Camera vs IPhone along with PhotoPass+???

[whoever]

So in a social media generation, where the image quality truly is quite comparable, the iphone carries certain advantages.

Camera phones are noisy as all hell in nearly any low light situation. Any decent P&S has a sensor 80% larger than the iphone5, with a max aperture nearly a full stop higher, and will have a variable focal length via mechanical zoom. Quite simply, you cannot beat a P&S with a camera phone unless the P&S is a POS.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I say, show me the pictures!

Low light, [moving] firelight only, no noise reduction or editing. I'm pretty sure I used a 4S for this. (There is a prominent screen on the fireplace.)

Boston Quincy Market area, at night. No NR, no editing, iPhone5

 

[havoc315]

Camera phones are noisy as all hell in nearly any low light situation. Any decent P&S has a sensor 80% larger than the iphone5, with a max aperture nearly a full stop higher, and will have a variable focal length via mechanical zoom. Quite simply, you cannot beat a P&S with a camera phone unless the P&S is a POS.

You don't seem to understand aperture. The iPhone 5 has an aperture of 2.4. (I stand corrected from my earlier statement that it was 2.0). Most P&S cameras have a maximum aperture of about 3.5. Thus, the aperture on the iphone 5 is FASTER and better than most cheap P&S cameras.

Remember also, as the iphone uses a very advanced "computer" -- it can offer better processing of photos than a typical cheap P&S.

Yes, optical zoom is 1 advantage of a point and shoot. But that has little to do with image quality. And there are some very very expensive cameras that have a fixed focal length, just like the iphone. (Would you pick a cheap P&S over the $2800 Sony RX1?)

But regardless, can look at the pictures posted in this thread, including the side by side pictures I posted, where the iphone pictures clearly look better than the P&S pictures.

Turning to the noise argument -- Camera phones are indeed very noisy in low light. As are many budget P&S cameras. Then again, there are apps that allow me to shoot HDR with the iPhone, dramatically reducing the noise --- To a far better degree than I could do with a cheap P&S camera. Or I can use photoshop express to reduce noise, without ever having to download the pic to a computer.

Now, I'm not going to suggest that the iphone matches a $250-$700 point and shoot camera for image quality. But it can at least match the image quality of a real budget P&S camera ($100-$150, maybe more). And it can offer the casual photographer many key advantages. (I can't GPS tag on a cheap P&S. I can't instantly post photos to facebook from a budget P&S. I can't edit pictures in the camera on a budget P&S. )

 

[whoever]

You don't seem to understand aperture. The iPhone 5 has an aperture of 2.4. (I stand corrected from my earlier statement that it was 2.0). Most P&S cameras have a maximum aperture of about 3.5. Thus, the aperture on the iphone 5 is FASTER and better than most cheap P&S cameras.

Any reasonably decent P&S has a 1.8 max ap. And yes, I certainly do understand.

Now, I'm not going to suggest that the iphone matches a $250-$700 point and shoot camera for image quality. But it can at least match the image quality of a real budget P&S camera ($100-$150, maybe more). And it can offer the casual photographer many key advantages. (I can't GPS tag on a cheap P&S. I can't instantly post photos to facebook from a budget P&S. I can't edit pictures in the camera on a budget P&S. )

Fair enough. I guess I've never dealt with a "budget" P&S. Used to be a Sony shooter, and then moved to Nikon about 7 years ago. I don't process in camera, so didn't consider the ability to do so of any measurable value which the iphone's processor would add value to.

Different generations I guess. Then again, I've still got some 220 in my fridge I should really use....

 

[ThurlFan]

I'll jump on board the "it depends" bandwagon. If you plan to take pictures in the following situations I'd recommend a point and shoot if you already own one:

Darker restaurants like Biergarten
Outside shots of people in the parks or downtown disney after dark
Indoor motion shots in locations such as Innoventions

The iPhone is a great device. I carry an iPhone 4 which I realize is a bit behind the state of the art. However, it's just plain bad news in low light unless both the camera and the subject are reasonably still, something that you can't always expect to be the case with happy vacationers.

Outdoors or in very good indoor lighting your phone will probably be fine, especially if it's a recent model. I get great shots with my iPhone 4, nice enough to print an 8x10 when shooting in bright sunlight. But in lower light a point and shoot with a real flash will outperform your phone's LED 'flash' all day long. Indoors, my wife's 3 year old $90 Kodak EasyShare blows away our iPhones in flash-required situations.

Again, there have been a lot of good points made both pro and con as far as relying on the phone all by itself. There is nob 'right answer' that will work for everybody. On my own vacations, I wouldn't feel comfortable with just the phone.

 

[havoc315]

Any reasonably decent P&S has a 1.8 max ap. And yes, I certainly do understand.
.

????? Very very few P&S cameras have 1.8 aperture. I doubt you could find a single P&S under $300 with a 1.8 aperture.

Most P&S cameras have a maximum aperture over 3.0. There are very very few P&S cameras with a maximum aperture larger than the iPhone 2.4.

 

[whoever]

????? Very very few P&S cameras have 1.8 aperture. I doubt you could find a single P&S under $300 with a 1.8 aperture.

Most P&S cameras have a maximum aperture over 3.0. There are very very few P&S cameras with a maximum aperture larger than the iPhone 2.4.

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-COOLPIX-Digital-Camera-NIKKOR/dp/B0073HSH08

Low-end P&S. Would blow the iphlop away in all areas of mention.

 

[havoc315]

http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-COOLPIX-Digital-Camera-NIKKOR/dp/B0073HSH08

Low-end P&S. Would blow the iphlop away in all areas of mention.

That's not exactly low end. It's now discounted just barely under $200 and was over $300 when introduced.
And it's still among the very few models with 1.8 aperture. Very few.

The Canon sx260 is one of the most popular p&s cameras. (#1 on Amazon) Aperture max of 3.5.
The Canon Elph 110-- 2.7 aperture max.
The Canon A2300--- the second most popular p&s on Amazon, and a true budget camera at $90 -- max aperture of 2.8.

Very very few p&s cameras have an aperture of 1.8.

And in terms of budget p&s cameras, I'd gladly take the iPhone 5 over the Canon A2300.

 

[whoever]

I doubt you could find a single P&S under $300 with a 1.8 aperture.

You stated this...

That's not exactly low end. It's now discounted just barely under $200 and was over $300 when introduced.
And it's still among the very few models with 1.8 aperture. Very few.

And then backpedaled here when the first low-end Nikon P&S I found met the criteria. As far as it being discontinued, its the first thing which pops up on Nikonusa when you select P&S. AND.... its cheap... I should buy one just because they are such a good deal, but I've got cameras coming out of my ears.

And in terms of budget p&s cameras, I'd gladly take the iPhone 5 over the Canon A2300.

And I'd gladly take a Nikon P&S over an iPhone any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Point being, camera phones are good for instagram and the like, but fall flat when compared to any dedicated P&S which isn't the absolute bottom of the barrel.

 

[havoc315]

You stated this...


And then backpedaled here when the first low-end Nikon P&S I found met the criteria. As far as it being discontinued, its the first thing which pops up on Nikonusa when you select P&S. AND.... its cheap... I should buy one just because they are such a good deal, but I've got cameras coming out of my ears.




And I'd gladly take a Nikon P&S over an iPhone any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Point being, camera phones are good for instagram and the like, but fall flat when compared to any dedicated P&S which isn't the absolute bottom of the barrel.

You claimed "any reasonably decent" p&s has a 1.8 aperture. Of the top 25 selling p&s cameras on Amazon, 0/25 have a 1.8 aperture. Yes, you hunted and found 1 mid priced camera. Still not cheap. But very clearly, very very few p&s cameras have a 1.8 aperture. Your premise was incorrect.

Now certainly, different p&s cameras will have different advantages versus an iPhone. But similarly, an iPhone has advantages over many low-mid end p&s cameras. And among the advantages, the iPhone has a larger aperture than the vast majority of p&s cameras.

 

[whoever]

You claimed "any reasonably decent" p&s has a 1.8 aperture. Of the top 25 selling p&s cameras on Amazon, 0/25 have a 1.8 aperture. Yes, you hunted and found 1 mid priced camera. Still not cheap. But very clearly, very very few p&s cameras have a 1.8 aperture. Your premise was incorrect.
.

I take offense that I hunted for ANYTHING. I went to my manf of preference, viewed their P&S (not compact P&S, just regular P&S), and what did I see as the lowest model... the P330... Didn't bother going any further... if Nikon's lowest-model P&S has those specs, that's good enough for me. Maybe why I shoot Nikon vs. Canon...

 

[havoc315]

I take offense that I hunted for ANYTHING. I went to my manf of preference, viewed their P&S (not compact P&S, just regular P&S), and what did I see as the lowest model... the P330... Didn't bother going any further... if Nikon's lowest-model P&S has those specs, that's good enough for me. Maybe why I shoot Nikon vs. Canon...

That's far above their lowest model. Most Nikon p&s cameras do not have 1.8 aperture. On Amazon, the top selling Nikon p&s is the p510. A $300 camera with a max aperture of 3.0. The second best selling Nikon is the s9200-- max aperture of 3.5.
The lowest Nikon model in their top 25 cameras, is the s3300. $88, max aperture of 3.5.

Again, there are very very few p&s cameras -- Nikon, Canon, Sony, or anybody else, with 1.8 aperture.

 

[bleubell]

I am not a fan of traveling with my Nikon D200 dslr and an extra lens. I just find it too heavy and cumbersome. I decided for our upcoming trip to buy a more compact camera. I had been eyeing the micro 4/3 Lumix GF1 for a few years but decided on the Lumix GX1 as it seems to be somewhat of an updated version of the GF1. It can reach a high iso of 12,800 (though very grainy at that point) and has some great lenses- mainly the 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens. This camera takes incredible photos and I use it all the time (as my dslr collects dust.)

Even my thirteen year old dd, who has had her heart set on a very pricey Canon, is a convert and is saving for a Lumix instead.

 

[whoever]

On Amazon, the top selling Nikon p&s is the p510.

Best selling doesn't mean good. Auto manf sell the heck out of econoboxes... doesn't make them good cars.

Again, there are very very few p&s cameras -- Nikon, Canon, Sony, or anybody else, with 1.8 aperture.

That means there are very very few P&S out there worth their salt, but they still run circles around an iphone camera. Regardless, P&S cameras have 80% larger sensor size even when you discount lens aperture, hence they will be able to capture more light even if less is coming through the lens.

You really going to trust the capture of your memories to an $88 piece of hardware, and hope you can somehow get more than social media shareable thumbnails? Can it be done? sure... in bright sunlight with stationary targets and perfect framing every time. Can it be done otherwise.... not really.

 

[havoc315]

Best selling doesn't mean good. Auto manf sell the heck out of econoboxes... doesn't make them good cars.


That means there are very very few P&S out there worth their salt, but they still run circles around an iphone camera. Regardless, P&S cameras have 80% larger sensor size even when you discount lens aperture, hence they will be able to capture more light even if less is coming through the lens.

You really going to trust the capture of your memories to an $88 piece of hardware, and hope you can somehow get more than social media shareable thumbnails? Can it be done? sure... in bright sunlight with stationary targets and perfect framing every time. Can it be done otherwise.... not really.

You claimed that almost all p&s cameras used 1.8 aperture and now you say few are worth their salt.
Your statement about sensor size is similarly incorrect. Many p&s cameras including the one you cited, use a sensor barely bigger than an iPhone.

You're failing to recognize evolution in technology. 12 years ago, I was telling people that digital cameras would never be as good as film cameras, I was wrong.
5 years ago, people were saying that camera phones would never match a dedicated camera. The reality is, the newest generation of camera phones are quite comparable -- or better - than many of the budget and mid level compacts.

The pictures posted in this thread are good evidence.

 

[whoever]

You claimed that almost all p&s cameras used 1.8 aperture and now you say few are worth their salt.

What I said was that all DECENT P&S had 1.8 max app. Your definition of decent and mine must differ.

Here's the exact statement

Any decent P&S has a sensor 80% larger than the iphone5, with a max aperture nearly a full stop higher, and will have a variable focal length via mechanical zoom. Quite simply, you cannot beat a P&S with a camera phone unless the P&S is a POS.

Your statement about sensor size is similarly incorrect. Many p&s cameras including the one you cited, use a sensor barely bigger than an iPhone.

Your understanding is flawed. The one I selected has a sensor size 80% LARGER than the iphone 5. Go do the math.

You're failing to recognize evolution in technology. 12 years ago, I was telling people that digital cameras would never be as good as film cameras, I was wrong.
5 years ago, people were saying that camera phones would never match a dedicated camera. The reality is, the newest generation of camera phones are quite comparable -- or better - than many of the budget and mid level compacts.

The pictures posted in this thread are good evidence.

I don't fail to recognize anything. I was an early adopter of digital cameras, and they did indeed suck back in the day. I remember the Sony Mavica I had (fd-90 if I recall correctly ) back in the early mid-90s. I was coming from shooting 35mm and medium format film, so obviously it was a joke in comparison, but fun to play with nonetheless. Then the P&S really hit the market, and I had a few Sonys of that lineage. By the time the early/mid 00s rolled around, DSLRs had advanced enough to try them out... albiet in cropped sensor format. Nowadays, I'm up to full-frame DSLRs, and there's simply nothing better out there. A full-frame sensor is so sensitive, you can shoot at the equivalent of 25000 ISO, with minimal noise. Couple that with 1.4 glass, and you can shoot in extremely low light with a fast shutter.

Regardless, if you compare a decent (there's that word again) P&S which was released at the same time as the iphone5, the P&S will blow it away. The iphone is a compromise, because the device needs to do things a camera doesn't have to, which leads to compromises left and right, and it simply cannot compete. Comparing the iphone5 to an old P&S isn't apples to apples.

 

[havoc315]

What I said was that all DECENT P&S had 1.8 max app. Your definition of decent and mine must differ.

Regardless, if you compare a decent (there's that word again) P&S which was released at the same time as the iphone5, the P&S will blow it away. The iphone is a compromise, because the device needs to do things a camera doesn't have to, which leads to compromises left and right, and it simply cannot compete. Comparing the iphone5 to an old P&S isn't apples to apples.

lol... You keep twisting your statements. Your exact words were that "any reasonably decent" P&S has a 1.8 aperture. So the RX1, a $2800 camera isn't reasonably decent in your book? (It has a 2.0 aperture).

But beyond that, so you're saying that of the top 25 P&S sellers on Amazon, none of them qualify as decent?
So you're saying that 95% of current model P&S cameras aren't reasonably decent?

OK, so based on your brand new definition of decent --- "Decent = The top 1% of P&S cameras" --- I agree, the top 1% of P&S cameras are indeed vastly superior to camera phones.

But in terms of the other 95-99% of P&S cameras, there are pros and cons of each when compared side by side with a good phone camera. In fact, some of the newer camera phones are even using sensors larger than typical P&S cameras.

 

[havoc315]

Your understanding is flawed. The one I selected has a sensor size 80% LARGER than the iphone 5. Go do the math.

p.s..... The Nikon P330 uses a sensor a mere 38% larger than the iPhone 5 sensor. Not anywhere close to 80%.

 

[whoever]

lol... You keep twisting your statements. Your exact words were that "any reasonably decent" P&S has a 1.8 aperture. So the RX1, a $2800 camera isn't reasonably decent in your book? (It has a 2.0 aperture).

Kinda slow, but 2.0 isn't THAT shabby... 1/3 stop slower than 1.8, but so be it

But beyond that, so you're saying that of the top 25 P&S sellers on Amazon, none of them qualify as decent?
So you're saying that 95% of current model P&S cameras aren't reasonably decent?

Probably is what I'm saying.

OK, so based on your brand new definition of decent --- "Decent = The top 1% of P&S cameras" --- I agree, the top 1% of P&S cameras are indeed vastly superior to camera phones.

But in terms of the other 95-99% of P&S cameras, there are pros and cons of each when compared side by side with a good phone camera. In fact, some of the newer camera phones are even using sensors larger than typical P&S cameras.

It helps to have high standards. Not sure what typical is, but hte iphone's sensor is decent for a phone... but not when compared to decent P&S.

 

[havoc315]

Kinda slow, but 2.0 isn't THAT shabby... 1/3 stop slower than 1.8, but so be it


Probably is what I'm saying.


It helps to have high standards. Not sure what typical is, but hte iphone's sensor is decent for a phone... but not when compared to decent P&S.

I agree based on your new definition of decent. The iphone can't touch a top-of-the-line prosumer grade P&S camera.