Calling all parents with opinions

[graygables]

I have 4 DDs, 19, 17, 9 & 7. We don't have to "pick our battles" b/c we don't view it as an enemy situation. We, the parents, are the rulers of our little "country" and DDs are the citizens/princesses. As such, they are expected to behave with honor and respect, not only for us, their "monarchs", but for their "country" (our family) and themselves. We are not oppressive. There are no arguments over music, clothes, piercings, tattoos, no unnatural hair color etc b/c we have never allowed those kinds of arguments. I think it comes down to our parenting style has been very matter-of-fact, no blow-ups, no scenes. A simple, "How about this outfit?" met with a "No, the skirt is too short/top too tight/etc" and then it's time to move on. Mind you, my DDs aren't angels by any stretch and the 17yo is bipolar so there have been some issues with her, but never over tattoos/piercing, etc. My children know that my no means no, my yes means yes, and if they cross the line, the consequences will be swift and to my word. No breaking curfew may mean you sleep in the barn if you don't get home in time (without calling).

BTW, my older 2 have moved out to go to school and their strong sense of self has not been altered by their independence. They have not run amuck, there are no tattoos, piercings, although they did both highlight their hair.

 

[N.Bailey]

I'm going with the majority on this one. No tattoos or body piercings of any kind (other than my daughter's ears) until they are 18 and able to pay for it themselves.

As for dress and hair. I have a LOT Of say in that and always will. I don't mind highlights at all and have my kids hair done pretty frequently.

I'm so glad that our school backs me up. They are not allowed to go to school with any color that's not natural. If they do, they're sent to the office and a call is placed for the parent to pick them up. If no parent can be reached, they sit in the office the remainder of the day and are sent a letter that they can not come back to school until a change is made.

For dress, my daughter would be wearing the most revealing choices possible if I didn't put my foot down. Again, the school backs me up!!!! They're not allowed to show the midriff area and any type strap shirt has to be a minimal of 3 fingers wide. Shorts have to be longer than fingertip length. My daughter does have much shorter shorts, but can't wear them to school. If you come to school in anything that's not appropriate, you go to the lost and found box and wear anything that fits from what's in there. Kids HATE that, so they follow the rules!

As for all black. Well, I love black too and I really don't know anyone who doesn't. As long as it stays clothing only, I don't have a problem. If they want to change the hair/make-up to look more Goth, I'll put my foot down in a heartbeat. I will NEVER buy my children a trench coat either. That's another thing they can't wear to school too.

Edit: BTW, my son will be 15 in November and my daughter 14 in December.

 

[tar heel]

I'll respectfully disagree with you folks who think conservative appearance means that a kid is somehow better. The only one of my son's friends who has been in any kind of trouble at school is the one who looks preppy/ conservative and is also an A/A+ student, athlete and student government officer.

My son is an artist and strives hard for a unique look, with a bit of an edge. He shops mainly at Hot Topic and the Goodwill store. He knows he can't do anything permanent such as a tatoo or piercing as long as he is a minor and would need my consent -- he's not really interested any way. I'm not wild about his style of clothes (tight pants and shirts), but I'm not going to make a big deal about it as long as he's decent. I also don't care for his hair, which is natural blond -- he's way too proud of it to color it black -- in his face and I really hated a beard he grew but shaved off Saturday. He showers sometimes twice a day (someone on this thread mentioned dirt), is a good student and has a part-time job that has a dress code.

 

[Marseeya]

I'll respectfully disagree with you folks who think conservative appearance means that a kid is somehow better. The only one of my son's friends who has been in any kind of trouble at school is the one who looks preppy/ conservative and is also an A/A+ student, athlete and student government officer.

My son is an artist and strives hard for a unique look, with a bit of an edge. He shops mainly at Hot Topic and the Goodwill store. He knows he can't do anything permanent such as a tatoo or piercing as long as he is a minor and would need my consent -- he's not really interested any way. I'm not wild about his style of clothes (tight pants and shirts), but I'm not going to make a big deal about it as long as he's decent. I also don't care for his hair, which is natural blond -- he's way too proud of it to color it black -- in his face and I really hated a beard he grew but shaved off Saturday. He showers sometimes twice a day (someone on this thread mentioned dirt), is a good student and has a part-time job that has a dress code.

I think it's really sad that your son will be judged as less than desireable than the conservative prep you mentioned in the first paragraph by so-called "adults" who really should know better.

 

[tar heel]

Marseeya -- I agree totally, but people who will judge him are people who don't know him or who don't have experience being around diverse teens. As Gem noted, THESE are the kids at our colleges. They're also the kids at our homeless shelters serving soup and at the mall ringing up your order.

 

[N.Bailey]

Here is a pic of the 16 year old that has been arrested for the murder of Daniel Horowitz' wife. I know it's not all kids, but IMO, if your child is this into something, signs might just be there for a parent to get involved.

I in no way say that every kid who gets into Goth will wind up here, but sometimes, we need to delve a little deeper than surface level. It's not ALWAYS as innocent and we choose to believe.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2005/10/20/MNGHFFBCM713.TXT&o=0

 

[Planogirl]

I don't think that clothing alone has anything to do with what a kid is into. Some of the most clean cut kids aren't exactly prizes and are only so clean cut because their parents force them to be.

I do agree with those who wouldn't allow tattoos though. It's too easy to do something spur of the moment at that age and then end up regretting it later. Piercings, it would depend on where. I knew a boy that had a large ring in his nose. While I support his right to self-expression that thing was just plain creepy IMO.

As for hair and clothing, I can't see myself really caring. I hate the baggy pants though so spare me that!

 

[Disney Doll]

IMO, that's the absolute worst thing to base a decision on. Why would anyone let some pious, judgmental busybody dictate how they choose to express themselves? (within reason -- as long as what they're doing doesn't hurt anyone else) I'm not raising my kids to be sheep.

Well, then I can assume that you will not be posting on the DIS how unfair it is that no one will hire your child with his/her pink hair, black nail polish & lipstick, dredlocks and Goth clothing when that happens, right? Because, like it or not, sheep or not, the reality of life is that if you look too far outside the "norm" you tend to have to live outside the norm. That's fine, if that's where you want to be, but just as much as someone has the right to look, dress & act as they wish, I, as an prospective employer have the right not to want someone who has that appearance working for me.

Life is full of difficult choices.

 

[Disney Doll]

And if any of my DD's show up with a guy covered in tattoos with a shaved head and a safety pin through his ear I promise to give him a chance to show me who he really is before I start assuming anything.

Hopefully you'll be able to stick to that, but take my word for it...it won't be easy.

 

[Disney Doll]

my tatoos are a reflection of my teenage years and I would not want my daughters or son to go out and cover there whole bodies with tatoos but I hope that they can have enough confidence in themselves to be themselves.

You know, I have often wondered how, when everyone and their grandmother is doing the same thing (i.e.-getting tattoos like many kids are today) how that is "being yourself" or "expressing indivuality". Is it really so individual if everyone is doing it? Actually, that's more "sheep-like" behavior, if you stop & think about it.

 

[Disney Doll]

I have 4 DDs, 19, 17, 9 & 7. We don't have to "pick our battles" b/c we don't view it as an enemy situation. We, the parents, are the rulers of our little "country" and DDs are the citizens/princesses. As such, they are expected to behave with honor and respect, not only for us, their "monarchs", but for their "country" (our family) and themselves. We are not oppressive. There are no arguments over music, clothes, piercings, tattoos, no unnatural hair color etc b/c we have never allowed those kinds of arguments. I think it comes down to our parenting style has been very matter-of-fact, no blow-ups, no scenes. A simple, "How about this outfit?" met with a "No, the skirt is too short/top too tight/etc" and then it's time to move on. Mind you, my DDs aren't angels by any stretch and the 17yo is bipolar so there have been some issues with her, but never over tattoos/piercing, etc. My children know that my no means no, my yes means yes, and if they cross the line, the consequences will be swift and to my word. No breaking curfew may mean you sleep in the barn if you don't get home in time (without calling).

BTW, my older 2 have moved out to go to school and their strong sense of self has not been altered by their independence. They have not run amuck, there are no tattoos, piercings, although they did both highlight their hair.

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't know my mother was posting on the DIS!!!!!!!!!!! This is how I was raised, and amazingly enough, I turned out OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Disney Doll]

I'll respectfully disagree with you folks who think conservative appearance means that a kid is somehow better. The only one of my son's friends who has been in any kind of trouble at school is the one who looks preppy/ conservative and is also an A/A+ student, athlete and student government officer.

.

For every "clean cut kid who's a troublemaker" that anyone can come up with on this thread, the rest of us can also come up with a "hoody looking kid who is a hood" example, so that becomes an exercise in futility.

Obviously all clean cut kids aren't perfect, just as all hoody looking kids aren't awful. But, I will say it again...people's perceptions of you color their opinion of you. It may be wrong, it may not be fair, it may be all the bad things you can think of, but it's life. Make sure your kids know all the ramifications of their actions, especially the ones that are permanent.

 

[Marseeya]

Well, then I can assume that you will not be posting on the DIS how unfair it is that no one will hire your child with his/her pink hair, black nail polish & lipstick, dredlocks and Goth clothing when that happens, right? Because, like it or not, sheep or not, the reality of life is that if you look too far outside the "norm" you tend to have to live outside the norm. That's fine, if that's where you want to be, but just as much as someone has the right to look, dress & act as they wish, I, as an prospective employer have the right not to want someone who has that appearance working for me.

Life is full of difficult choices.

My son is 14 and I couldn't give a flying fig whether or not he gets hired anywhere as a teenager. As an adult, it'll be his choice to make and I'm sure he'll do whatever is best for him.

My DH was goth as a teen, then he went through a Rocky Horror phase. What on earth does that mean now? He's as clean cut as you'd get, he directs choir, and is a professional IT manager. Oh, and he also volunteers as a Junior Achievement mentor. Wow, what a disaster, eh?

So pardon me if I could not possibly care less what some closed-minded, pretentious busybody thinks of my kid's manner of dress! If someone like that disapproves of either of my kids, then I'm happy the kids won't have that negative influence in their lives. There are still plenty of people in this world who have enough strength of character to live by the old saying, "You can't judge a book by its cover."

 

[N.Bailey]

My son is 14 and I couldn't give a flying fig whether or not he gets hired anywhere as a teenager. As an adult, it'll be his choice to make and I'm sure he'll do whatever is best for him.

My DH was goth as a teen, then he went through a Rocky Horror phase. What on earth does that mean now? He's as clean cut as you'd get, he directs choir, and is a professional IT manager. Oh, and he also volunteers as a Junior Achievement mentor. Wow, what a disaster, eh?

So pardon me if I could not possibly care less what some closed-minded, pretentious busybody thinks of my kid's manner of dress! If someone like that disapproves of either of my kids, then I'm happy the kids won't have that negative influence in their lives. There are still plenty of people in this world who have enough strength of character to live by the old saying, "You can't judge a book by its cover."

I think it depends on what your kid likes. Is he/she into Goth because they think the dress is cool? IMO, if it's nothing more than that, it means nothing. If however, it's rooted deeper, you could be facing some serious consequences if you don't intervene. Goths in general are pretty anti social. If your child can't fit in (that's a generic you, not you in particular), IMO, you should try to get to the root of why it is that they don't fit in.

Are they becoming involved in the satanic rituals and such is also a MAJOR factor.

I just think some parents brush it all off as something cool the kid wants to experiment with. Most of the time it's probably nothing more than that, but I feel as a parent, you should be paying close attention and intervene as soon as you notice it's more sinister. I think a lot of times, parents miss the signs because they blew it off as a phase their child was going through.

I am glad it turned out to be no big deal for your family though.

 

[graygables]

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't know my mother was posting on the DIS!!!!!!!!!!! This is how I was raised, and amazingly enough, I turned out OK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, THAT'S what I call a complement!

 

[Marseeya]

I think it depends on what your kid likes. Is he/she into Goth because they think the dress is cool? IMO, if it's nothing more than that, it means nothing. If however, it's rooted deeper, you could be facing some serious consequences if you don't intervene. Goths in general are pretty anti social. If your child can't fit in (that's a generic you, not you in particular), IMO, you should try to get to the root of why it is that they don't fit in.

He did it to be different and didn't want to follow the pack, and I commend him for that. I think he was also doing it to impress a girl.

But it didn't last long. Now he's just wearing jeans and rock tee shirts. He's still with the girl, so I assume she must like him no matter what he wears.

 

[disykat]

So pardon me if I could not possibly care less what some closed-minded, pretentious busybody thinks of my kid's manner of dress! If someone like that disapproves of either of my kids, then I'm happy the kids won't have that negative influence in their lives. There are still plenty of people in this world who have enough strength of character to live by the old saying, "You can't judge a book by its cover."

But clearly, in your family, your children have actually lived up to a code set by their parents. It's really no different than those of us who encourage our children to "conform", you have encouraged them not to "conform". Parents do have a right (and an obligation) to try to raise their children in a way that they think will get them far in society. There are just different ways of thinking about what kind of behavior will accomplish that.

I don't have any problem with your notion that being different gives them strenth of character. What I have a problem with is the parents who think they don't dare try to give their child any boundries for fear their kids won't like them. I think trying to stretch boundries is part of the teenage experience and that those with no boundries miss out.

 

[TENIA66]

well i have plans to allow non permanent things but not piercings, tatoos. things may change as we change

 

[Nite0wl71]

My kids are way past the teen years except one. Only the girls had their ears pierced (one piercing) until they turned 18.

My oldest son has no piercings or tatoos and he is 27, my 2nd son is 23 and has a tatoo and once he pierced his tongue, he was about 20 and after a few weeks he swallowed the ball.

My girls are 25 and 21, they both had their belly buttons pierced and both have a tatoo (hidden). DD25 has 2 kids so her belly button is no longer pierced. DD21 pierced the top part of her ear last year.

Once they turned of age it was up to them. DD12 wants a second ear piercing but I don't think so right now.

In our school district boy can't wear earings, if they have their ear pierced they have to take out the earring while at school.

 

[Rafiki Rafiki Rafiki]

I've not read any of the comments posted here because I don't want them to cloud how I believe about this issue.

Deviation from societal norms in fashion and body alteration can be an indication that something negative is going on in that child's life and the child is speaking out about it.

One example of this that stands out to me is the Goth movement...one that is popular amongst teens who do not fit in to standard high schoolers' social groups. It's fine for these kids to be non-standard, however, the mere look of Goth is an indication that these kids are in to far more than the "look" of Goth. If you have a kid dressing in black from head to toe, wearing black makeup, and dying his/her hair jet black, you might want to Google the term "Goth" and see other stuff that is commonly going on with these kids. It's not just about the look.

I think we owe it to our kids to keep them within the norms of our society and to not tell them it's okay to do, act like, or BE whatever the heck they want. It sets them up for a great deal of pain in early adulthood...a time when many young adults are horribly lost and tend to attempt suicide. Here are a few statistics:

--Suicide is the third leading cause of death among young people ages 15 to 24. In 2001, 3,971 suicides were reported in this group.

--Of the total number of suicides among ages 15 to 24 in 2001, 86% (n=3,409) were male and 14% (n=562) were female.

The answers to the problems of making those numbers lower are in open communications with your kids, spending time with them, and teaching them survival and coping skills.

So the short answer from me is this: If you're teaching them to cope and survive by giving them free reign over their bodies to dress, pierce, and tattoo but not allowing them to drink, smoke, and do drugs, you're sending a mixed signal about conforming to societal standards for appearance. You're also giving those around him/her a good reason to judge him/her based on looks. It's much more difficult to survive in this society when you stick out.

Good luck with whatever you decide.