Can Disney admit that FP+ and MDE are a fail?

[BuckeyeBama]

That would make a great poll.

Agreed - I would vote, "Not as good, but acceptable". Then again, I would have voted the same when they went to enforced FP return times.

 

[wisblue]

I don't intend this to be snarky or sarcastic in any way, so please don't take it that way. This is a sincere question that so far, has largely eluded an answer here. Here goes: Insofar as this relates to FP+, does "It worked perfectly for us" mean that you found it to be a tremendous improvement over the old system, or simply that you have no complaints about it? There have been many, many posts such as yours where people are stating that "it worked for them", and there is no basis to question that conclusion at all. But what seems to be missing is the taking of the next step. Did you find that getting 3 FP+ per day at one park only with tiering and no repeats is better than the old system, just as good, or not as good, but perfectly acceptable? I think that it is very clear how the people who do not like FP+ come out in all of this. But there seems to be a lack of clarity coming from the other side. Lots of "we liked it" and "it worked for us" posts, which is fine. But it isn't necessarily the case that those responses are coming from people who view this as an improvement as opposed to merely a change that they can adjust to. Hope that made sense.

p.s. This question actually goes out to anyone who falls into the "we liked it" or "it worked for us" camp, and not just PrincessJo, so anyone is free to comment. (Obviously.)

No, it does make sense.

The results would be interesting as long as you keep in mind that sampling people on the Dis is not even close to a scientific sample of all Disney guests. It would be like surveying just the people in your neighborhood about a presidential election and drawing a conclusion from that about who is going to win.

Disney is presumably gathering information from all guests, including those first time and infrequent visitors who used paper FP sparingly, if at all. If you believe the statistics that only 50% of all guests used any paper FP, and then throw in that there have to be a lot more who only got 1-3, a significant majority of guests never pulled more than 3 FPs in a day.

It stands to reason that a high percentage of that minority of guests who got a lot more than 3 FPs in a day would not like FP+. But, it also stands to reason that a high percentage of the majority of guests who typically got 2 or fewer FPs would consider FP+ an improvement.

That all having been said, as I have said many times, we never considered FP to be an important part of our trips and consider FP+ to be an improvement for us because of the ability to schedule 3 attractions in the evening after touring standby with short waits in the morning. We also like the ability to make changes, even if that opportunity may be limited by availability. Plus, the other operational features of MM+ worked almost perfectly for us, and better than the old magnetic stripes, with which we had more park entry issues.

 

[Vidia2]

Isn't Bob Iger leaving in the next year or so? Given what some people believe will be his next career path and some of his public statements about the benefits of the new technologies used in the parks, this is going to be spun as a huge success no matter what.

 

[JimmyV]

WDW just announced yesterday that the first quarter sent an all time attendance record for WDW. I don't think MB or FP+ is going anywhere.

Ummmm....first quarter ends on March 31, 2014. I don't think that current accounting rules wouldpermit Disney from announcing its first quarter results juuuussssst yet.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Ummmm....first quarter ends on March 31, 2014. I don't think that current accounting rules wouldpermit Disney from announcing its first quarter results juuuussssst yet.

Actually, no. Not to be rude, but Disney, like the vast majority of organizations, start their quarter November 1.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

Actually, no. Not to be rude, but Disney, like the vast majority of organizations, start their quarter November 1.

You are right and wrong, I believe. Like most companies, their fiscal year is not tied to the calendar year. I believe that their 1st quarter for 2014 started on Sept 29th, though (not November 1).

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

You are right and wrong, I believe. Like most companies, their fiscal year is not tied to the calendar year. I believe that their 1st quarter for 2014 started on Sept 29th, though (not November 1).

Possible, thanks for the correction.

 

[JimmyV]

No, it does make sense.

The results would be interesting as long as you keep in mind that sampling people on the Dis is not even close to a scientific sample of all Disney guests. It would be like surveying just the people in your neighborhood about a presidential election and drawing a conclusion from that about who is going to win.

This isn't an entirely fair anaolgy. Dis members tend to be people who, over the past 20+ years have spend way more money at WDW than an average guest, and who are likely going to spend more money at WDW over the next 20 years than an average guest. So rather than being a "neighborhood", they more closely follow the description of the "target audience". If I own a restaurant, I am going to care more about the opinions of my "regulars" than I am of the person who was just passsing through and will never visit me again. Dis'ers are Disney regulars, so their opinions might be different (such as, a higher percentage of "commandos") than an average guest, but I don't think that Dis'er's opinions vary greatly from other frequent WDW regulars who don't bother to post on boards. For every member here, there are hundreds of other WDW regulars and DVC owners who view things much the same way, only they don't post about it. Yes, the views here will not map over to first time guests. But they do map over to the views of people who visit annually or close to it. But this is neither here nor there.

That all having been said, as I have said many times, we never considered FP to be an important part of our trips and consider FP+ to be an improvement for us because of the ability to schedule 3 attractions in the evening after touring standby with short waits in the morning. We also like the ability to make changes, even if that opportunity may be limited by availability. Plus, the other operational features of MM+ worked almost perfectly for us, and better than the old magnetic stripes, with which we had more park entry issues.

Thanks. That all makes sense. And it really helps that you put it into perspective by explaining your prior usage of FP-.

 

[momof2n2]

Some people can look at a situation and not be "wowed" merely because it is a technological step forward. Some value the content as much as the delivery vehicle.

Amen.

And I'd go so far as add, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
I'm a mite older than 29, though...

 

[Paula Sedley-Burke]

I don't intend this to be snarky or sarcastic in any way, so please don't take it that way. This is a sincere question that so far, has largely eluded an answer here. Here goes: Insofar as this relates to FP+, does "It worked perfectly for us" mean that you found it to be a tremendous improvement over the old system, or simply that you have no complaints about it? There have been many, many posts such as yours where people are stating that "it worked for them", and there is no basis to question that conclusion at all. But what seems to be missing is the taking of the next step. Did you find that getting 3 FP+ per day at one park only with tiering and no repeats is better than the old system, just as good, or not as good, but perfectly acceptable? I think that it is very clear how the people who do not like FP+ come out in all of this. But there seems to be a lack of clarity coming from the other side. Lots of "we liked it" and "it worked for us" posts, which is fine. But it isn't necessarily the case that those responses are coming from people who view this as an improvement as opposed to merely a change that they can adjust to. Hope that made sense. p.s. This question actually goes out to anyone who falls into the "we liked it" or "it worked for us" camp, and not just PrincessJo, so anyone is free to comment. (Obviously.)

My experience was it was better than old system for us. That is because I was never able to get to the park early due to health issues to be able to get FP anyway. So being able to book FP+ as onsite guest from my room was great. The improvements I would make are we keep getting multiple MB's because we do spilt stays between resorts. They should just automatically assign one for length of stay. I am not a fan of the tiering system. Last I would like park hopping ability. Also somedays I didn't want 3 FP+ just one but it makes you select three. So you end up booking dummy ones. This is a waste and somebody else could use them. I would like the ability to be able to gift my unwanted FP+ to somebody else. But in the main I loved the MB and enjoyed the experience. The highlight was ETWB.

 

[JimmyV]

Possible, thanks for the correction.

The point being, that nothing that has come out in the financials accounts for a system that was rolled out on 1/15. Is FP+ "here to stay"? Depends how you define "stay". Is it here to stay in its current form? Doubtful. Is it here to stay meaning that FPs will be done electronically? Sure. I don't think anyone questions that. "Stay" implies "static". It will not be static.

 

[FLchick415]

My situation is pretty similar to wisblue's. Never really used FP- in the past, not to the extent of a lot of others anyway, so having 3 pre-booked rides with FP+ was kind of cool. We've always been fortunate to hit the parks when the crowds are pretty low/moderate, so FP- was never really necessary.

 

[JimmyV]

My experience was it was better than old system for us. That is because I was never able to get to the park early due to health issues to be able to get FP anyway. So being able to book FP+ as onsite guest from my room was great. The improvements I would make are we keep getting multiple MB's because we do spilt stays between resorts. They should just automatically assign one for length of stay. I am not a fan of the tiering system. Last I would like park hopping ability. Also somedays I didn't want 3 FP+ just one but it makes you select three. So you end up booking dummy ones. This is a waste and somebody else could use them. I would like the ability to be able to gift my unwanted FP+ to somebody else. But in the main I loved the MB and enjoyed the experience. The highlight was ETWB.

Great response. It worked better given your personal situation, but there are still things that you would like to see changed. I suspect that this will be a common refrain here, which sort of raises the question why so many people are telling the compainers to stop complaining. If one wants change, one has to ask for change.

 

[TreyQ3]

But these two ideas are inextricably intertwined. I absolutely agree with the "change follows the money" (or change is made in pursuit of money) ideal. But people cannot spend more money at WDW unless they go there. So when Disney sees threads such as "My family is done with WDW", it would be foolish not to look into the reasons why. So in their pursuit of the goals stated in the second paragraph above, Disney has to take into account that which you so easily dismiss in the first paragraph above.

Let's all put on our bean counter hats. If Disney were your company, who would you market to more? Family A) "My family is done with WDW" who goes 1+ per year but stays off site, doesn't buy DDP or souvenirs and has figured out how to maximize rides at the least cost or Family B) "Once or twice in a lifetime" who stays on-site, spends lots of money and are happy that they get to ride the headliners once.

I would do everything I could to attract Family B since they would drive higher profits. I would also hope that making Family B happy would increase the word of mouth marketing and get other Family B types to come to WDW.

Bottom line, the number of Family B types is much larger than the Family A types and are much more profitable to Disney. Of course Disney is going to cater to that segment.

Plus, Family A is a captive audience. They are coming back for a reason. But if they choose to go elsewhere, no big deal since I don't make much money from them. AND it frees up space/ride capacity for me to attract more Family B types.

 

[wisblue]

Thanks. That all makes sense. And it really helps that you put it into perspective by explaining your prior usage of FP-.

And, to be clear, we are also frequent Disney visitors who have spent a lot of money on Disney vacations, including buying into DVC. So, it isn't just first timers and infrequent visitors who think FP+ is an improvement over the paper FP system.

 

[momof2n2]

I can agree. And just think if everyone considered cell phones a fail at first.

Like you say, the cell phone industry didn't really take off immediately, but has been one of the most successful endeavors in history.

And how did the cell phone industry improve? Adding more coverage and better phones.

So now WDW has laid down the infrastructure and can begin adding the minutes and texts...I mean headliners and attractions.

Well, I guess the reason I keep reading the boards is I am waiting for the added "minutes and texts."

For me that will be when I can once again have two FP for TSMM and two for RnRC on the same day.

 

[dwheaton]

I think the key point is what is Disney's end goal of the system. We may call it a "fail" if Disney's goal was to improve the guest experience for its most frequent guests. Since I'm pretty sure that wasn't the goal, FP+ and MDE might be succeeding in the goals that Disney truly has for it. That's the challenge for us since we won't know what they're truly hoping to do beyond the generic statements they make in public.

 

[wisblue]

Great response. It worked better given your personal situation, but there are still things that you would like to see changed. I suspect that this will be a common refrain here, which sort of raises the question why so many people are telling the compainers to stop complaining. If one wants change, one has to ask for change.

I don't think anyone is telling the complainers to stop complaining to Disney. Telling Disney directly what you like or don't like about the system in a polite manner is the best way to get Disney to pay attention. Repeating the same complaints over and over and over on a message board is not going to accomplish anything.

 

[JimmyV]

Let's all put on our bean counter hats. If Disney were your company, who would you market to more? Family A) "My family is done with WDW" who goes 1+ per year but stays off site, doesn't buy DDP or souvenirs and has figured out how to maximize rides at the least cost or Family B) "Once or twice in a lifetime" who stays on-site, spends lots of money and are happy that they get to ride the headliners once.

I would do everything I could to attract Family B since they would drive higher profits. I would also hope that making Family B happy would increase the word of mouth marketing and get other Family B types to come to WDW.

Bottom line, the number of Family B types is much larger than the Family A types and are much more profitable to Disney. Of course Disney is going to cater to that segment.

Plus, Family A is a captive audience. They are coming back for a reason. But if they choose to go elsewhere, no big deal since I don't make much money from them. AND it frees up space/ride capacity for me to attract more Family B types.

You set this up as a binary option, but it isn't. One does not have to choose to market more to one family or the other. One can, and should, market to both equally. I would have a customer service rep on the phone with Family A in a heartbeat asking them why they are dissatisfied and what I could do to change that. I would also see what I could do to change their mind to get them to stay on site, if not always, then at least once in a while.

And I would market to Family B and try to convince them that WDW is an affordable vacation option that can be done far more frequently than once or twice in a lifetime. My marketing strategies would differ as between the two families, but I would always market to both and would never choose on or the other.

 

[momof2n2]

I am only 29 but:
Ah that shared home phone line with my neighbors worked great
Well I never need anything other than a dictionary and encyclopedias
Eh the car getting 25 mpg worked great for years
Cell phone? People can leave a message at home
Smart Phone? Why do I need to do this google thing while in my car
Why in the world do I want this thing called a PC that connects to the internets or whatever it's called

Things changed and it's go electronic or die. Could they had it work just like old FP? Yes but in the end it's here to stay because this was invested in as infrastructure for the next decades. They will make enhancements and adjustments and cave to public demands for things but you will never pull a FP paper ticket again unless they acquire "Back to the Future" and have a day honoring that by bringing out the FP kiosks.

you must not have seen my first post in this thread where I stated how it would be fine to see the MBs used, but more in the style of the original FPs. I don't care if you give me paper or not, but I'll be darned if I'm going to embrace planning rides 60 days out (maybe - I'm an offsiter from way back) and be limited to three a day. I also don't enjoy being limited to one FP per ride.

I just got my first smartphone (iPhone) Tuesday night. It's still no contract. I've never been one to be wowed by non-medical advances in technology. I've never felt the need to do an internet search from my car, nor do any of my friends even have my cell number. BUT - I have LOTS of vacation dollars to spend every year... and I suspect that is the only part Disney cares about. ♥