Cafeteria Catholics?

[va32h]

I am deeply ashamed of myself for not reading all 7 pages of replies - I usually don't do that. But I'm going to do it this time!

I think that if you don't support a substantial amount of a religion's doctrines, then you shouldn't call yourself a member of that church. It's a disservice to yourself and to the religion.

Catholics who enjoy the ceremony but not the restrictions can always join us Episcopalians!

It's practically our motto: The Episcopal Church: All the Pomp, Half the Guilt!

Seriously though, you can't always get what you want. If you like some elements of the Catholic Church, but disagree on such huge issues as homosexuality, divorce, birth control, premarital sex, female priests - I just don't see how you can reconcile that and still call yourself a Catholic with a straight face.

I have never been a Catholic, and have no desire to be, so of course it's an easy choice for me. For people who were raised in that faith, and still want to follow it, even when their personal feelings are so far from church doctrine - well again, You Can't Always Get What You Want.

 

[nuke]

I have never been a Catholic, and have no desire to be, so of course it's an easy choice for me. For people who were raised in that faith, and still want to follow it, even when their personal feelings are so far from church doctrine - well again, You Can't Always Get What You Want.

Then you just don't get it. My beliefs aren't so far from church doctrine on all issues. It's just a few and why should I give up what I know and love to try something else that will also have things I don't agree with. You're right that you can't always get what you want. I'm happy with the way I worship and in the end it will be between me and God if I did the right thing or not.

 

[CEDmom]

Catholics who enjoy the ceremony but not the restrictions can always join us Episcopalians!

It's practically our motto: The Episcopal Church: All the Pomp, Half the Guilt!

I loved your post and agreed with what you said. As a fellow Episcopalian I just wanted to let you know the church has no guilt that's reserved for your mother to bestow on you .

 

[Crankyshank]

I tried to go to an Episcopal church. It sounds easy but in reality it's not that easy. I just didn't feel the same there as I do attending a Catholic Mass.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I think to be a non-cafeteria Catholic is completely counter-cultural right now. The ideas of personal sacrifice, not having everything that "I" want when "I" want it, detachment from materialism, let alone the concept of humility---not really popular in the West. Yet, there's not a morning that goes by that I don't think of how grateful I am that I found the Church that's right for me.

I agree. It's a serious struggle to live up to the teachings of your faith in this culture, no matter what faith you profess. I work at it as hard as I can, and when I make a mistake, I try to make amends and seek forgiveness. That's all an individual can do.
I had a priest tell me once that in the end, it really is all between the individual and God. That doesn't mean that we can just do whatever we want, we have to really know the teachings and if we choose to go against them, we have to acknowledge what the real reason is. For me, when I looked at the reasons why I objected to some of the Church's teachings, it was about pride, pleasure and ego and not about justice. I could rationalize it with the best, but bottom line was I wanted things the way I thought they should be. I still struggle with some teachings, but I chose to stay in the Church. I continue to pray for understanding of those things that I struggle with.

 

[rie'smom]

The church does notcondemn homosexuality.It does condemn practicing it.
I consider myself devout in all other doctrines of the Catholic faith. My brothers-in-law,(2 of them for sure and 1 maybe)were(one DBIL died from complcations of AIDS) and are gay,I have friends that are gay,and they are all good,good,people. IMO,Jesus loves them as much as He loves you and me. He knows this is not a choice. In my heart,I can't believe that Jesus condemns them.

 

[va32h]

Then you just don't get it. My beliefs aren't so far from church doctrine on all issues. It's just a few and why should I give up what I know and love to try something else that will also have things I don't agree with. You're right that you can't always get what you want. I'm happy with the way I worship and in the end it will be between me and God if I did the right thing or not.

No, I guess I won't ever "get it". I feel very fortunate actually, that I was brought up with no particular religion, so I don't have that burden of having to give up the only faith I've ever known.

And you are also right that every religion is going to have some things you don't agree with.

I do, however, think it is dishonest to continue to practice a faith that you fundamentally or substantially disagree with. And honestly, I have met people who call themselves Catholics but who disagree with the Church on practically every matter of substance - not just birth control or homosexuality, but the authority of the Pope, the virginity of Mary and even transubstantiation. I will never understand that.

CEDMom, actually most of my guilt is self-imposed actually (but I've been told that's good as it means I have a conscience after all!). I was introduced to the Episcopal Church after I got married, and was confirmed at the age of 30, but I was one of the youngest in my class! I do prefer "low church" style though, which is rather hard to find in Texas.

 

[CEDmom]

The church does notcondemn homosexuality.It does condemn practicing it.
I consider myself devout in all other doctrines of the Catholic faith. My brothers-in-law,(2 of them for sure and 1 maybe)were(one DBIL died from complcations of AIDS) and are gay,I have friends that are gay,and they are all good,good,people. IMO,Jesus loves them as much as He loves you and me. He knows this is not a choice. In my heart,I can't believe that Jesus condemns them.

You're right, it's not Jesus that condemns them. I was brought up the God loves everyone I just wish everyone who calls themselves a Christian would practice that.

 

[JunieJay]

I am deeply ashamed of myself for not reading all 7 pages of replies - I usually don't do that. But I'm going to do it this time!

I think that if you don't support a substantial amount of a religion's doctrines, then you shouldn't call yourself a member of that church. It's a disservice to yourself and to the religion.

Catholics who enjoy the ceremony but not the restrictions can always join us Episcopalians!

It's practically our motto: The Episcopal Church: All the Pomp, Half the Guilt!

Seriously though, you can't always get what you want. If you like some elements of the Catholic Church, but disagree on such huge issues as homosexuality, divorce, birth control, premarital sex, female priests - I just don't see how you can reconcile that and still call yourself a Catholic with a straight face.

I have never been a Catholic, and have no desire to be, so of course it's an easy choice for me. For people who were raised in that faith, and still want to follow it, even when their personal feelings are so far from church doctrine - well again, You Can't Always Get What You Want.

Well if you aren't a Catholic, or at the very least a non-practicing Catholic, I wouldn't expect you to understand, but for the record, I believe in my faith in spite of the flaws of it's hierachy. At Mass, I am at peace, it IS like coming home after being away a long time. I love the hymns. I say the Apostles Creed and really listen to the words and I say to myself, yes, THIS is what I believe ....this is my faith....

I'm no saint. I have bent the laws of the Church most of my life, starting with birth control and moving on from there. I pray to God in repentance and for strength, but I am as likely to pray to God in thanks for blessings I have received no matter how small. It is in recognizing when you have been blessed that is a key, I think. At my core, I am a Catholic. If you don't get it, you don't get it, but there it is.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I haven't read through all of the replies yet but I will say I guess I am a "cafeteria" Catholic. I am a convert. I was raised Methodist. I converted befored DH and I married. I do go to mass most every week, we send the kids to a catholic school, etc.

Here's probably my biggest thing I struggle with: I don't really believe that you must go to confession to confess your sins. I don't believe you must tell your sins to a priest. I think you can go straight to God. Do I think it makes you feel better sometimes to go sit and talk to someone and get something off of your chest? Is confession really good for the soul? You betcha! But I don't feel it's a major sin if you don't. I think if you lay in bed at night and tell God how sorry you are about something and you truly are, and he knows whether you truly are or not, then that's good enough. That's my belief. Maybe it's my Protestant upbringing.

I am a cradle Catholic and this has always been my biggest disagreement with the Church. Since I was a kid it did not seem necessary. This will be the one I have to attone to God for.

 

[ptrbryant]

The Sacrament of Confession/Reconciliation is one that's straight from the Bible. Jesus himself tells his apostles (the first bishops/priests), prior to his Ascension, that whatever sins of others they loose [forgive] on earth will be forgiven in Heaven; whatever sins they do not forgive, will not be forgiven in Heaven. Of course, the Church's interpretation is that it is God alone, working through the priests, who have this power.

Karla B.

 

[allie&mattsmom]

I wanted to add something. I think we all struggle at times.

A few Sundays ago at mass, our Priest said he had an announcement that he had to make and that there was no easy way to say it. The announcement was that the other priest at our parish/school, one that the kids really loved and had grown very attached to, had just up and left the parish. He had been on vacation and just decided he wasn't coming back. When Father went to look for him all of his belongings were gone. I guess eventually he called the Bishop and got an emegency leave of absence but he hasn't and won't be back. He's left the priesthood.

We had another young priest a couple of years ago who was very respected and loved who ended up leaving our parish and then the priesthood altogether.

I wanted to add, just b/c I don't agree with 100% of the Catholic doctrine doesn't mean I feel like I am being dishonest as a previous poster said in a earlier post. Nor does it make me feel like I'm being a bad Catholic.

I feel such peace going to mass each Sunday with my family and truly feel that each time I take communion it gives me grace. Don't get me wrong..I'm not even close to being an angel. Whoa..far,far from it. But I try to be a good, kind person and teach my kids to be images of God and teach them to treat others how they would want to be treated. And what I guess I am trying to say, could I be a better Catholic? You bet I could. But I think I'm doing an okay job and I don't think God's too disappointed in me by how I'm doing so far.

 

[mickeyfan2]

The Sacrament of Confession/Reconciliation is one that's straight from the Bible. Jesus himself tells his apostles (the first bishops/priests), prior to his Ascension, that whatever sins of others they loose [forgive] on earth will be forgiven in Heaven; whatever sins they do not forgive, will not be forgiven in Heaven. Of course, the Church's interpretation is that it is God alone, working through the priests, who have this power.

Karla B.

I know that, but where did he say that any other person had that power? I always read it that only the Apostles were given that gift, just like they got the gifts directly from the Holy Spirit.

 

[JunieJay]

I haven't read through all of the replies yet but I will say I guess I am a "cafeteria" Catholic. I am a convert. I was raised Methodist. I converted befored DH and I married. I do go to mass most every week, we send the kids to a catholic school, etc.

Here's probably my biggest thing I struggle with: I don't really believe that you must go to confession to confess your sins. I don't believe you must tell your sins to a priest. I think you can go straight to God. Do I think it makes you feel better sometimes to go sit and talk to someone and get something off of your chest? Is confession really good for the soul? You betcha! But I don't feel it's a major sin if you don't. I think if you lay in bed at night and tell God how sorry you are about something and you truly are, and he knows whether you truly are or not, then that's good enough. That's my belief. Maybe it's my Protestant upbringing.

I'm a cradle Catholic and reared in Catholic schools and I agree with you on confession. Especially back in the day when I was a child. I can remember kneeling in the confessional with my pretty pearl white prayer book and going down the list of sins in the back, trying to come up with enough sins to make it sound good. Sometimes I'd even make up a few if it didn't sound like enough.

Confession has changed a lot since those days now. Not it seems more like a counseling session for people who are struggling for forgiveness.

 

[sodaseller]

I know that, but where did he say that any other person had that power? I always read it that only the Apostles were given that gift, just like they got the gifts directly from the Holy Spirit.

Apostolic succession teaches that te howers granted to the apostles are validly granted to the unbroken line of successors through valid ordinations. Many (i.e. all Protestants) do not ascribe to the theory and I understand their objections, but that is the theory.

More broadly and less offensively. Christ established His Church to be His contuining presence on earth, doing the same things in His name that He did, within certain limitation. The foregiveness of sins is one of those, though to clear up a common misconception, the priest is just channeling Divine power, not exercising his own. In Personam Chrisi and Ex Opere Operato if you need a little Latin to make it sound official.

 

[goofygirl]

I tried to go to an Episcopal church. It sounds easy but in reality it's not that easy. I just didn't feel the same there as I do attending a Catholic Mass.

It depends what kind of an Episcopal church you went to, they are not all the same. Some are more "Catholic-like" than others. Recently, I visited an Episcopal church that was exactly like a Catholic church - with statues of Mary, incense, candles, crucifixes, holy water fonts, etc. Except for the Book of Common Prayer, it felt just like a Roman Catholic church to me.

 

[sodaseller]

The church does notcondemn homosexuality.It does condemn practicing it.
I consider myself devout in all other doctrines of the Catholic faith. My brothers-in-law,(2 of them for sure and 1 maybe)were(one DBIL died from complcations of AIDS) and are gay,I have friends that are gay,and they are all good,good,people. IMO,Jesus loves them as much as He loves you and me. He knows this is not a choice. In my heart,I can't believe that Jesus condemns them.

I agree that Christ does not condemn them, for reasons I can get into more extensively if requested, but I'm afraid your version of what the Church teaches is accurate but incomplete. Especially under current leadership, the Church hierarchy pushes ever more loudly to condemn those that are "intrinsically disordered". The laity is not necessarily listening, correctly to my mid, but a close examination of recent Papal pronouncements and those the CDF under JPII will show a very hostile attitude towards all homosexuals

 

[Crankyshank]

It depends what kind of an Episcopal church you went to, they are not all the same. Some are more "Catholic-like" than others. Recently, I visited an Episcopal church that was exactly like a Catholic church - with statues of Mary, incense, candles, crucifixes, holy water fonts, etc. Except for the Book of Common Prayer, it felt just like a Roman Catholic church to me.

I never said they were all the same. I said it just didn't feel right to me and I tried more than one.

 

[goofygirl]

Re: Confession- I always wondered if priests have to go to Confession?

Do they just confess to each other? How does that work?

 

[sodaseller]

I wanted to add something. I think we all struggle at times.

A few Sundays ago at mass, our Priest said he had an announcement that he had to make and that there was no easy way to say it. The announcement was that the other priest at our parish/school, one that the kids really loved and had grown very attached to, had just up and left the parish. He had been on vacation and just decided he wasn't coming back. When Father went to look for him all of his belongings were gone. I guess eventually he called the Bishop and got an emegency leave of absence but he hasn't and won't be back. He's left the priesthood.

We had another young priest a couple of years ago who was very respected and loved who ended up leaving our parish and then the priesthood altogether.

I wanted to add, just b/c I don't agree with 100% of the Catholic doctrine doesn't mean I feel like I am being dishonest as a previous poster said in a earlier post. Nor does it make me feel like I'm being a bad Catholic.

I feel such peace going to mass each Sunday with my family and truly feel that each time I take communion it gives me grace. Don't get me wrong..I'm not even close to being an angel. Whoa..far,far from it. But I try to be a good, kind person and teach my kids to be images of God and teach them to treat others how they would want to be treated. And what I guess I am trying to say, could I be a better Catholic? You bet I could. But I think I'm doing an okay job and I don't think God's too disappointed in me by how I'm doing so far.

Priests can lead a lonely life and it can be overwhelming. Even if we maintain celibacy, think we must do something to try lmit how many priests we lose. Not sure what happened in this instance, but far too many priests have gone on a vacation in which they enjoy more normal interaction and cannot return to what can be the lonely life of a parish priest