Came across this article from an average guest

I have no doubt about that. I could just sit in Disney and have a great time soaking in the atmosphere!

Really? I used to feel that way when I lived in Manhattan sometimes, like I could just sit in Central Park people-watching and be happy. I guess that was free so that had something to do with it :) Anyway, I don't feel like that at WDW. I see all of the awesome attractions and I want to do them all and more than one time lol.
 
You are comparing out of pocket to dining plan..I'm not. IME OOP costs at Napa are, IIRC, pretty on par eith OOP coats at CA Grill....that's what I'm,saying

I would agree that eating out at Disney World is about on par with eating out at a similar nice place anywhere. A steak dinner can run you $25, $40, or $60 in WDW, and it can outside the world too. For what you get, it's pretty fair. Where you really get hosed is at the places like Six Flags or Cedar Point... all they have is Quick Service, it's expensive, and you get carnival grade food and theming. It's one thing to pay a lot and get decent food, theming, characters or a unique experience, but at those places I feel like we're paying a lot and getting junk.
 
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I don't share the article writer's opinion, but I see it expressed a lot and I understand it. I think he's writing as a non-frequent visitor (totally different experience and complaints from the "vets" who have complaints about MM+) and that the main problems are:

1) Non-planners (or people who plan in day-to-day life and want to escape it on vacation, or people who only like to plan a little, or. . . ) are feeling compelled to plan. Adults generally don't like to be compelled to do anything out of their comfort zone, especially for a vacation.

2) The pain (distaste, inconvenience, . . . ) of the undesireable planning is taking place long before the the enjoyment you're planning for. People in general are not so great with delayed gratification, and you don't have the distraction of "I didn't like this element, but at least I'm here watching fireworks right now!" at 12:01 on your computer. I imagine a good portion of people like FP+ at least somewhat better in action than they do in the "forced" planning stages.

3) Major FOMO. If you truly did little or no planning, showed up and waited in a line for rides or could find a *A* restaurant to eat in, but not *THE* restaurant at *THE* time, you may be quite satisfied. . . . You'd see a posted line for Space Mountain, decide 45 minutes sounds reasonable for a popular ride at a popular place and get in it. UNTIL you see the FP+ entry. "What's this?! Why are those people not getting in my line? What am I missing out on?!" Likewise, you'd be perfectly happy watching fireworks from a cockeyed angle to the castle UNTIL you see a roped-off area (haven't watched near the fp+ area, so not sure "roped off" is a good description) with people spaced more comfortably than you are enjoying the "perfect" view. Or overhear someone mention the early ADR they had at BOG, which got them into the park early and closer to the entrance of Mine Train. What would have been a perfectly enjoyable day has been tempered by the knowledge that someone else got more/better than you did. Your experience was acceptable until you discovered that someone else had it better than you and you want it. As many others have said, though, you can get those other experiences, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can plan (and increasingly, spend) for it, or you can be spontaneous, but I'd have an equally hard time as anyone keeping my disappointment at bay knowing I *could have* had something "better". Sad, really.
 
But hardly anyone was asking to schedule attractions 60 days in advance.

I think this is a pretty legit gripe. If you are not into planning, then you wont want to pick rides so early in advance.

The FP system was fine the way it was and it served its purpose perfectly. Sure there was the occasional person who showed up at 2pm in the afternoon only to be upset that there were no more Soarin Fast Passes but that type of person was a minority.

I don't agree with this. It was the majority of guests that did not use FP- at all. That's why it was so great for us, because most guests did not use it. The math has been done over and over in the forums, but I think less than 10% of the guests actually used FP- to get more than 3 FP's in a day. Sounds absurd but while we easily used it to get 6 or more in a day, there were thousands of ppl waiting in the lines. That's the main thing that's different now, that most ppl are using it now that it's on their phone.

Like I said, they're still good strategies, but their effectiveness has been significantly diminished. Late nights now are almost completely worthless unless you're talking Magic Kingdom 2am to 3am.

I agree there, but I didn't find late night EMH to be great, before. Since the first hour was still clearing the queue of regular guests, late EMH didn't really benefit you till the 2nd hour and that's too late for us. It's definitely the case that strategies to get more FPs than most guests are diminished. I think that was a goal, to get a few for everyone instead of a lot for some and none for others.

Rope Drop still works but only for a fraction of the time that it did pre FP+. Going at slow times of the year use to work wonderfully. Back in the 90s, going early November before Thanksgiving, would have guaranteed walk on to everything. That is no longer the case.

We still got plenty done at rope drop. We're talking in the first hour, like Space Mtn 2 or 3 times, Buzz, Astro, and then maybe get in line for Speedway. Mainly cuz the RD crowd is going for SDMT and A&E, if you go elsewhere, you can still do well.

I walked right up to Le Celier and asked for a table without an ADR. And by the way, it may not have been Saturday at 7pm, but was in the summer (because I was still in high school/college). So we were going at busy times and had no problem at all walking up to some of Disney's best restaurants.

So what are you suggesting... that WDW do away with ADRs and make their restaurants walk-up? That doesn't seem good to me. That says LINE. There would be lines for every restaurant at lunch and dinner. There would be no way to eat TS except to get in a line to a restaurant. ADRs are a necessity. May not like it, but the alternative is worse. And I agree with Mikie there are restaurants you can still walk up to... just not the BOG, LeCellier, etc. It's not like if you go to WDW, you'd be unable to find somewhere to eat.
 
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I admit a lot of people use it, but I think it's a stretch to say "almost everyone who goes to DW is" on the DP.

Yeah, DDP is definitely not "almost everyone". It's pretty expensive, and best suits those toward the higher end of the Disney Budget spectrum. Since the number of rooms at Values dwarfs the number of rooms at Deluxes, there are clearly a lot of ppl looking to spend less. If I had to guess... I'd say maybe... 30% of the guests are on a DDP. What do you think?
 
The writer of the article is planning to go in November and states "And, from what I’m told, they go so quick that if we don’t have a plan of action put in motion at 12:01am, we might as well not bother". Unless they are planning on going around Thanksgiving this seems a bit overstated.

Having said this, I really do get some of the frustration but unfortunately some level planning is required for WDW OR anywhere else that is extremely popular. For example, I used to love to go camping and to be spontaneous depending on weather, work schedules etc.. Now, you have to book your campsites on line many months in advance with popular campsites being filled up right away as soon as soon as the booking window opens up (often at 12:01am). Note: I have grown to love the new campsite reservation system as I highly value being guaranteed that I have a nice site after driving 7 hrs!

There are no easy fixes but one still has a choice of time of year to go, whether to go at rope drop etc. If you don't want to plan as much, there are some options that at least make it a bit more tolerable.
 
We've never used the dining plan but we have friends who always buy the dining plan (never Free Dining). I asked them why and they said they like having everything paid for, including food, ahead of the trip so they know there will be no bills when they return. And they also like not having to think about the price of food when they are there. Makes it more of an all-inclusive experience for them. They also said they have fun using up their snack credits to bring snacks home which really seemed silly to me since if you don't use the snack credits you obviously didn't need them! but apparently that is something they think is fun.

This is us as well. We've only been twice (not counting my trip in 1975 when I was 6) - first time was free dining, second time we paid for it. It wasn't about the value/savings for us. It was about the "all-inclusive" feel for us. We were told "save the money ahead of time" - but I knew we wouldn't. And I didn't want to hit day 3 and tell my kids "only $5 for lunch each today, that's all the $$ we have left". It was a matter of convenience for us. We also love to eat, so we didn't find it a waste of food at all.

I do have to say - my DD is going on her own with 3 friends Oct 31-Nov6 (yes, she's out of the will for going without me) - they were 58 days out yesterday, and DD sat down with her list that the girls made the other day together for what they wanted what days, and she was able to book all the FP+ they wanted at times that worked for them. Not bad for not getting up at 12:01 on their 60 days out day!
 
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I love planning, but hate the whole FP+ thing. Things I specifically dislike about FP+:
1. Planning that far out
2. Having to stay up late for when they "go on sale" (I loved that term in the article), just like buying tickets for a concert.
3. Navigating the terrible Disney website.
4. No flexibility when it comes to changing headliners, therefore no changing of park days unless you're willing to give up the headliners.
5. Long lines to get through first check point.
6. I feel really bad for people confused by the whole thing. Saw tons of people walk up to the touch points (after waiting in line) only to be directed to standby.
7. Creates a lot of tense moments at the first touch point when CM says, "No go".
8. If it's a busy time, don't even think about changing parks.
9. Creates long lines at attractions that didn't have long lines.
10. Has slowed down attractions, especially POC
11. Cannot gift my unused fast passes to a family.
12. Having to constantly check my phone to make sure I don't miss my FP+ time.
13. Slow internet in the parks, thus making it difficult to use the whole MME in the park.
14. Long lines at the FP+ kiosks.
15. System goes down too often

Pretty comprehensive list. Here's my take on them from our experiences...

1. I like being able to book so far out, and book before ppl w/o resort reservations. But I can see how this would not be good for someone who doesn't like to or doesn't want to plan.
2. You don't have to stay up late. Any time in your first few weeks is fine, unless you need A&E on a particular day.
3. Agree. Their website does glitch out from time to time, and the way in which your first 3 are picked is awkward.
4. Agree. But, I don't know how this could be fixed. This isn't Disney so much, as it is thousands of other guests booking up what I want, thereby limiting my choices to change popular attractions (darn them!)
5. I haven't seen this. First checkpoint was pretty quick for us. Only slow part of first checkpoint was where our kids had to be measured.
6. Disagree. More people use and understand FP+ than used and understood FP-. I actually wish fewer ppl would use it, like in the FP- days!
7. Tense moment? I can't relate here. I think our only "No go" was a CM at POTC that scanned us, looked at his screen, said oh you're 5 min earlier than it'll let you go, he punched some buttons, and waived us thru.
8. I agree here, it does lock you into your park choices more. But since our first visit we knew what parks we'd be in on which day so for us this isn't a huge change. If you used to pick day-of, this is more limiting.
9. We didn't experience this. We waited about the same as usual, rode as much as past trips.
10. Disagree. POTC isn't slower. Just half of its cars are being filled by FP instead of SB. I had no trouble getting POTC SDFPs, so this is a non-issue to us.
11. Agree, you can't. But this is not a big deal to me. There are enough other ways to be nice to ppl.
12. Disagree. Because FP- you had to do the same thing.
13. I didn't experience this. The internet worked well enough. Maybe it's getting worse as FP+ gets adopted by more and more ppl? We'll see this winter.
14. I didn't see this. I saw some pic out here on the web, but that wasn't what I experienced in the parks.
15. Disagree. The DVA site did go down for a week last month, but I haven't seen the Disney site do that. (knock on wood)

Skimming the first few, I thought we'd agree on more, since we were 50% after the first 4. But the rest I didn't see the same as you. Most of the things you find bad about FP+ either don't matter so much to me, or my experience was different.
 
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Yeah, DDP is definitely not "almost everyone". It's pretty expensive, and best suits those toward the higher end of the Disney Budget spectrum. Since the number of rooms at Values dwarfs the number of rooms at Deluxes, there are clearly a lot of ppl looking to spend less. If I had to guess... I'd say maybe... 30% of the guests are on a DDP. What do you think?
How about 30% of the guests are staying on Disney property, and 30% of the guests staying on property get the DDP, for a net of 9% (ignoring free DDP periods)?
 
There are no easy fixes but one still has a choice of time of year to go, whether to go at rope drop etc. If you don't want to plan as much, there are some options that at least make it a bit more tolerable.
Alas, not everyone does. School and work schedules limit many to just summer breaks and extended holidays. It will never be a completely level playing field for everyone until everyone's free to go whenever they want and all the special perks (60 day FP+s vs 30 day FP+s) go away -- which will be never.
 
I have lurked for years ... I now feel compelled to post.

Trip in 2002 - Stayed off-site. Had no clue eating would be such an issue, could not just walk up and get a table. After the second night of trying ended up leaving parks at 10pm and eating at Denny's ... every night there-after. Put us off going for a while.

Trip 2011 - woo-hoo!!! Found this place and saw I could make ADRs. Booked our trip 2 weeks before we were going (last minute decision) and decided to stay on-site as there was a Free Dining promotion, called Disney Dining, told them all the restaurants I was interested in, got bookings. No disappointments. That was ALL the arrangements we made. Did not use FP whilst we were there. Had a blast, best trip ever.

Trip 2012 - figured that we must have missed something on our last trip ... afterall, when I lurk here its all about the planning. I decided to be a DISer and go into full plan mode. Great trip but exhausted at constantly saying "we need to be here at this time ... time to go! got to be there at that time! ...." fooled myself into thinking if I plan I can do more, easier. Wasn't the case.

Future trip - going back to 2011 style ... with the added FP+ ... will choose rides, if we get them great, if we don't no biggie I'm sure we will get on them at some point as we do 2 days in MK, Ep, HS and 1 day in AK.

Does not need to be so complicated.
 
I have lurked for years ... I now feel compelled to post.

Trip in 2002 - Stayed off-site. Had no clue eating would be such an issue, could not just walk up and get a table. After the second night of trying ended up leaving parks at 10pm and eating at Denny's ... every night there-after. Put us off going for a while.

Trip 2011 - woo-hoo!!! Found this place and saw I could make ADRs. Booked our trip 2 weeks before we were going (last minute decision) and decided to stay on-site as there was a Free Dining promotion, called Disney Dining, told them all the restaurants I was interested in, got bookings. No disappointments. That was ALL the arrangements we made. Did not use FP whilst we were there. Had a blast, best trip ever.

Trip 2012 - figured that we must have missed something on our last trip ... afterall, when I lurk here its all about the planning. I decided to be a DISer and go into full plan mode. Great trip but exhausted at constantly saying "we need to be here at this time ... time to go! got to be there at that time! ...." fooled myself into thinking if I plan I can do more, easier. Wasn't the case.

Future trip - going back to 2011 style ... with the added FP+ ... will choose rides, if we get them great, if we don't no biggie I'm sure we will get on them at some point as we do 2 days in MK, Ep, HS and 1 day in AK.

Does not need to be so complicated.

Good post - I can especially relate to the bolded. The DIS is fantastic, but it and other planning sites have contributed to my (and I assuem others') notion that there is a "best" way to do things; a "perfect" viewing spot for things; an "ideal" room to be had and if I just plan enough, I can get all the awesome stuff for my trip. It works for me a lot. I have done things I never knew existed, or got to try things I had always missed out on in the past. My trade-off was in listening to the gripes of my family, who agree more with the article writer about the unpleasantness of plans and schedules too many days out for a vacation.
 
Future trip - going back to 2011 style ... with the added FP+ ... will choose rides, if we get them great, if we don't no biggie I'm sure we will get on them at some point as we do 2 days in MK, Ep, HS and 1 day in AK.

Does not need to be so complicated.

I agree. I think the problem comes in when people think they need to do everything in every park. Of course you can't do that unless you're staying for a month so that mentality just leads to anxiety and disappointment.

We usually pick 2 or 3 must dos per person per park and do those then figure everything else is gravy. Of course some of our must dos overlap and they aren't all E ticket rides. When he was 12 one of my sons must dos at Epcot was Club Cool. LOL We get a ton more done than our must dos so we have what we feel is a great trip.

If I need to have a certain hard to get ADR on a certain day and time then I book my trip thru a Disney travel agent and let them deal with it. (2005 was surprising did with MVMCP tickets on her 9th birthday and really wanted to walk up to the castle after we entered the park on the party tickets and surprise her with dinner in the castle. I booked the trip with a Disney TA and made it clear that was first priority and she got that and every other ADR I wanted close to the times I wanted.) If I don't have a hard to get ADR I do it myself.

We just kind of go with the attitude that a day people watching in Disney is better than a day anywhere else so anything done beyond people watching is really great,!
 
I feel the article is just a bunch of bellyaching! He's comparing things to the WDW of his youth. Comparing things to "old days" is silly. Times change and so does everything else. What other vacation spot that is frequented by millions of visitors can you go to without planning and still be able to eat at popular restaurants and do popular activities without any wait whatsoever :confused3? Yes it's frustrating if you're not computer or internet savvy. But if that's the case, then planning a WDW vacation isn't the only thing that frustrates you since most companies want you to interact with them through the internet.
 
I don't agree with this. It was the majority of guests that did not use FP- at all. That's why it was so great for us, because most guests did not use it. The math has been done over and over in the forums, but I think less than 10% of the guests actually used FP- to get more than 3 FP's in a day. Sounds absurd but while we easily used it to get 6 or more in a day, there were thousands of ppl waiting in the lines. That's the main thing that's different now, that most ppl are using it now that it's on their phone.
Which is interesting, considering one of the more persistent complaints about legacy FP is that they were all gone by lunchtime. That's an incredible feat for less than 10% of the guests to accomplish.
 
Which is interesting, considering one of the more persistent complaints about legacy FP is that they were all gone by lunchtime. That's an incredible feat for less than 10% of the guests to accomplish.

Were you around during all the FP+ hoopla / discussions out here? The calculation was along the lines of... listing the rides that had FP-. Tallying the rides per day (which is public info). Putting on the best guess as to % of that riding that was FP vs Standby. And then there you have your total number of Fast Passes given out in a day. If you figured a "good" FP- user got 6 (some might have gotten 4, some maybe 9, but say on average 6) then it was only possible that around 3,000 people did that, and the other 45,000 people in the park did not use it at all. It's simple math. FP- was barely or not at all used by most, and heavily used by a small group (like me). That made it awesome for the small group, and standby for everything for everyone else.

While that was a great "system for me" because it had flaws I knew how to exploit, my selfishness aside, it was not a great "system".

Nowadays, I talk to a lot of ppl who have gone to WDW in the last couple years, and they ALL used the modern FP+'s.
 





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