorter are right. I can't see it- but I hope they are right.

 

[glocon]

I don't intend this to be snarky or sarcastic in any way, so please don't take it that way. This is a sincere question that so far, has largely eluded an answer here. Here goes: Insofar as this relates to FP+, does "It worked perfectly for us" mean that you found it to be a tremendous improvement over the old system, or simply that you have no complaints about it? There have been many, many posts such as yours where people are stating that "it worked for them", and there is no basis to question that conclusion at all. But what seems to be missing is the taking of the next step. Did you find that getting 3 FP+ per day at one park only with tiering and no repeats is better than the old system, just as good, or not as good, but perfectly acceptable? I think that it is very clear how the people who do not like FP+ come out in all of this. But there seems to be a lack of clarity coming from the other side. Lots of "we liked it" and "it worked for us" posts, which is fine. But it isn't necessarily the case that those responses are coming from people who view this as an improvement as opposed to merely a change that they can adjust to. Hope that made sense.

p.s. This question actually goes out to anyone who falls into the "we liked it" or "it worked for us", and not just PrincessJo, so anyone is free to comment. (Obviously.)

That would make a great poll.

 

[JimmyV]

I agree with you FP+ will continue to evolve! But the changes will not in any way be designed to satiate those individuals who are upset that they used to get on more rides and now get on fewer.

Any changes will the direct result of Disney seeing the trends of how this drives more people to spend more money, and Disney will attempt to leverage it further to get people to spend even more.

But these two ideas are inextricably intertwined. I absolutely agree with the "change follows the money" (or change is made in pursuit of money) ideal. But people cannot spend more money at WDW unless they go there. So when Disney sees threads such as "My family is done with WDW", it would be foolish not to look into the reasons why. So in their pursuit of the goals stated in the second paragraph above, Disney has to take into account that which you so easily dismiss in the first paragraph above.

 

[AmyB2006]

Or one could base it on the thousands of comments on the WDW Facebook page that are 3:1 negative.

But that still isn't the majority of Disney goers. A few negative FB posts is nothing to them. Well said right here:

Until the parks empty out and people stop making reservations at the rate that they currently are... Disney will not be swayed into veering from the course, unless they decide that the course is unattainable. Then and only then, Disney will change it. The only power any of us has over them is with our wallets. We cannot make demands with no negative results for Disney. It will just be politely acknowledged and then tossed in the trash can.

Sucks for a lot of people but that is truth right there.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

WDW just announced yesterday that the first quarter sent an all time attendance record for WDW. I don't think MB or FP+ is going anywhere.

 

[JimmyV]

But that still isn't the majority of Disney goers. A few negative FB posts is nothing to them. Well said right here:

The only power any of us has over them is with our wallets. We cannot make demands with no negative results for Disney. It will just be politely acknowledged and then tossed in the trash can.

There is some truth to this, but it is overly simplistic as it does not account for time lag. How does Disney know that the complaint it tosses in the trash today won't in fact result in the complainer voting with their wallet at a later date? The oversimplified statement that you rely on assumes that all events occur simultaneously. The voting with the wallets is a future event that is directly impacted by Disney's reaction to complaints which is a current event. If Disney looks at January, 2014 results and is so satisfied that it tosses complaints in the trash, does it know for certain that income will not suffer in January, 2015? Companies that toss complaints in the trash because they are happy with current results are very short-sighted, and short-sightedness is something that Disney has never been accused of.