Cafeteria Catholics?

[ptrbryant]

DH and I independently chose to become Catholics as adults. For us, it all came down to the issue of authority.
I was raised as a very nominal Protestant. Between my parents, there were 5 divorces. I have 2 half-siblings, both of whom I love. As an adult, feeling spiritually starved, I began attending the Episcopal church, but my experience was that it was ALL about social justice and rarely mentioned the Bible/Jesus/God. A mime was in charge of collections. Weird. Went to a Lutheran Church, where a dear female friend of mine was pastor. Constant internal bickering at the church distracted me and as I studied more about Martin Luther's life, the less comfortable I became being there. I didn't go anywhere for a while, studying Cardinal John Henry Newman's Apologia Pro Vita Sua and other writings. The idea of becoming Catholic was as foreign to me as becoming Hindu, but that is the path that I clearly chose to take.
DH had been raised as a strict Southern Baptist and, as an adult, questioned the huge blank they had on Christian history prior to the Reformation... as if there hadn't been any Christians before that time, as if the Bible had fallen down from Heaven.
I think to be a non-cafeteria Catholic is completely counter-cultural right now. The ideas of personal sacrifice, not having everything that "I" want when "I" want it, detachment from materialism, let alone the concept of humility---not really popular in the West. Yet, there's not a morning that goes by that I don't think of how grateful I am that I found the Church that's right for me.

Karla B.

 

[Dina]

I am so conflicted in my faith. After 12 years of Catholic School, I have many issues with what I was taught. Yep, Cafeteria Catholic here.

 

[goofy!]

Maybe they couldn't handle the liberal thoughts in Belgium, and emigrated because of that?

Rolle Bolle, sure it's written that way?
I know what "rollebollen" means

Hi Sandra,

I was raised Catholic by very liberal Dutch parents. I am thinking that Dutch Catholicism is much like Belgian Catholicism

 

[mickeyfan2]

When I tried to go back to the Catholic church in the early 90's. I was HIV positive,as was my husband...It was believed that the move HIV one was exposed too the sicker one could get..I approached 3 different priests about it..I wanted to use condoms to keep from being exposed to more HIV.. I was told no, just trust in G-d to protect you. When I met Ed, who is HIV neg and I talked to the church about it, I was told that if we married we still were not allowed to use protection..Ed would have to trust in G-d to protect him from HIV..I did have on preist who,while not saying to use condoms,did tell me to use my conscience and that it was between me and G-d..It's taken a while , but I believe that I have heard that the church is now considering letting people who have HIV use condoms...It may not seem to be a big issue to some,but in africa there are many HIV pos kids who are coming of age... They are going to want to marry..This is an issue the church needs to deal with.

The entire world needs to get a grip on this HIV epidemic in Africa.

 

[CEDmom]

I find the entire concept entirely ridiculous. If a man were gay OR straight, as long as they "keep it in the pants" and perform their duties as a priest, then who gives a ding dong dang whether he is straight or gay.

Exactly

 

[mickeyfan2]

DH and I independently chose to become Catholics as adults. For us, it all came down to the issue of authority.
I was raised as a very nominal Protestant. Between my parents, there were 5 divorces. I have 2 half-siblings, both of whom I love. As an adult, feeling spiritually starved, I began attending the Episcopal church, but my experience was that it was ALL about social justice and rarely mentioned the Bible/Jesus/God. A mime was in charge of collections. Weird. Went to a Lutheran Church, where a dear female friend of mine was pastor. Constant internal bickering at the church distracted me and as I studied more about Martin Luther's life, the less comfortable I became being there. I didn't go anywhere for a while, studying Cardinal John Henry Newman's Apologia Pro Vita Sua and other writings. The idea of becoming Catholic was as foreign to me as becoming Hindu, but that is the path that I clearly chose to take.
DH had been raised as a strict Southern Baptist and, as an adult, questioned the huge blank they had on Christian history prior to the Reformation... as if there hadn't been any Christians before that time, as if the Bible had fallen down from Heaven.
I think to be a non-cafeteria Catholic is completely counter-cultural right now. The ideas of personal sacrifice, not having everything that "I" want when "I" want it, detachment from materialism, let alone the concept of humility---not really popular in the West. Yet, there's not a morning that goes by that I don't think of how grateful I am that I found the Church that's right for me.

Karla B.

Thank you for a great story about our faith.

 

[smartestnumber5]

When I tried to go back to the Catholic church in the early 90's. I was HIV positive,as was my husband...It was believed that the move HIV one was exposed too the sicker one could get..I approached 3 different priests about it..I wanted to use condoms to keep from being exposed to more HIV.. I was told no, just trust in G-d to protect you. When I met Ed, who is HIV neg and I talked to the church about it, I was told that if we married we still were not allowed to use protection..Ed would have to trust in G-d to protect him from HIV..I did have on preist who,while not saying to use condoms,did tell me to use my conscience and that it was between me and G-d..It's taken a while , but I believe that I have heard that the church is now considering letting people who have HIV use condoms...It may not seem to be a big issue to some,but in africa there are many HIV pos kids who are coming of age... They are going to want to marry..This is an issue the church needs to deal with.

Such advice should be considered criminal! I mean, at least if the priests had said “Well, condoms aren’t allowed, so I guess you can’t ever have sex” they wouldn’t have been essentially ADVOCATED infecting your new partner. Telling you never, ever to have sex would have been crazy, surely. But still, its loads better than telling you to just go ahead w/ no condoms because God will intervene.

Anyway, how does using a condom stop God from intervening? If God doesn’t want someone to be infected, then doesn’t the existence of a condom make God’s job easier? And if God does want a person to become infected, surely the creator of the universe is capable of making a tiny hole in a piece of latex. (Though the whole idea that God would want a particular person to become infected seems pretty perverse to me.)

 

[CEDmom]

When I tried to go back to the Catholic church in the early 90's. I was HIV positive,as was my husband...It was believed that the move HIV one was exposed too the sicker one could get..I approached 3 different priests about it..I wanted to use condoms to keep from being exposed to more HIV.. I was told no, just trust in G-d to protect you. When I met Ed, who is HIV neg and I talked to the church about it, I was told that if we married we still were not allowed to use protection..Ed would have to trust in G-d to protect him from HIV..I did have on preist who,while not saying to use condoms,did tell me to use my conscience and that it was between me and G-d..It's taken a while , but I believe that I have heard that the church is now considering letting people who have HIV use condoms...It may not seem to be a big issue to some,but in africa there are many HIV pos kids who are coming of age... They are going to want to marry..This is an issue the church needs to deal with.

I know this is any of my business and I don't mean to pick on you. I'm just wondering why someone would feel the need to get the ok from the church on such a private matter. I know this is the basis of this thread - whether you pick and choose what to believe. However, I don't understand people not being able to follow their conscience when it comes to something so personal.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Such advice should be considered criminal! I mean, at least if the priests had said “Well, condoms aren’t allowed, so I guess you can’t ever have sex” they wouldn’t have been essentially ADVOCATED infecting your new partner. Telling you never, ever to have sex would have been crazy, surely. But still, its loads better than telling you to just go ahead w/ no condoms because God will intervene.

Anyway, how does using a condom stop God from intervening? If God doesn’t want someone to be infected, then doesn’t the existence of a condom make God’s job easier? And if God does want a person to become infected, surely the creator of the universe is capable of making a tiny hole in a piece of latex. (Though the whole idea that God would want a particular person to become infected seems pretty perverse to me.)

Honestly the feeling I got was that the preist were NOT comfortable with what they were saying,but didn't know what else to say..This was a long time ago and really , no one was dealing well with the issue of AIDS,not just the Catholic Church. I'm pretty sure I was the first one that mission had ever dealt with in that sort of situation.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I know this is any of my business and I don't mean to pick on you. I'm just wondering why someone would feel the need to get the ok from the church on such a private matter. I know this is the basis of this thread - whether you pick and choose what to believe. However, I don't understand people not being able to follow their conscience when it comes to something so personal.

Because I really genunely want ed to be a good Catholic..I didn't know what the stance was. I was brought up to go to the church with questions if I had them. I couldn't just come online in 1992 and get the catholic stance from somewhere..

 

[CEDmom]

Because I really genunely want ed to be a good Catholic..I didn't know what the stance was. I was brought up to go to the church with questions if I had them. I couldn't just come online in 1992 and get the catholic stance from somewhere..

I'm really sorry you had to go through that. It's sad that you are brought up to believe you can go to your church in times of need and then the doors are slammed in your face.

 

[Dr.Snark]

You know, there is so much misinformation on NFP. Actually, irregular cycles are the perfect reason to go the NFP route - not even through the Church, just in general. You figure out very quickly when and if you ovulate which makes a HUGE difference when you are trying to get pregnant. Knowing that you (not *you* specifically, the general you)don't ovulate is HUGE step in the right direction. Further, 28 day cycles were invented by birth control companies and OB's. They are the gynecological equivalent of an urban myth! Most women are longer, shorter, somewhere in between. Anyway, I digress - I believe firmly in NFP when other medical reasons are not present, and not because I'm Catholic, but because I am decidedly "pro-woman."

Our OB-GYN, with all her years in medical school and years of experience, told us that NFP is equal to parenthood. Great if you want to get pregnant. Not so great for preventing pregnancy.

She has delivered one too many "surprises" conceived during the "safe" times of NFP.

 

[phillybeth]

I find the entire concept entirely ridiculous. If a man were gay OR straight, as long as they "keep it in the pants" and perform their duties as a priest, then who gives a ding dong dang whether he is straight or gay.

I don't even care if they keep in in their pants- celibacy is ridiculous IMO. As long as they keep away from kids, that's good enough for me. Straight or gay makes no nevermind- but pedophiles gotta go.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I'm really sorry you had to go through that. It's sad that you are brought up to believe you can go to your church in times of need and then the doors are slammed in your face.

I was 22 then and niave and unsure...At 36,I am much more secure in my beliefs and would probably not have asked. I would have done what I felt was right and then dealt with G-d when the time came. I wouldn't say they slammed to door in my face...The 2 priests I talked to at that time really seemed genuinely concerned and just had no clue how to deal with the situation. I probably wasn't in the best emotional state back then.. I thought I would be dead within a year or so and really didn't want to die with a Mortal sin on my soul.

 

[CEDmom]

You know, there is so much misinformation on NFP. Actually, irregular cycles are the perfect reason to go the NFP route - not even through the Church, just in general. You figure out very quickly when and if you ovulate which makes a HUGE difference when you are trying to get pregnant. Knowing that you (not *you* specifically, the general you)don't ovulate is HUGE step in the right direction. Further, 28 day cycles were invented by birth control companies and OB's. They are the gynecological equivalent of an urban myth! Most women are longer, shorter, somewhere in between. Anyway, I digress - I believe firmly in NFP when other medical reasons are not present, and not because I'm Catholic, but because I am decidedly "pro-woman."

I'm glad it's worked for you but nothing is 1 size fits all. Additionally, birth control is used for reasons that have nothing to do with preventing pregnancy. The church isn't exactly receptive to that concept either. I remember when DH and I got married he wanted a Priest along with my Episcopal Minister. I was fine with that but we had to go to some meetings with the Priest. He got on the subject of birth control and for some reason I explained I was using it for a medical reason. He said that while the church didn't condone that he was ok as long as I stopped as soon as possible. DH had to hold me back .

 

[CEDmom]

I was 22 then and niave and unsure...At 36,I am much more secure in my beliefs and would probably not have asked. I would have done what I felt was right and then dealt with G-d when the time came. I wouldn't say they slammed to door in my face...The 2 priests I talked to at that time really seemed genuinely concerned and just had no clue how to deal with the situation. I probably wasn't in the best emotional state back then.. I thought I would be dead within a year or so and really didn't want to die with a Mortal sin on my soul.

You're are an amazing woman.

 

[JennyMominRI]

You're are an amazing woman.

I apppreciate that..I have really made some downright stupid choices of the years though.. I look back at some of the ones I made betwen 18 and 25 and I am really just amazed at the sheer stupidity I showed.

 

[CEDmom]

I apppreciate that..I have really made some downright stupid choices of the years though.. I look back at some of the ones I made betwen 18 and 25 and I am really just amazed at the sheer stupidity I showed.

You, me and every other 18-25 yo. Take care.

 

[allie&mattsmom]

I haven't read through all of the replies yet but I will say I guess I am a "cafeteria" Catholic. I am a convert. I was raised Methodist. I converted befored DH and I married. I do go to mass most every week, we send the kids to a catholic school, etc.

Here's probably my biggest thing I struggle with: I don't really believe that you must go to confession to confess your sins. I don't believe you must tell your sins to a priest. I think you can go straight to God. Do I think it makes you feel better sometimes to go sit and talk to someone and get something off of your chest? Is confession really good for the soul? You betcha! But I don't feel it's a major sin if you don't. I think if you lay in bed at night and tell God how sorry you are about something and you truly are, and he knows whether you truly are or not, then that's good enough. That's my belief. Maybe it's my Protestant upbringing.

 

[JoyG]

I used to be a Cafeteria Catholic, but the more I read and prayed about it I realized that it was all about ME. I didn't want to accept certain teachings, I didn't want to believe this or that. I went to a spirituality convocation and the speaker was this wonderful Southern Bishop. The line that really got me was: "Guess what?? It's NOT ABOUT YOU! It's about GOD". I was putting myself in God's shoes and making decisions as if I was in charge.

I LOVE IT! So true, and I agree with every word. You know that goes for other faiths too, like Baptists. The more you read the Bible and pray you realize it's not about you.