California Grill's gone WAAAY downhill...

[Niki Andiokno]

This is so sad to hear about Cali Grill. DH has never really liked it, but I always have. I hope the bar hasn't changed. I love the Cosmopolitan and Lemondrop martinis there. This is a Must Do bar stop for me every time. Unfortunately I missed it earlier this month.

Try Il Mulino instead. Just had a great meal there. I won't hijack with a great review. Let me just say fresh seafood and veggies, charming wait staff and limoncello. Yummo.

 

[Colleen27]

You did in fact use a pretty broad brush to describe the negative posts by long time dis'ers, I just think the 'all is well with Disney dining crowd' posts are at least as suspect as those.

I didn't mean to come off as dismissive of all negative posts. There are those, like the OP of this thread, that detail specific shortcomings and real problems. But there are also those who talk about it being good but not what it was, and a lot of those are "never again" type of reviews.

And the DDP status of Disney-owned restaurants generates an attitude among some posters that I think is self-fulfilling; any small difference/shortcoming is elevated to greater significance than it would otherwise deserve because it is "further proof" of the DDP destroying Disney dining (and you see that especially clearly in the responses to negative reviews - a bad review of Cali Grill is 5 pages of discussion about the DDP effect, but a poor review of Il Mulino or Shulas gets just a few replies of "you must have caught them on a bad night").

 

[Planogirl]

I didn't mean to come off as dismissive of all negative posts. There are those, like the OP of this thread, that detail specific shortcomings and real problems. But there are also those who talk about it being good but not what it was, and a lot of those are "never again" type of reviews.

And the DDP status of Disney-owned restaurants generates an attitude among some posters that I think is self-fulfilling; any small difference/shortcoming is elevated to greater significance than it would otherwise deserve because it is "further proof" of the DDP destroying Disney dining (and you see that especially clearly in the responses to negative reviews - a bad review of Cali Grill is 5 pages of discussion about the DDP effect, but a poor review of Il Mulino or Shulas gets just a few replies of "you must have caught them on a bad night").

Many of us who have been going to WDW for a while believe that PART of the problem might be with the DDP. Personally, I would never blame the DDP for everything I find disappointing but would just suspect that it might be one part of the overall downward trend. (As I see it.)

But to each their own! My biggest quibble is pricing anyway. I don't find that we get fair market value at the current price structure (without the DDP) and just the thrill of dining at WDW doesn't offset that. As always, YMMV.

 

[I'mwithGrumpy]

I wouldn't put too much stock in the reviews you read. A lot of them - not this thread in particular, but generally speaking - come from people who are comparing each restaurant to what it was a decade or two ago when Disney had a very different focus with their restaurants and really their entire parks operation.

You still find more good reviews of the signature restaurants than bad, and with good reason. For those of us who aren't mentally tallying changes from the Eisner-era peak of the luxury/adult Disney experience, the food and service are for the most part excellent. We've had two incredible meals at California Grill and look forward to a third in March. (I did learn after the first not to order the pork - it was excellent but is intended to be served med-rare; I know the recommendations about pork have changed and that rare pork is considered safe now, but I just can't get used to the idea).

I personally like to look beyond the DIS for dining reviews. I read a lot of reviews here too, but I like to balance it out simply because all it takes is a menu change or for a favorite dish to disappoint to earn a terrible review from a regular guest. Sites like Yelp and Citysearch sometimes offer a different perspective from more "average" guests.

This is a very condescending statement. You are ASSUMING the people posting reviews on the DIS are comparing Disney from years ago and their views must be disregarded. My opinion of CG was based on my FIRST visit 12/11/10. Now while I may not have enjoyed my meal for various reasons, others dining on the same date may have thoroughly enjoyed their meal.
I have been eating at WDW restaurants for over 6 years, and I HAVE noticed a great decline in the options and quality of the food. Things I loved 6 years ago are no longer offered. Yes, I do believe the dining plan has affected this. I also believe Disney is trying to keep their restaurants packed, offer decent options while at the same time making it cost effective. Disney is a business after all. They are also listening to their customers regarding healthier options, children's options etc. The restaurant business is in constant change, why would Disney be any different? When someone asks for a recent review on the Dis, they don't need to be told to go somewhere else for an honest answer. The problem with asking for a review, is that each person will have had an individual experience. It doesn't reflect the restaurant as a whole, but the individual's dining experience. So what if someone posts that they have noticed the decline of food? October 2010 I had some amazing meals that I tried again in December 2010 and they didn't live up to my experience 3 months ago. Some of those things I loved 3 months ago have already been removed from the menu. So to the OP, I understand your frustrations. To those making plans for CG, always try what sounds good to you. If it doesn't live up to your expectations, you'll know to try something else next time. And Colleen27, I hope your next meal at CG is all you expect it to be.

 

[Tara]

Not in the least, if you post specifics that we, as food lovers, can identify with about why you had a great meal then it would be a valid review that anyone could use in determining the current status of that restaurant. If you just post, "we love the food and the service was good," it's a valid opinion but not much of a review. But if you've never experienced ANYTHING negative about recent WDW dining then ... Well, I just can't fathom that.

Well let's see...

March 2010: 4 girlfriends dining together. The service was a bit slower than I'd experienced but it worked out perfectly because the fireworks started just a minute or two after we left our table. (otherwise, we'd have had to wait) I had the goat cheese ravioli which I thought was off the last time I was there (Nov 2009), and it was very good this time. I don't recall the appetizers my friends had. I had the filet as my entree and it was great - cooked perfectly. One friend had a chicken dish that she said was good, but after trying the other's pork tenderloin, she said she wished she'd gotten that. I don't recall what the 4th friend had, but I think it was the pork. Two had the banana dessert and raved about it, I had the strawberry shortcake, which was good but lacked the "oomph" of some other desserts I've had there. Oh, we also had the cheese plate, which I was slightly bitter at having to share.

At the end of the meal, I pulled out my TIW card only to discover I'd brought my husband's old, expired one, not my newer one. I was so upset with myself - I even said I would get up right then and dash over to MK Guest Services to get a new one, but the server talked to the manager and they gave me the discount anyway. They didn't have to, but they did. (I got a replacement TIW card the next morning at Epcot. Actually no, I got a new one since it was just $25 more than a replacement and it extended my benefits another full year.)

June 2010 - DS (age 9) and I dined there. I had the cheese plate again (different selections, including one wonderful goat cheese from near my hometown in North Alabama!), the filet again and...now that I look at the pictures I realize I had the goat cheese ravioli again! Nearly the same meal. For dessert I had the chocolate lava cake with ice cream, but since I detest cherries, they did it with vanilla ice cream and a caramel sauce for the cake. DS had grilled cheese, which he was perfectly happy about, but I guess our server felt sorry for him because she brought him a dish of mac & cheese as well just as a little something extra (no charge). Of course, he doesn't eat that, but I tried it and it was good. Not as good as I can make at home or as good as what came with the filet at Jiko.

Note that if I ask DS where he wants to eat at WDW, CA Grill is always his first choice. He gets a grilled cheese pretty much everywhere, so it isn't the food. He just loves it there for some reason. Our servers have always been so kind to him, too.

This meal was in sharp contrast to the one we had 2 days earlier at Flying Fish. It was my first time dining there and I had the potato-wrapped snapper and thought it was flavorless. DS's grilled cheese was inedible - I thought he was just being picky or dramatic until I tried it myself. The service was terrible - we sat waiting for water refills or to have our needs met while our server continually played trivia with the table behind us. "Oh no, please continue the guessing game of 17 whatever-whatever characters with that table while I just suck on an ice cube to wash down this food." The cheese board here was excellent, though - far better than anything else I ate there and I'd say as good if not better than any selection I'd had at WDW in some time. (V&A included)

August 2010 - me, DH, DS and MIL. Again, a terrific meal food-wise, but now that I am remembering each trip, I recall that our server was a bit off. I ordered grilled cheese for DS and he said they didn't have it. I don't have pictures from this meal and I have little recollection other than I had the Yellowfin Tuna Three Ways (2 were excellent, 1 was not to my taste - a texture thing, I think - DH tasted it and thought it was excellent). I had the pork tenderloin for the first time in ages and it was as good as I remembered it from our honeymoon in 1998. I don't recall what I had for dessert - I think the lemon cheesecake. I have no idea what everyone else had except for DS who of course had the grilled cheese.

So I've definitely experienced poor food and service at signatures. I am guessing my Flying Fish experience is outside of the norm, but I'm in no rush to give it another chance, though one day I will. Citricos continues to provide solid dining and excellent service for us, as does Jiko. I've always had excellent service at Yachtsman Steakhouse, though the more I dine there, the more I notice that their menu is fairly limited. I was even pleasantly surprised with BD in August 2010 after not dining there in many years after a bad experience. It is THE best in-park dining if you leave Epcot out of the mix (and even then it might be the best - I suspect Bistro de Paris is better, but I've not dined there yet). Everything I had was very, very good.

 

[Tara]

But if you've never experienced ANYTHING negative about recent WDW dining then ... Well, I just can't fathom that.

I didn't say I hadn't experienced anything negative about WDW dining. I was referring specifically to the OP's CA Grill experience, which is far and away different than mine.

See above for a very negative experience at Flying Fish. I could also go on about my terrible meal at Rose & Crown in August 2010, but it's late. The patio view of Illuminations on a surprisingly cool August evening was a great experience though. Aside from breakfast buffets (where my son seems to abandon his bird-like eating habits, and not including Hollywood and Vine which is awful), we rarely eat at a 1TS credit restaurant anymore anyway because they are so disappointing. We do enjoy San Angel Inn, but offhand I can't think of another 1TS meal we've had in the last couple of years that I thought was above average.

 

[Ron from Michigan]

Sorry to read about your bad experience. We eat at CG on every trip and have never had a bad meal. We ate there in Oct. and had another great meal.

 

[Meteora]

So I've definitely experienced poor food and service at signatures. I am guessing my Flying Fish experience is outside of the norm, but I'm in no rush to give it another chance, though one day I will. Citricos continues to provide solid dining and excellent service for us, as does Jiko. I've always had excellent service at Yachtsman Steakhouse, though the more I dine there, the more I notice that their menu is fairly limited. I was even pleasantly surprised with BD in August 2010 after not dining there in many years after a bad experience. It is THE best in-park dining if you leave Epcot out of the mix (and even then it might be the best - I suspect Bistro de Paris is better, but I've not dined there yet). Everything I had was very, very good.

Thanks for the reviews, Tara! We've never tried Jiko, but might on our next trip if I can tear my parents away from FF....we'll see. We've never tried signature restaurants, but started with Citricos a couple of years ago and have been making the rounds since. We NEVER eat at 1TS restaurants--my parents have no tolerance for food that is less than very good, because New York City foodies.

Every time I see someone comment on a server at CG who was "off" or "strange," I wonder if it was the server we had in October. Nice guy overall, but definitely odd, and at times condescending, pushy, and overbearing. One particularly odd moment: he came over and started talking to us when we were pretty clearly watching the Illuminations fireworks out the window, essentially orcing us to turn around and away from the window to answer him and not be rude. (He wasn't talking about food or the meal, just generally chatting.) He did, however, time our meals with Wishes very nicely after we asked him to, even though it meant we were at our table for almost 45 minutes longer than we would have been otherwise. So I give him a lot of credit for not putting any pressure on us to finish our meal and turn over the table.

 

[TDC Nala]

I consider the dining plan a symptom, not a cause. I do believe it is the reason many of the restaurants (especially inside the parks) are packed and the restaurant must add tables to an already cramped room, rush guests along, and change offerings to easier-to-prepare items.

One thing I do notice is that for every bad review of a WDW restaurant there is a review that is totally opposite.

 

[BC1836]

CG is always on our dining roster and we have never been disapointed by any service or meal. However, on our most recent visit a nearby table's guest had a meal returned twice for its undercooked condition.
To CG's credit, a CM who greets guests at the elevator turned a man away wearing torn jeans.

 

[gina2000]

I will never forget watching a celebrity chef discussing the concept of a "dining experience" - chefs preparing excellent meals and patrons expecting this perfection each and every time they visit....and while that level of expertise is difficult to maintain, it is the level of service and quality that celebrity chefs feel is important to keep patrons returning.

WDW jumped on this foodie bandwagon in the 90s and sought to provide an "experience", not merely a meal. This sort of "experience" is pricy and as a result patrons should demand consistancy from visit to visit. At the cost they are being charged, and the cache "signature dining" implies, they should at the very least expect that.

Well, unfortunately, while WDW still seeks to maintain the cache of providing a dining "experience", they are no longer staffed properly to do so. The company also seeks to hold or widen its profit margin through use of streamlining menus and ingredients. The firm has changed directions ~ it no longer is capable of providing consistant dining "experiences" for patrons but does not lower prices to reflect the lack of individuality and creativity dining "experiences" seek to provide.

Bottom line: Fine dining is hit or miss at WDW signature restaurants but the pricing reflects a standard the restaurants can no longer maintain. So go, eat, and be aware that you may or may not have a positive dining experience.

 

[jerivera]

To the OP:

While I have to believe (as stated to this point) that your visit is "not the norm", a restaurant of that caliber should NEVER serve food unfit to eat. Undercooked/raw pork is bad enough but "fish scales"?? You're a better person than I, as I would have made a "scene". That is unacceptable and unfortunate. I agree with the consensus that the DDP is largely responsible. Between that and the ever increasing prices it is a sad change for the worse at Disney.

Thanks!

I've eaten everywhere from V&A-type spots to ramshackle hovels next to the beach. It's rare for me to complain about a meal.

Having said that, if I had been paying for that OOP I would have made a big deal about it. My dad was with me, and if it wasn't for the DDP, he would have made an even bigger deal about it.

I do believe they treat DDP folk differently than OOP folk. Why? Because if you're on your last day or two (as we were), there's not much sense in arguing about getting credits back which you would not be able to use. Which is the main reason we didn't complain a lot (... plus the fact that's it's a family vacation in Disney).

If you're paying OOP, you might be able to get something (like not paying) out of complaining about the crappy food you've just been served.

 

[jerivera]

However, for those who have never been, it is worth trying. You may have a great meal experience. It is best to try something and make your own decisions, then possibly miss something you might have enjoyed. Every restaurant has hit or miss days

I agree! If you haven't gone, the CG may be worth it just for the view and fireworks. Hopefully the food will be much better during your visit.

(here's some pixie dust to help you on that front! )

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I will never forget watching a celebrity chef discussing the concept of a "dining experience" - chefs preparing excellent meals and patrons expecting this perfection each and every time they visit....and while that level of expertise is difficult to maintain, it is the level of service and quality that celebrity chefs feel is important to keep patrons returning.

WDW jumped on this foodie bandwagon in the 90s and sought to provide an "experience", not merely a meal. This sort of "experience" is pricy and as a result patrons should demand consistancy from visit to visit. At the cost they are being charged, and the cache "signature dining" implies, they should at the very least expect that.

Well, unfortunately, while WDW still seeks to maintain the cache of providing a dining "experience", they are no longer staffed properly to do so. The company also seeks to hold or widen its profit margin through use of streamlining menus and ingredients. The firm has changed directions ~ it no longer is capable of providing consistant dining "experiences" for patrons but does not lower prices to reflect the lack of individuality and creativity dining "experiences" seek to provide.

Bottom line: Fine dining is hit or miss at WDW signature restaurants but the pricing reflects a standard the restaurants can no longer maintain. So go, eat, and be aware that you may or may not have a positive dining experience.

Great post!

 

[mommary]

I really have only skimmed through this thread but felt I needed to comment.
I eat at the CG every time I go to Disney which is pretty often and I have never had a bad meal there. Most recently was with a group in October and they were all impressed with their dinners.
Over all my experience with DD is that it is very good. I am from the NY city area and have dinned at some fine restaurants and I would have to say any of the signature restaurants in WDW are equal to what we're use to in NY.
Maybe I'm just happy to be there but I have no complaints.
Happy New Year to all!!

 

[BriarRosie]

I had recently eaten at the bar at California Grill a week before Christmas. And I hate to say, it was the first time I had ordered a dish I just didn't like. But the rest of the meal was really good.

I tend to order appetizers or soups, or flatbread, or sushi. Mix and match, unless I'm with someone willing to share any of the "bigger" items with me. On this visit, I had a soup and a sushi roll, followed by dessert.

I loved the soup, which was the sunchoke and cauliflower soup, with mushrooms. It had a very earthy mushroom flavor which I liked. The sushi? I tried a new roll that I disliked a lot. The surf and turf roll. Bleh. The roll and the sauce had a sweet element I disliked. I had to ask for a dish of the spicy Kazan sauce to mask what I hate about this roll. Next time I know to stick with what I like.

The dessert was the chocolate lava cake, all dressed up for the holidays with peppermint bark garnish and eggnog ice cream. Yum.

Sure, the sushi disappointed me, but the other items made up for it. I'd still come back to California Grill.

 

[kathymc]

Thats too bad, but we had a fabulous meal here on Dec 9th. Third trip and still our favorite.

 

[jls19401]

Is it possible just to have cocktails in their lounge? Has anyone ever done it?

 

[BriarRosie]

Is it possible just to have cocktails in their lounge? Has anyone ever done it?

Of course. I ate at the bar. You don't have to order food to get a drink there. It just will be extremely crowded and more than likely you won't get a seat the closer it gets to fireworks time.

 

[jls19401]

Just want to go up for the view, I loved it when it was the Top of the World, one hell of a view! I tell my dw about the observation area you could go out on, so she wants to go for a drink. Wish I could remember what the monorail cocktails were called!