Buyers/Sellers BEWARE!!!

Cupcake232

Mouseketeer
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
I called https://www.dvcsales.com/ to see if I could put in an offer for the full list price of a contract with the seller paying the 2020 annual dues, as these should have already been paid in January and the 2021 dues will be coming right around the corner. This would help with the amount of cash needed at closing (especially if the 2021 dues need to be paid then as well). When i called, I spoke with Lori and she had many reasons for why she could not take the offer. She stated that her computer couldn’t generate the request, so I asked if she would call the seller. She said she could but after talking in circles, admitted that she wasn’t willing to call him. Then she went on to tell me it would get taken at ROFR and if I were her sister she would tell me the same thing and so on.
I find it very unethical that if someone is calling with an offer, that offer is not presented to the seller for the seller to decide whether or not they are willing to accept or decline the offer. I also found it unethical that as the listing broker, she was giving me information regarding the seller. She stated that he was an older man and that he didn’t want to mess around with online offers and yet, she still would NOT call him! I then sent an email to Mark asking to hear back from him leaving my phone number in the email. He has not responded and today is day 2. I am a current DVC Member and I fully understand the process for resale contracts and the possibility of ROFR, which I also feel, if the seller and buyer agree to a price, is my concern as the buyer and not Lori’s. I would not do business with this company and would warn anyone to proceed with caution if they do!
 
  • PaulW08

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 19, 2017
    I have my own short www.dvcsales.com story. I did like their system and how easy it was to make an offer directly to the sellers. I made a couple of offers on two listings, about $15 below listing prices, nothing unreasonable in my opinion. I've done this with other brokers and it's been no problem. The next day I tried to login only to see my account was "locked."

    They didn't cite why, but I think it's because in their eyes I was low balling. It is what it is, so I moved on and found a great deal with another broker.
     

    Jecks

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Aug 2, 2020
    Wow, that’s terrible. I’m in the process of purchasing 150 VGF points from DVC Store. It just passed ROFR yesterday.

    I wonder why they, meaning the broker, wouldn’t entertain the offer. Maybe the seller made it clear that he wouldn’t take anything less than his ask?

    I’d call back and speak to someone else or just wait for a new listing with a better broker. Good luck either way! I hope you find another contract that works for you 🙂


    btw, when I originally responded I totally thought you said DVCstore, not DVCsales. I was floored that I had such a great experience and you had such a terrible one. Makes more sense now because I read too quickly!
     

    Cupcake232

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 1, 2020
    I have my own short www.dvcsales.com story. I did like their system and how easy it was to make an offer directly to the sellers. I made a couple of offers on two listings, about $15 below listing prices, nothing unreasonable in my opinion. I've done this with other brokers and it's been no problem. The next day I tried to login only to see my account was "locked."

    They didn't cite why, but I think it's because in their eyes I was low balling. It is what it is, so I moved on and found a great deal with another broker.
    I also had my account deleted after I voiced my concerns. Again, very unethical and unprofessional.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Sorry about your experience. They do not have to present all offers if a seller as given them guidance or permission to decide,

    However, it does certainly appear that a full price offer, with only the dues being covered, would not be attractive enough to bring to the seller,

    Frustrating for sure!
     

    Cupcake232

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 1, 2020
    Wow, that’s terrible. I’m in the process of purchasing 150 VGF points from them. I have a fair, yet on the lower side offer and the sellers accepted without a counter. It just passed ROFR yesterday. I wonder why they, meaning the broker, wouldn’t entertain the offer. Maybe the seller made it clear that he wouldn’t take anything less than his ask?

    I’d call back and speak to someone else like Jamie or Jerry. They were great to work with as a buyer just 5 weeks ago. They gave me honest and fair advice because I was afraid I wouldn’t pass ROFR...they spent the time to go through a bunch of recent closings and told me they thought I would be fine...and I was. Good luck either way! I hope you find another contract that works for you 🙂
    I will not go through them now that this happened. The price point that was being asked was a low price point, my concern was if the contract closed after December 1st, then I would owe both. She also wasn’t willing to make the list price higher to help offset the difference in the dues. Again, she just talked in circles and in the end said she was unwilling to call the buyer with the offer.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Wow, that’s terrible. I’m in the process of purchasing 150 VGF points from them. I have a fair, yet on the lower side offer and the sellers accepted without a counter. It just passed ROFR yesterday. I wonder why they, meaning the broker, wouldn’t entertain the offer. Maybe the seller made it clear that he wouldn’t take anything less than his ask?

    I’d call back and speak to someone else like Jamie or Jerry. They were great to work with as a buyer just 5 weeks ago. They gave me honest and fair advice because I was afraid I wouldn’t pass ROFR...they spent the time to go through a bunch of recent closings and told me they thought I would be fine...and I was. Good luck either way! I hope you find another contract that works for you 🙂
    I know this is a silly comment, since you know who you bought through, but most reference we have for Jamie and Jerry are brokers from www.dvcstore.com.

    This is not that company.
     

    Cupcake232

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 1, 2020
    Sorry about your experience. They do not have to present all offers if a seller as given them guidance or permission to decide,

    However, it does certainly appear that a full price offer, with only the dues being covered, would not be attractive enough to bring to the seller,

    Frustrating for sure!
    Unfortunately, I think this is a common occurrence for them as I had posted this earlier, not realizing I had to use the company link in my post, so it was deleted. There were other replies from people who had similar experiences. I can say that if I were a seller, I would not want anyone else making calls on my contract.
     

    Sandisw

    DVC Forums
    Moderator
    Joined
    Nov 15, 2008
    Unfortunately, I think this is a common occurrence for them as I had posted this earlier, not realizing I had to use the company link in my post, so it was deleted. There were other replies from people who had similar experiences. I can say that if I were a seller, I would not want anyone else making calls on my contract.
    There are people who do, but in this case, it was pretty close to a full offer so something was off,

    It doesn’t sound link they are very originated. So many other brokers you will find the right contract with the right one!
     

    Bing Showei

    DIS Veteran
    DVC Gold
    Joined
    Sep 10, 2017
    I understand your frustration, but maybe don't take it so personally. It's pretty bad business practice, but I'm not sure I'd throw around labels like "unethical." As Sandi suggested, it may be the seller was like, "Dude. Protect me from lowballers. I hate those people." I think it's a function of the asinine pricing system they have in place for handling nuanced offers.

    Two years ago when I was in the market for a contract, Mark called to "have a chat" with me at one point about how my offers were hurting his business and causing frustration to his sellers. My first thought was, "Yeah. Not my problem."

    While the tone of the conversation started with him trying to "educate" me about the process of buying a resale contract (I already had two successful resale purchases in my portfolio, at this point), the tone changed when I outlined how poorly thought out their practice of forcing buyers to deduct any annual dues, closing costs, etc., from the price-per-point offer was. This is just a lazy way to facilitate negotiations.

    An owner having paid 2020 dues, for example, may not be as adverse in September to not be reimbursed for those 2020 points. But under their system, suddenly a $100 offer on an SSR contract would look to be a $94/pt offer. Mathematically it all works out the same, but that $/pt may prove to be an insurmountable difference for a seller, even if just nominal.

    I made my point about how their practice is a disservice to their sellers and could be interpreted as being a lazy reliance on an automated system to deal with all of their contract negotiations. Not sure what the real justification is.

    All that said, as a buyer, I would buy from them if they had the right contract and were willing to present my offer to the seller. I would just be prepared to play by their short-sighted rules if I did.
     

    TinkB278

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 27, 2017
    Unfortunately, I think this is a common occurrence for them as I had posted this earlier, not realizing I had to use the company link in my post, so it was deleted. There were other replies from people who had similar experiences. I can say that if I were a seller, I would not want anyone else making calls on my contract.
    Yes I had a similar experience! I asked if I could make an offer that the seller pay the dues and she said no.
     

    Cupcake232

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 1, 2020
    I understand your frustration, but maybe don't take it so personally. It's pretty bad business practice, but I'm not sure I'd throw around labels like "unethical." As Sandi suggested, it may be the seller was like, "Dude. Protect me from lowballers. I hate those people." I think it's a function of the asinine pricing system they have in place for handling nuanced offers.

    Two years ago when I was in the market for a contract, Mark called to "have a chat" with me at one point about how my offers were hurting his business and causing frustration to his sellers. My first thought was, "Yeah. Not my problem."

    While the tone of the conversation started with him trying to "educate" me about the process of buying a resale contract (I already had two successful resale purchases in my portfolio, at this point), the tone changed when I outlined how poorly thought out their practice of forcing buyers to deduct any annual dues, closing costs, etc., from the price-per-point offer was. This is just a lazy way to facilitate negotiations.

    An owner having paid 2020 dues, for example, may not be as adverse in September to not be reimbursed for those 2020 points. But under their system, suddenly a $100 offer on an SSR contract would look to be a $94/pt offer. Mathematically it all works out the same, but that $/pt may prove to be an insurmountable difference for a seller, even if just nominal.

    I made my point about how their practice is a disservice to their sellers and could be interpreted as being a lazy reliance on an automated system to deal with all of their contract negotiations. Not sure what the real justification is.

    All that said, as a buyer, I would buy from them if they had the right contract and were willing to present my offer to the seller. I would just be prepared to play by their short-sighted rules if I did.
    I can understand what you are saying. I’m not taking it personally. I just feel it’s bad business on their part and don’t want an unsuspected seller to get caught up in this. During my conversation, Lori told me that she tried to convince the seller to list his property at a higher price per point but that he didn’t want to (his choice). I was willing to pay what he was asking for the points, my only concern being the double dues at closing. She talked in circles and said a lot of things that didn’t make sense as to why she couldn’t send the offer (including her computer system wouldn’t allow her to do so) and in the end, said she could call him but that she wouldn’t. If I were the seller and it were almost October, I think I would want to see that offer. Which is why I felt the need to post.
     

    KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    I bought from them in the past and they were responsive and I had no issues. I also recently made an offer with thru them via online and while the seller and I did not come to an agreement I had the same experience with them as in the past and also similar to other brokers. The seller would not budge even a dollar on the contract I offered on and sometimes that happens. Just a different experience and I can't say what the nuances were with your offer. My experience means I'd deal with them again if they had a listing I was interested in.
     

    SherylLC

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Jul 29, 2017
    Aww, I hate to see posts like this. I have bought and sold with them many times since 2017 (sold 3 this month) and Lori and Mark have always been super responsive and professional. On my most recent sale (it was yesterday) Lori was questioning me as to why I wasn't accepting an offer within $2/point of asking. I told her I had listed it as "firm price" on the website and she immediately backed off but suggested listing it higher so there was bargaining room. ((Maybe it was you Kat4Disney?😄)) I did so and the same buyer came back and deal was done at my desired price within five minutes of our discussion.

    Just my opinion, I really don't think this is a company you need to consider in the "beware of" category.
     

    KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    Aww, I hate to see posts like this. I have bought and sold with them many times since 2017 (sold 3 this month) and Lori and Mark have always been super responsive and professional. On my most recent sale (it was yesterday) Lori was questioning me as to why I wasn't accepting an offer within $2/point of asking. I told her I had listed it as "firm price" on the website and she immediately backed off but suggested listing it higher so there was bargaining room. ((Maybe it was you Kat4Disney?😄)) I did so and the same buyer came back and deal was done at my desired price within five minutes of our discussion.

    Just my opinion, I really don't think this is a company you need to consider in the "beware of" category.
    Hmmmm - maybe! :lmao: Actually there was no note of it being a firm price so probably not. :)
     

    Ssplashhmtn

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Sep 18, 2020
    I can understand what you are saying. I’m not taking it personally. I just feel it’s bad business on their part and don’t want an unsuspected seller to get caught up in this. During my conversation, Lori told me that she tried to convince the seller to list his property at a higher price per point but that he didn’t want to (his choice). I was willing to pay what he was asking for the points, my only concern being the double dues at closing. She talked in circles and said a lot of things that didn’t make sense as to why she couldn’t send the offer (including her computer system wouldn’t allow her to do so) and in the end, said she could call him but that she wouldn’t. If I were the seller and it were almost October, I think I would want to see that offer. Which is why I felt the need to post.
    I am fascinated by all of these comments, because I independently had a very similar experience with them, and assumed it was just me. I am new to the DVC buying process, and Mark effectively talked me out of making an offer on one of their contracts. He sort of scoffed and said ”sure go ahead” but indicated I was wasting my time as “it will get taken in ROFR, there’s no chance it passes“. This seems to be their line. (By the way, maybe he was right...and I should appreciate the candor). To be clear, he was ultimately very respectful, and agreed to take the offer if I really wanted to go online and fill out the form. My next roadblock was how to handle 2020 dues, which couldn’t be addressed in the online offer, so I moved along.

    I now have 5 contracts sitting in the rofr process, all with other brokers. I don’t have a problem with Mark. But after the first interaction, I just didn’t feel we’d get a deal done, and found plenty of others.
     

    KAT4DISNEY

    Glad to be a test subject
    Joined
    Mar 17, 2008
    I am fascinated by all of these comments, because I independently had a very similar experience with them, and assumed it was just me. I am new to the DVC buying process, and Mark effectively talked me out of making an offer on one of their contracts. He sort of scoffed and said ”sure go ahead” but indicated I was wasting my time as “it will get taken in ROFR, there’s no chance it passes“. This seems to be their line. (By the way, maybe he was right...and I should appreciate the candor). To be clear, he was ultimately very respectful, and agreed to take the offer if I really wanted to go online and fill out the form. My next roadblock was how handle 2020 dues, which couldn’t be addressed in the online offer, so I moved along.

    I now have 5 contracts sitting in the rofr process, all with other brokers. I don’t have a problem with Mark. But after the first interaction, I just didn’t feel we’d get a deal done, and found plenty of others.
    I've had other brokers give me advice on ROFR - or try to give me advice on ROFR ;) - so that wouldn't be exclusive to Mark and Lori either. And a lot of brokers over the years state that not paying the dues if your getting points isn't right and isn't done - but again that also comes from other brokers - actually most of them. I have questioned the fact with most of them about really being transactional brokers but that's pretty much come from them all at times over the years. What I didn't know was that it sounds like Mark and Lori only accept offers online which happened to be what I did with them.
     
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