Cadence question

[indygirl99]

I attended a good form running clinic and had my running filmed so I could see what I needed to work on. I knew going in that I have plenty of work to do, was a little surprised that I am doing a couple of things right. Head up and forward and arm swing correct.

Today I went out to run/walk/run working on the correct running form. Boy it sure is hard to count your steps, remember to keep your head up, not land wrong on your foot, lean into the run and stay upright all at the same time.

My question is about the cadence. We were told that we should have 180 steps per minute/cadence and to shorten our steps if we needed to so that we accomplished this cadence.

I have been running one min walking one min and doing pretty good with this but my cadence is 120 min. To increase to 180 per min I felt like I was running super fast and got quite winded. In fact I had an asthma attack and ended up walking the rest of the session.

Should I slow back down to the 120 that was working for me (but possibably bad form) or stay at the 180 and decrease the time to 30s run 60s walk and increase the run time as I get more stamina?

The one mile that I did run/walk/run ended up being at a 17:53 mile where as the other day before I knew about good form running my "magic mile" pace was 14:14.

I am training for the Tink in January. Any advise is welcome as I am a total novice at running.

 

[Rupert B Puppenstein]

It is kind of strange that they are actually telling you how many steps you should have. I just attended a school with Jeff Galloway and he said that as long as you were improving each time by one or two steps that it was sufficient because frankly we all take different steps. I think the opposite is happening with you because all that pressure of having to focus on your form, counting, getting to that goal amount of steps is working against you. Form is the most important thing, so I would work on that first, then keeping your feet low to the ground, your stride small, and then your steps. If you go to the runDisney Youtube page, he explains cadence very well and the exercises associated with it. He did the exercises with us during the school and it didn't seem nearly as complicated. It isn't good if what you learned is slowing you down. Good Luck!

 

[John VN]

There are many elements involved in walking/jogging/running that must be combined to perform to your maximum potential. Just because you have been told by an "expert" that you should be doing this or that does not mean it will work for you. Please do not drastically alter your entire style all at once because doing so, could result in injuries.

I would suggest that you continue to work on the other factors until they are totally automatic and then you can work on quickening your cadence. Many people will never be able to get to 180spm and they shouldn't attempt to do so if their overall performance suffers.

My Magic Mile is 8:16 walking and that requires a very high cadence but it took me almost a year of commitment to perfecting my walking technique to achieve it. Bad knees prevented me from jogging or running so I had no option but to train to walk faster.

Small incremental increases in cadence are much easier to achieve with no negative results, i.e.-slowing down, so take things slowly. Also, a good base with lots of miles will help everything come together easier.

 

[cewait]

Devote 1-2 sessions a week to work on turnover. This is also called speed work. These sessions start with a warm-up and then a series of short (up to a mile) intervals of fast intervals then a warm down

Running speed = stride length x turnover...... Stride length is mostly fixed for the general running public. So that leaves turnover for most of us. Usually, what I find in a runner who is relatively new and who is trying to speed up is a runner trying to speed up through over reaching on their stride length. The easiest way to increase speed is kind of counter intuitive and that is to shorten stride then up the turnover. By shortening the stride, the runner will go from a hard heal striker to a mid foot striker. The reason behind the 180 turnover (or 90 rpm) is that is on average is the most efficient rate for the human body.

Saying all that, it is not the most efficient for everyone. I say ranges from about 160 through 180 being the goal for most runners.

Here is what you experienced and why you need to work up to a faster cadence. Its a simple function of turnover = oxygen uptake = heart rate. By increasing your turnover by 50% your body felt like it was sprinting. Work for the next month on the midweek runs trying to maintain a 130-140 turnover during those runs. It's a small increase and one that should be manageable. Remember to feel like you are shortening your stride by just an inch - you should feel like you are landing on the outer rim of the front of the heal. After a month, evaluate and see where you are. Then if you can bump up these mid week run turnovers to the 140-150 range. Continue until you can comfortably hit the 160-180 range.

Note you may not get there before your goal race and that is OK. You may have noted that I did not mention pushing turnover on your longer weekend runs..... I would not worry. If you are speeding up the midweek turnover the weekends will naturally follow.

I do have a question... Do you have access to a health club? If so, get into a cycle class. You will be able to learn the feel of a 90 rpm cadence in that setting. This will help you develop the awareness of what a 80-90 rpm cadence feels like. Also, running the midweek session on a mill at 4-6% incline will help you focus on turnover.

Final thought... While a 120 turnover is not the preferred turnover it may be all that you can manage. I do not know who you are physically so there may be contra-indications that would prevent you from going there. We are all different and that may be your physical speed limit. Though, with work, I think we can speed that up.


Hang in there.

 

[Reep]

Devote 1-2 sessions a week to work on turnover. This is also called speed work. These sessions start with a warm-up and then a series of short (up to a mile) intervals of fast intervals then a warm down

. . .
The reason behind the 180 turnover (or 90 rpm) is that is on average is the most efficient rate for the human body.

Saying all that, it is not the most efficient for everyone. I say ranges from about 160 through 180 being the goal for most runners.

+1

180 is a great goal to get to, but it does require a slow workup. The funny thing is that it really is the same for most people regardless of height. It also can be a great way to keep on pace when you are tired in a race. Once I get tired starting at somewhere in the 8-10 mile range for a half, I focus mainly on my cadence. If I keep at 180, then usually my pace will follow.

 

[johde]

I'm going to agree with everyone else. Trying to jump to 180 all at once is probably counter productive. It's better to slowly work on building your cadence. Jeff Galloway does a shorter Cadence drill where you count your steps for 30 sec. take a break then try to improve it by 1 or 2 steps over 4-8 repetitions.

 

[bigdave10000]

Running form isn't a problem until you start worrying about it. Have you ever seen Paula Ratcliffe run? I am sure if she went to the same place you did they would have tried to "fix" her form.

Reep and cewait made good comments about stride rate. The important thing about having a higher stride rate is that it keeps you from over striding. Over striding is bad and will lead to injuries. Running more and speed work will improve your stride rate and Running Economy. Cewait already explained speed work.

Another thing you can add a couple of times a week are some strides. Strides are NOT speed work. You want to stay relaxed and fully recover. At the end of a run start by jogging slow then smoothly increase speed to a fast speed but not a sprint. Hold it for a few seconds then slow back down. Then turn around and either jog back to where you started or walk back. The important thing is to stay relaxed and be FULLY recovered before doing the next one. Don't do them on a track or time yourself. You are trying to avoid making them hard. I try to do 4-8 a couple of times a week.

 

[indygirl99]

Thank you everyone for the replies and sound advise. Having the asthma attack showed me that I can't get there overnight. The guy at the clinic just made it sound so easy, NOT!

I did go to youtube and looked at Jeff Galloway's clips. They make so much sense. I will add a cycle class to my week for cross training and to get the feel for the increased cadence. I will also work on increasing slooooowly as you suggest Coach. And then my long runs I can just work on spending time getting some increasing distance.

The shorter stride is something that I naturally do but I do notice that I increase and reach when I get tired.

So goal for the next four weeks: Cycle class once a week. Speed session once a week at a 4% incline. Work on increasing my strides to 130, if able to do this in 2 wks then work on 140 the next 2 weeks. I am enjoying running outside while we have no rain, of course the 90 degree weather can also leave. So I will continue to run one short session outside.

I also will spend some time checking out Jeff Galoways videos and reading his training advise. I also think I will get a training log made for runners to better focus what I am doing, what is not working and what is working.

You guys are great, again thanks.

 

[Rose&Mike]

I wanted to add--that increasing your cadence is doable, but I also found it difficult at first. After several months I am now consistently hitting between 170 and 180 strides per minute. I found that I over stride when I am tired as well and start reaching out too much. I had to really work on concentrating on leaning forward and paying attention to how I was landing. At first the whole thing was exhausting and I hated it, but after two and a half months of very consciously running like this I am really feeling good about it. My feet are feeling better since I am landing better and no longer reaching out and my speed is slowly coming back. The newton running shoes website also talks about running form/cadence, etc, and it is pretty easy to understand. Of course, it is geared to their shoes, but it definitely helped me to understand what I needed to work on. Good luck!

 

[tedhowe]

I'll add another novice voice to the conversation.

You can increase your cadence over time, but just like you wouldn't expect to go out and run a faster time right away, don't expect to go out and run a higher cadence right away. It takes time.

When I started running back in February, my cadence was in the 120-130 range. As I became more comfortable running and started (for other reasons) shortening my stride, my cadence started to increase.

Its just in the last few weeks that I am consistently at or above 170 in my average cadence for my runs... and in the last week I've had two runs that were nearly at 180... I'm not particularly trying to make my cadence be in that range, but when I'm running comfortably that seems to be where it is settling into - right about 175.