calculating class rank

[Debbie7452]

Our school does numeric grades on a 100 point scale so there's no problems figuring out who's at the top. However, MY HS had a system where all the 4.0 or above graduates got to be "#1" . We still had an unofficial ranking within the #1 people. I was one of 26 #1's in my class. I was really #25 because I slacked off and only aspired to be in the #1 group. I got into it, but barely! We got bonus points for A's or B's in Honors classes, but no extra points for C's.

All of the #1's got to sit on the stage at graduation. That's what I really cared about. Class rankings can change a lot towards the end of high school. My DD was #8 in her Junior year. Due to others getting Senioritis or taking easy Sr. schedules she vaulted up to #3 by graduation. We were surprised!

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Originally Posted by 4luv2cdisney View Post
Geesh! That doesn't seem right! We are all about music in this house and my kids could possibly use this to their advantage, but I still think it's unfair!

Seems unfair to give band an extra point and not choir or drama. But my advice to anyone who is thinking of not taking a class such as music or drama or art for that matter because they're going to take a hit their GPA is to go ahead and take the hit. That's especially true if they already like it and are good at it.
Admissions folks at highly selective universities aren't stupid. They know what goes on regarding the GPA and class rank game just as well or better than anyone. And they will know how the high school calculates gpa and adjust it to their own system. They've been looking over test scores, transcripts, and extra curricular activities for years and know full well how to determine which kid genuinely took advantage of all their opportunities vs which kid gamed the system to get a high class rank. They know full well how to determine which kid excelled at the extra curricular activities they did and which ones merely padded their resume. And that's what they're determining. Did you genuinely excel at what you did and take advantage of your educational opportunities? Or did you pad your resume and play the game? They know how to determine the difference. Now if honors and AP classes were available in core subjects and kids avoid them in favor of standard in the same subject, that's going to hurt. The kid didn't take advantage of his opportunity there. But they aren't going to be killed for taking drama or choir or band or art if they are active participants in such.

 

[elgerber]

My dd has been #2 in her class for the last 2 years, she is tied with at least a couple of other people. I know this because one of her friends is also ranked #2, with the same GPA.

 

[disykat]

At our school, the only way to be ranked in the top 10 is to be in band. If you don't play an instrument, you have no chance. Band classes are the only electives that are offered in the honors tract. There have been a lot of heated discussions about this. Even if you take the highest level (honors, AP...) and get straight A's you but not band, will still be out of the top rankings because your electives are not weighted.

You can't really compare GPA from one district to another either. Our district recently changed to be in line with others in our area. Before that, you needed at least 92 for an A. A 90 was a solid B but in other districts it was an A.

Interesting how it works at different schools. My son was out of the running for Val/Sal because he was IN band, preventing him from putting an AP class in that spot in his schedule. He made it into the group of 12 in consideration, but was eliminated because of two specific AP classes he didn't take, classes it would have been impossible to take because they were scheduled during band. I know the whole story because a few teachers told me it was a bit of a bruhaha.

While the highest band is considered to be on the honors track so are most of the things honor students choose as electives (adv. foreign language, etc.) The advanced students take more science/math/etc. than required, so those AP classes ARE their electives. 6 periods in a day, some kids take 6 APs their senior year. (our school is nuts for AP classes!) Band kids can only take 5 APs.

I believe at our school, "rank" can be shared and is done by grade point with a special calculation added for honors classes. Val/Sal is a separate discussion with the names of the top ranking kids thrown in and a committee of teachers and administrators compares adding in school involvement etc.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

I suppose it depends on the Student Information Software being used by the school district, but I think students with the same GPA tie in rank.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

At our school, the only way to be ranked in the top 10 is to be in band. If you don't play an instrument, you have no chance. Band classes are the only electives that are offered in the honors tract. There have been a lot of heated discussions about this. Even if you take the highest level (honors, AP...) and get straight A's you but not band, will still be out of the top rankings because your electives are not weighted.

I don't understand this. "Band classes are the only electives that are offered in the honors tract."

So, if you are an honors student, the only elective you can take is band? What do the other students do during that period?

Or are you saying band is weighted at the same weight as honors classes? That doesn't make any sense, either.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

DD attends a HS that is quite challenging. It ranks in the top 4% in the nation and our district is one of only 539 making National AP Honor Roll. There are students getting perfect SAT scores and there are many students who graduate with straight A's for all four years. Not trying to brag about this.....I am afraid the competitiveness of our school may impact her negatively come time for college admission.

DD's freshman class has over 600 students and many take more than 3 Honors classes. I am just concerned about her falling to the bottom of the class rank (despite what would be top grades in a different high school).

I am going to wait to see what her class rank is when the report card is officially posted next week and then call and get the details on how it was calculated.

Thanks everyone!

Seems like that might be a case where the 100% scores should rank above the 91% scores. Even if everyone is an "A", they aren't all equal and it would separate the pack. Sounds like a good plan when you have multiple 4.0's

I do like the sound of that system a lot better than the weighted average. Some kids may fly right through the toughest math courses, but struggle to maintain their A in shop class. So, hard to really judge what's "hard" since what's hard for one may be easy for another. On that same topic, others may skip the classes weighted the heaviest because they make no sense in prepping for their eventual college major, and face a penalty for it. That makes little sense.

The band comment was kind of ironic. I have a friend who's only B in HS was 1st semester of freshman band. Cost him the valedictorian slot. He was actually a good player, but didn't pass the memorization tests on schedule D'OHH!

 

[timmac]

My high school was relatively complicated about how this happened. And, to make matters more interesting, starting in my junior year, class rank and grading scale both changed. Let me explain:

First two years, it worked like this:

Each class was worth a certain amount of credit, equal to the number of class periods per week multiplied by 0.2. Thus, a once-a-day class was 1.0 credit, a science class that included an additional once a week lab period was 1.2 credits, a gym class that was twice a week was 0.4 credits, etc.

Then, each class has a weight of 1.40, 1.30, 1.15 or 1.00 depending on the level of the class: Honors/AP, accelerated, standard, or remedial.

Then, finally, grade:
93-100 -> A -> 4.0
85-92 -> B -> 3.0
77-84 -> C -> 2.0
70-76 -> D -> 1.0
0-69 -> F -> 0.0

Then, weighted GPA is calculated as SumOf(Credit * Weight * GradeValue) / SumOf(Credit)

Still with me? Ok, good.

Before the start of my junior year, there were two major changes. One was how grading happened. Namely, that the 10-point scale was far more common among most districts, and thus our 7-point system was detrimental to college-bound seniors. So, we transitioned to 90-100 = A, 80-89 = B, etc.

Additionally, there was some lobbying by students (which started in particular in one of my history classes at the time), noting that the weighting and grading system was a bit skewed towards encouraging students to enroll in lower level classes than they were otherwise able, in order to ace them,
rather than ever challenging themselves. (Consider that a B in an honors course would be worth essentially 3.0 * 1.40 = 4.20, while an A in even just a standard level course would be worth 4.0 * 1.15 = 4.60.) The result was that gradevalue and weight would be combined in the following way:

For grades of A/B/C/D, Honors/AP would be worth 6/5/4/3, accelerated worth 5/4/3/2, and standard or remedial worth 4/3/2/1.

There were a small handful of students (maybe 10 of us at most) who took literally all honors/AP everything, every possible chance. Not all of us had
straight A's (I did not), but needless to say all finished in the top 10% of the class. The two who did have perfect GPA, tied for valedictorian.

All transcripts that were sent out included some pre-canned notes about the mid-season rule change, too, for whatever that's worth.

 

[TLuvsD]

Every high school does this differently, and many don't do it at all. In our school district there is no class ranking (hasn't been for years). They high school will calculate the percentile (ie top 5%), but that is as far as it goes. They offer college prep, honors, AP and IB classes.

For college, know that many recalculate the GPA for applicants, and then consider the strength of schedule (ie did the student take the most challenging courses). You can learn a lot about college admissions on college confidential dot com, but be aware that it is fairly intense. Our D is a happy college freshman, so we just went through admissions.

 

[powellrj]

This is a little off-topic, but does anyone else notice there seem to be no more middle of the road kids? My DDs principal had told us that now it seems all the kids at our school either do really well and are at the top of the class or really poorly and may not graduate.

 

[Aliceacc]

This is a little off-topic, but does anyone else notice there seem to be no more middle of the road kids? My DDs principal had told us that now it seems all the kids at our school either do really well and are at the top of the class or really poorly and may not graduate.

I'm pretty sure that I'm the only parent of "average" kids on the entire Disboard. I love them to death, but they're neither the top nor the bottom of their classes.

 

[MrsPete]

Two comments:

1. When the kids finish their first semester of college, a good number do have straight As; thus, a good number of them may be tied for that #1 spot. However, by the time they have 6, 7, 8 semesters under their belts, only a handful can still claim straight As all through high school. Of those students, the ones who've made A+s (is that 98+?) recieve more quality points (and a higher GPA) than those who just barely made the A (at a 93). And when you start adding in extra points for AP classes, a few students do stand out from the rest.

In 20 years of education, I have only ONCE seem two kids literally tied for the valeditorian spot. It's possible, but not likely.

Also, it's a sad fact that MANY students' grades drop after they turn 16. In part it's because junior year really is a step up academically, but it's also because so many of them get cars and jobs, and it's when dating takes up a great deal of their energy . . . and they put less time into their academics. 16 is also the time when many students quit band, school sports, whatever; and that's a mistake. They have only a few years to do these things.

2. Strange but true: Fewer kids are "average" than you'd expect. In my experience, our students don't fit a bell curve. Instead, they're grouped more like this:

Tip-Top students -- those who have academic ability and who work hard; we're talking 5-10% of our students -- it varies year to year

Good students -- those have academic ability and don't have to try all that much, AND those who have average ability and try really hard; I'd estimate they make up 40% of the student body

Average students -- those who have average ability and work put in a moderate amount of effort; really, I'd say they make up only 10-20% of the school

Weak students -- those who are lacking in academic ability but who put in a moderate amount of effort

Pathetic students -- those who are lacking in academic ability and who also just don't try

Obviously, within the group, some kids are stronger students than others. Someone's tip-top of the tip-tops. Someone's right there between the good students and the tip-top students.

Personally, I have one kid who's dead-center of the tip-tops, and I have one kid who's at the top of the good students but not quite tip-top.

Instead of a bell curve, I'd say the kids are more like a wave. We have more at the top of the curve because they can get there EITHER by natural ability OR hard work.

 

[clh2]

And that's even more confusing to me. Is every straight A student then ranked #1?

Yes. DD's class had 5 students as the co-valedictorians. DD "only" was only 7th or 8th in her class.

I think a 4.0 (not weighted for AP or honors)is OK. I wish they would have considered that some of the valedictorians had study halls and some did not. I think they should have factored in that 3 of the 5 students took a full course load all 4 years (i.e. 7 credits per year), and 2 of them only had 6 credits per year.

 

[Nola Girl]

I'm pretty sure that I'm the only parent of "average" kids on the entire Disboard. I love them to death, but they're neither the top nor the bottom of their classes.

LOL. I have noticed this as well.

 

[indimom]

Some of these systems seem very messed up.
A 93% should not be ranked equally with a 98%.
A basic h.s. math course should not be ranked equally with college level courses.

To my knowledge our local high school has never had a tie for Val/Sal. DD knows who is ranked first in her class (no surprise to anyone) and suspects who number two is (again not a surprise, but that student isn't talking about it) The best students stand out of the crowd here. Based on my daughters grades and ranking, I would speculate that those in the top 10-12% are straight-A students, after that you are slipping into the more average type grades, and that's easily 70% of the students.

Maybe we have a more traditional curve because we're rural and we don't have multiple charters, public, private and parochial schools to choose from. The local catholic high school only has about 40 kids in a graduating class, all the rest are in public school. I'm sure those areas with these types of options have very different ratios from school to school based on who is attending.