Buyers/Sellers BEWARE!!!

we"reofftoneverland

DIS Veteran
Joined
Aug 5, 2015
If brokers will never present lower offers to sellers, they ARE artificially keeping prices higher than sellers may be willing to sell at, however, and then catering the market only to those willing to pay the higher price. If brokers weren't preventing lower prices from going to sellers, there's a good chance the average selling price might be a little lower than what we are seeing now.

I had one broker at www.dvcresalemarket.com refuse to send an offer to a buyer because they would want to buy it themselves at that price (and I imagine turn around and sell it for a higher price). They also told me that the price was too low and that no seller would accept it. Except that I literally had purchased a contract for that exact price on a fully loaded contract only a month before.

Brokers don't control the market, but I think you are undervaluing the influence they have in ensuring low price offers that a buyer might be willing to accept never make it to the buyer, and thus they do have influence in keeping prices higher than the market might actually bear.

I have purchased 11 resale contracts over time, and only 4 of them did I ever pay the actual asking price. But I think that's why I value brokers at www.fidelityresales.com, www.*************.com, and www.DVCbyResale.com who have all been willing to work with me and presented my offers to the buyers, allowing US to negotiate on what is a fair price.
We have had great experiences with fidelity.
 

ABE4DISNEY

There's a great, big, beautiful tomorrow...
Joined
Feb 16, 2009
We have had great experiences with fidelity.
Love their prices (although they seem to be getting a bit steep lately) but their customer service is "meh." It doesn't mean I won't shop with them, but I know it will be a bumpier path.
 
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Wedgeout

Mouseketeer
Joined
Aug 27, 2020
I think resale brokers, just like the Disney guides, each having different personality, guidelines, and sales styles. Brokers assist both the sellers and buyers. Sure taking and presenting all offers is nice. If I was a seller, a respectful “no thank you” response is easy enough. There could be set offer amounts that the seller doesn’t even want to see, letting the broker cut off anything outside their window immediately.
 
  • Grumpy by Birth

    “I AM smiling.”
    Joined
    May 27, 2017
    Aww, I hate to see posts like this. I have bought and sold with them many times since 2017 (sold 3 this month) and Lori and Mark have always been super responsive and professional. On my most recent sale (it was yesterday) Lori was questioning me as to why I wasn't accepting an offer within $2/point of asking. I told her I had listed it as "firm price" on the website and she immediately backed off but suggested listing it higher so there was bargaining room. ((Maybe it was you Kat4Disney?😄)) I did so and the same buyer came back and deal was done at my desired price within five minutes of our discussion.

    Just my opinion, I really don't think this is a company you need to consider in the "beware of" category.
    Interesting psychology at work here. People want to feel like they got a deal. So, rather than listing at $100/pp firm, listing at $110/pp to give "wiggle room" for negotiation makes sense. The buyer might offer $105/pp and feel that they got a deal, but the seller still made $5/pp more than what they would have been willing to accept. You might even get a buyer willing to pay $110. So, I can see why sellers/brokers would lean toward listing things too high and leaving room for negotiation.

    It's on odd thing on the dues - a lot of resale brokers will insist over and over that if the points are there then the buyer should reimburse for the dues. It's even a common misconception here on it but most just accept it as the way it is. In the end I consider there's a price I'm willing to pay. Full price and no dues reimbursement or lower price/pt with dues reimbursement gets you to the same overall price. One is more agreeable than the other and it's rarely asking to not reimburse for dues. :rolleyes2 Now when it gets to banked points or late in the year then suddenly that often changes. Just one of the weird quirks of resale that is hard to convince any brokers about and they often do the recommendations to the sellers.
    Many people don't seem to get that the bottom line is just that. If a seller wants $15K for a 100-point contract, does it really matter whether they get it in the form of $130/pp plus $2K dues or they get $150/pp without dues reimbursed? Either way, they get $15K.

    In fact, I think factoring dues into the per point price rather than charging it separately could theoretically work better for everyone. Do brokers get any commission on the reimbursed dues? If not, then they should want to have a higher price per point with seller covering dues as this would increase their commission on the same offer amount. If they get commission on the bottom line either way, then I suppose they would prefer lower price per point with dues added because that seems like more of a deal and perhaps gets more contracts sold more quickly. Otherwise, higher price per point with seller covering dues still gets seller the same bottom line.

    ROFR might be affected... obviously a higher price per point stands a better chance of passing ROFR. But, Disney also would presumably be doing the math to determine the total cost. With the seller paying dues, Disney might be just as likely to take it.
     
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    lovethesun12

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jul 5, 2017
    Aside from any sort of price fixing, the market always dictates the price. If you tell a seller that they can get $xxx/pt or $xxx+10/pt which do you think they will want? And if a buyer is willing to pay the higher amount then what seller, and what broker, in their right mind is going to ask to take less instead? You can list at whatever crazy price you want but without willing buyers the prices won't increase. People seem to think brokers have much more market influence than they actually do.
    I would disagree and I don't think the seller is necessarily better off. Based on the consistent (and sometimes inconsistent) prices I've seen, I feel pretty certain some brokers will purchase a contract at a very low price themselves and turn around and sell it at a higher price, while other brokers will post the contract at the original low price for anyone to buy.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    I would disagree and I don't think the seller is necessarily better off. Based on the consistent (and sometimes inconsistent) prices I've seen, I feel pretty certain some brokers will purchase a contract at a very low price themselves and turn around and sell it at a higher price, while other brokers will post the contract at the original low price for anyone to buy.
    That is just a few who offer the low to resell higher. Sellers are in control in the end and ultimately decide what to accept.

    If buyers are paying the price they have determined it was a good deal for them,

    Obviously, as a seller, you want the most, but I recently sold $8 and $10 less because I did not want to wait to see if it would go.

    Some are willing to wait it out and if they don’t get it not sell. Lots of factors that go into the prices, but you only need one buyer to decide it’s worth the price.
     

    Lorana

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 30, 2001
    That is just a few who offer the low to resell higher. Sellers are in control in the end and ultimately decide what to accept.

    If buyers are paying the price they have determined it was a good deal for them,

    Obviously, as a seller, you want the most, but I recently sold $8 and $10 less because I did not want to wait to see if it would go.

    Some are willing to wait it out and if they don’t get it not sell. Lots of factors that go into the prices, but you only need one buyer to decide it’s worth the price.
    Agreed, but I think the point is that we need brokers to present the offers to a buyer for a buyer to decide it's worth the price. :)
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Agreed, but I think the point is that we need brokers to present the offers to a buyer for a buyer to decide it's worth the price. :)
    Yes, a broker needs to unless it’s part of the agreement with the seller. When I was selling, after I got a few low offers, I told the broker I wasn’t going less than $119 so not to bother me if it was less than that. It was listed at $125.

    But, in this case, I can’t believe a seller said full price offers with no adjustments. Even so, I would have presented it.
     

    gmflash88

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jul 31, 2012
    So I’ve read this entire thread and many others over the last few months and am wondering if someone can point me to a list of reputable brokers? I’ll be purchasing our first contract in the coming months and right now I’m sort of overwhelmed by all the sites. I don’t know what the rules are here for posting so I won’t bother listing any companies or URLs, but I’d appreciate any input. Thanks all!
     

    Wedgeout

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 27, 2020
    So I’ve read this entire thread and many others over the last few months and am wondering if someone can point me to a list of reputable brokers? I’ll be purchasing our first contract in the coming months and right now I’m sort of overwhelmed by all the sites. I don’t know what the rules are here for posting so I won’t bother listing any companies or URLs, but I’d appreciate any input. Thanks all!
    I feel the “Closing Time!!” Thread is a good source for broker research.
     

    poofyo101

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 13, 2019
    So I’ve read this entire thread and many others over the last few months and am wondering if someone can point me to a list of reputable brokers? I’ll be purchasing our first contract in the coming months and right now I’m sort of overwhelmed by all the sites. I don’t know what the rules are here for posting so I won’t bother listing any companies or URLs, but I’d appreciate any input. Thanks all!
    in my opinion you can use all the brokers. Do not let a few bad transactions you hear about scare you away from any reputable broker. Things happen sometimes but doesn't mean that I would not use them.
     

    KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    in my opinion you can use all the brokers. Do not let a few bad transactions you hear about scare you away from any reputable broker. Things happen sometimes but doesn't mean that I would not use them.
    I agree. Look for the contract that works best for you across all the brokers.
     

    we"reofftoneverland

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 5, 2015
    So I’ve read this entire thread and many others over the last few months and am wondering if someone can point me to a list of reputable brokers? I’ll be purchasing our first contract in the coming months and right now I’m sort of overwhelmed by all the sites. I don’t know what the rules are here for posting so I won’t bother listing any companies or URLs, but I’d appreciate any input. Thanks all!
    Fidelityresales
    Dvcstore
    **********
     

    Doberge

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jun 12, 2017
    Many people don't seem to get that the bottom line is just that. If a seller wants $15K for a 100-point contract, does it really matter whether they get it in the form of $130/pp plus $2K dues or they get $150 without dues reimbursed? Either way, they get $15K.
    Amen! It's a lot of psychology to get to the same point. This is largely how I choose to negotiate cars with trade-ins. I don't care what the car costs relative to the trade in price I'm offered, but when it gets close I pick my number and say "get me out tax title license trade-in everything for $x and we've got a deal." Then they figure out how to adjust trade in and purchase numbers however they want, or I just walk away.
     

    Doberge

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jun 12, 2017
    It's important to remember that brokers 0serve no one but the seller. The broker is *not* your friend trying get you a great deal. On their commission work they are 100% incentived to get best value for the seller. It's scaremongering to do any more than casually warn a potential buyer that a low offer may not pass ROFR. To not pass an offer to a seller of basis of not passing ROFR is ridiculous, that's 100% buyer risk.

    The most strange thing I've learned, at least with the one broker I worked with as a buyer, is that the first offer made creates an exclusive negotiating window between offeror and seller. I explicitly asked "so if someone comes after me and objectively makes a better offer than me, is presented to the buyer?" And I was told "not unless either side ends negotiating." And I thought "wow, this is nuts ... buyers aren't even necessarily being given *all* offers."
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    It's important to remember that brokers 0serve no one but the seller. The broker is *not* your friend trying get you a great deal. On their commission work they are 100% incentived to get best value for the seller. It's scaremongering to do any more than casually warn a potential buyer that a low offer may not pass ROFR. To not pass an offer to a seller of basis of not passing ROFR is ridiculous, that's 100% buyer risk.

    The most strange thing I've learned, at least with the one broker I worked with as a buyer, is that the first offer made creates an exclusive negotiating window between offeror and seller. I explicitly asked "so if someone comes after me and objectively makes a better offer than me, is presented to the buyer?" And I was told "not unless either side ends negotiating." And I thought "wow, this is nuts ... buyers aren't even necessarily being given *all* offers."
    I know that sometimes there are multiple offers on a contract that get submitted to the seller. i

    I have heard that sometimes an owner will not act on an offer right away in case of this. Or
     

    MICKIMINI

    Love the Mouse!
    Joined
    Sep 6, 2003
    in my opinion you can use all the brokers. Do not let a few bad transactions you hear about scare you away from any reputable broker. Things happen sometimes but doesn't mean that I would not use them.
    I totally agree. I had several bad experiences this summer with different brokers. I just picked up two perfect contracts with one of those brokers two weeks ago. Apparently I insulted someone with a low bid back in May, which I knew was low but I thought fair and was dropped from the email list for deals. That was childish.

    I continued to watch for contracts and it just worked out. In the end, they are contracts I wanted and I got them (if ROFR doesn't take them). I could have waited until the cows came home for the combination of UY, resort and size of contracts and price not to mention the closing company is bundling for one closing (50% off).

    I don't particularly care for those brokers or their "system" and won't go out of my way to work with them but I won't let my stubbornness get in the way. It is up to each buyer to judge who they want to work with.
     

    we"reofftoneverland

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 5, 2015
    It's important to remember that brokers 0serve no one but the seller. The broker is *not* your friend trying get you a great deal. On their commission work they are 100% incentived to get best value for the seller. It's scaremongering to do any more than casually warn a potential buyer that a low offer may not pass ROFR. To not pass an offer to a seller of basis of not passing ROFR is ridiculous, that's 100% buyer risk.

    The most strange thing I've learned, at least with the one broker I worked with as a buyer, is that the first offer made creates an exclusive negotiating window between offeror and seller. I explicitly asked "so if someone comes after me and objectively makes a better offer than me, is presented to the buyer?" And I was told "not unless either side ends negotiating." And I thought "wow, this is nuts ... buyers aren't even necessarily being given *all* offers."
    Actually they are supposed to be working for the seller and buyer. It is a bad system, unlike in a real estate deal, where each has their own representation.
     

    ABE4DISNEY

    There's a great, big, beautiful tomorrow...
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2009
    in my opinion you can use all the brokers. Do not let a few bad transactions you hear about scare you away from any reputable broker. Things happen sometimes but doesn't mean that I would not use them.
    You took the words right out of my mouth!! :thumbsup2
     

    crisi

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 25, 2002
    If brokers will never present lower offers to sellers, they ARE artificially keeping prices higher than sellers may be willing to sell at, however, and then catering the market only to those willing to pay the higher price. If brokers weren't preventing lower prices from going to sellers, there's a good chance the average selling price might be a little lower than what we are seeing now.
    I have said this before, but when I sell real estate, my listing price is a fair price, and I don't want to deal with negotiations. The sticker price is the price, if you want to negotiate lower, find someone else's real estate. So if you bid on my contract, the broker may not contact me at all because they know I'll come back to them with no, but I might not get to looking at it for a bit because my answer is going to be no and the reason for a no negotiations policy is I don't want to bother. If the broker needs to present all fair offers to me legally, they'll have do their duty. If my contract doesn't sell in a reasonable time frame at the price I've set, I'll lower the price. But I'm not negotiating.
     

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