Buyer Beware- members are losing points over the COVID-19 situation

[CheapMom]

I'm losing a couple hundred points because my trip was cancelled and points with expire before anything reopens. Will deposit in RCI but as of now, they have no family suites available for our dates in USA, Caribbean or Europe. It's ok, I hit my break even point years ago and it's not the end of the world.

BUT my heart is breaking for new members who paid $188 per point and laid out a ton of cash and banked and borrowed for their welcome home trip only to have their trips cancelled and their points set to expire before the resorts reopen.

Non-DVC members who have to cancel are getting refunds. DVC is acting legally and members need to understand that this is one of the risks when they enter the contract.

If Disney can't allow extended banking for everyone, I hope they at least do it for new members.

 

[Gordon Gekko]

So sorry to hear about your situation. We have been considering purchasing for a few years now but love the option of renting points without the big commitment. The only way I see us purchasing now is if prices sharply decline.

 

[Sandisw]

The rules do allow that those buying direct to have points banked beyond deadline,

Disney made sure to give themselves that power in order to continue sales of contracts during the last 4 months of UY.

But I agree, it is really important when purchasing to understand UY and the risk of traveling late with either banked points, or points no longer eligible to be banked.

One also has to remember you are becoming a real estate owner and no longer a cash guest. Which means, that Disney is no longer responsible for making things right, like we see with cash guests,

It is owners, and our associations, that are responsible for it all, including the losses that may occur, for a variety of reasons.

 

[Frogman88]

The reality is people are going to lose points but the bigger reality is people are losing lives.
Also other folks took bigger hits financially so be ready to lose more than points.
Learn to lose and adjust.

This Is why I financed I felt 2020 wasn't going to be an easy year so if Disney decides to pull out I’m already gone.

 

[CheapMom]

The rules do allow that those buying direct to have points banked beyond deadline,

Disney made sure to give themselves that power in order to continue sales of contracts during the last 4 months of UY.

But I agree, it is really important when purchasing to understand UY and the risk of traveling late with either banked points, or points no longer eligible to be banked.

One also has to remember you are becoming a real estate owner and no longer a cash guest. Which means, that Disney is no longer responsible for making things right, like we see with cash guests,

It is owners, and our associations, that are responsible for it all, including the losses that may occur, for a variety of reasons.

I purchased direct and I am not allowed to bank my June UY points from my cancelled trip. Do you mean 1st year members only?

 

[CarolMN]

I purchased direct and I am not allowed to bank my June UY points from my cancelled trip. Do you mean 1st year members only?

She meant for new buyers, not anyone who owns direct points. For example, if you bought direct today and got an August use year, you would get 2019 points (as well as all points going forward). The banking deadline for August is the following March 31, so normally, 2019 points could not be banked. But for the first year of a new purchase, you would be allowed to bank the 2019 points.

 

[CheapMom]

but isn't this usually done during the purchase. If you chose to use this year's points during this use year (example: an April trip with June UY points) and then the trip got cancelled are they letting you bank them? There are new members on the dvc fb group saying they are told rci is their only option at this point. I feel so bad for them.

 

[CarolMN]

but isn't this usually done during the purchase.

Yes, I believe this is the case.

If you chose to use this year's points during this use year (example: an April trip with June UY points) and then the trip got cancelled are they letting you bank them?

Not AFAIK.

There are new members on the dvc fb group saying they are told rci is their only option at this point. I feel so bad for them.

I'm sure we all feel for them. It's true that under the existing rules, Members can deposit points into RCI for later use within RCI. That's really the only alternative that Members can control if they are unable to use their expiring points to book a DVC resort.

I really don''t think RCI deposits are helping either DVC or the Member. DVC has to deposit DVC resort time into RCI for the points member use to do this, so it is't helping with availability. IMO, most members depositing really don't want to vacation at any of the options available to them in RCI, so not helping them, either. Were I in this position, I'd probably gamble that DVC will come up with something to at least partially compensate those who lost points due to the closures. If they do, I very much doubt they will do anything for those who actually did deposit into RCI. AFAIK, those can't be reversed. Anyway, that's what I would do, because I don't have any interest in staying at any of the RCI options. YMMV.

 

[BillPA]

I would not put much, if any faith in face book posts. You will be way ahead to believe what is posted on this site.

 

[Sandisw]

I purchased direct and I am not allowed to bank my June UY points from my cancelled trip. Do you mean 1st year members only?

Yes, Disney will allow a new buyer to bank late in their first UY As part of the sale,

They will also allow a current owner who added on direct, and had borrowed points, to put borrowed points back, and use newly required points.

 

[Sandisw]

but isn't this usually done during the purchase. If you chose to use this year's points during this use year (example: an April trip with June UY points) and then the trip got cancelled are they letting you bank them? There are new members on the dvc fb group saying they are told rci is their only option at this point. I feel so bad for them.

No, the late banking is when someone purchases after the banking deadline,

It is not applied to any new members. So, if one were to buy today with an April UY, they woudnt need a banking exception, because the window is still open.

It is really only part of the rules so that DVC can continue to sell all UYs, without a new buyer being stuck with points that are not useable.

 

[gharter]

Maybe I'm wronng, but my understanding is the DVC point issue has more to do with Florida Timeshare law rather than a rule that DVC created.

 

[Louis morrell]

Just so you understand, none of us purchased points. We purchased a percentage ownership in a real estate development. The points are only representative of our ownership. They are used to quantify our use of the property each year as to the villa size/duration of our use. They have no value and exist only in the context above. So what happened here is we as owners have lost access to our property. Nothing more, nothing less. Happens all of the time to me here in South Louisiana after a huricane. I have been restricted from entering the parish that I live in for more than a week after a storm. Nobody reimburses me for the loss of use of my real estate.

I think most people get caught up in the "club" thing. It's not a club, we are owners with all of the benefits and risk associated with owning.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Maybe I'm wronng, but my understanding is the DVC point issue has more to do with Florida Timeshare law rather than a rule that DVC created.

No, it's following the particular rules that DVC created. DVC has outlined the operations of the resorts and the system and filed that with the states however they can change things. They have in the past and I'm sure they will again in the future.

 

[DebbieB]

Maybe I'm wronng, but my understanding is the DVC point issue has more to do with Florida Timeshare law rather than a rule that DVC created.

I think the only thing in the timeshare filings is the points required have to be balanced so that each member will have the opportunity to use their points. By allowing rebanking, there will be too many points available compared to rooms and every member will not have the opportunity to use their points. I’m not convinced on the late banking of current year, those points should have been part of the calculation if they were banked earlier. On the other hand, there is going to be a room shortage because of the closed time, which may be the logic behind not allowing late banking. Bottom line is you can’t fit 12 months of points into 9 months of room use if they are closed 3 months.

 

[Aussie RJ]

But I agree, it is really important when purchasing to understand UY and the risk of traveling late with either banked points, or points no longer eligible to be banked.

Sorry @Sandisw but I really need to take you to task here. You’re suggesting, on multiple threads, that it’s simply bad luck and perhaps a dumb risk that people are losing points because they booked so late in their use year. Your argument stands if personal agendas fall in the way of a booked trip. However, covid19 is a world wide unprecedented mess. Are you going to say the same thing to members with a September use year who were going to use banked points to book an Easter trip? I enjoy a good bet, my bet is those same members will be writing these treads in October.

 

[Cyberc1978]

Sorry @Sandisw but I really need to take you to task here. You’re suggesting, on multiple threads, that it’s simply bad luck and perhaps a dumb risk that people are losing points because they booked so late in their use year. Your argument stands if personal agendas fall in the way of a booked trip. However, covid19 is a world wide unprecedented mess. Are you going to say the same thing to members with a September use year who were going to use banked points to book an Easter trip? I enjoy a good bet, my bet is those same members will be writing these treads in October.

IMO if you are not using your points during the last 4 Months of your UY you have tried to use your points as best as possible. Of course using your points during the 1st month is way better than during your 7 month.

those with a sept UY should have the possibility to bank their points before 30th of April if they need to cancel an Easter trip. This of course assumes that you haven’t banked before. If points are already banked members still have until 30th of August to book something else. I agree it’s not the most optimal situation but it’s way better to have close to 5 months to spend your points instead of close to 0.

 

[Sandisw]

Sorry @Sandisw but I really need to take you to task here. You’re suggesting, on multiple threads, that it’s simply bad luck and perhaps a dumb risk that people are losing points because they booked so late in their use year. Your argument stands if personal agendas fall in the way of a booked trip. However, covid19 is a world wide unprecedented mess. Are you going to say the same thing to members with a September use year who were going to use banked points to book an Easter trip? I enjoy a good bet, my bet is those same members will be writing these treads in October.

What I have suggested, and have done so for years, is that traveling late in a UY is risky and that when purchasing, its one of the main things to consider,

The closer to the beginning of a UY, the more options that you have,

So, those that used banked points with 2 weeks left on them, made a choice to put them at severe risk of losing them. I am not sure what is inaccurate about that statement,

People who chose to travel outside the banking window made A choice to give up their ability to bank. Not sure what is inaccurate about that,

I have said multiple times that I feel for people who are now faced with this, but I don’t agree that someone can claim that they had no idea it was a risk, simply because they didn’t imagine a virus.


My March trip was made with borrowed points from my Dec UY...that was a safe move because I had lots of time to move it if something happened, It is now in Aug. More risky, but we decided to try it, even though I still have borrowed points. So, I am taking a larger risk. If that is canceled, and those points dont go back, I know I could lose them,

Banked points are a use or lose regardless, so yes, people with Sept UY who can't reschedule could lose them...but at least, they gave themselves more than a 2 to 10 week chance to reschedule

I have also shared I own 3 UYs because I understood those risks, and wanted to no have to worry, even though 3 memberships is a lot more work,

So, my advice to new buyers is to really consider UY and it’s effect on membership if you have normal times of travel,

Given the current situation, it’s even more important. Since this is a purchasing thread, I intend to share that opinion.

 

[tjkraz]

It's similarly fair to point out that these are unprecedented circumstances which have not occurred in the 30 year history of DVC. Only a small fraction of members are poised to lose points at this stage. And if we all lost 1 set of points over the 50-year term of the contract, we'd still be doing quite well.

Additionally, DVC has all-but committed to doing something to help people with expiring points once the duration of the closure is clear:

Some Members may have questions about reservation cancellations involving Points that are set to expire soon. At this time, we are evaluating the banking and expiration policy and the use of certain Points impacted by the closures. As a part of our evaluation process, we need to be considerate of the impact any changes could have on future inventory availability for the Membership overall. A decision will be made when we better understand how long COVID-19 will impact our operations.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

It's similarly fair to point out that these are unprecedented circumstances which have not occurred in the 30 year history of DVC. Only a small fraction of members are poised to lose points at this stage. And if we all lost 1 set of points over the 50-year term of the contract, we'd still be doing quite well.

Additionally, DVC has all-but committed to doing something to help people with expiring points once the duration of the closure is clear:

Some Members may have questions about reservation cancellations involving Points that are set to expire soon. At this time, we are evaluating the banking and expiration policy and the use of certain Points impacted by the closures. As a part of our evaluation process, we need to be considerate of the impact any changes could have on future inventory availability for the Membership overall. A decision will be made when we better understand how long COVID-19 will impact our operations.

I'm not sure I read that as "all but committed." They have said they will evaluate. Evaluating isn't committing to taking an action other than assessment. If the assessment comes up as "no good options, sorry" that will fulfill what they have said they'll do.

This is a very careful corporate statement. There is no commitment to any compensatory action.