Bush was right!!!

[ThreeCircles]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
Why don't you ask the soldiers if he/she feels that way? Some might but from what I've read/heard (and not on CNN, ABC,NBC, CBS NPR, NYT, LAT) most feel they're doing a necessary job , a good job and are proud of what they've accomplished.

Your opinion is just that. Yours.

Well, I'd very much like to see that info. No, really. I could be way off but I'm guessing a significant portion of them would feel otherwise.

And yes, it is my opinion. Just as yours is yours. I thought we kinda took that for granted on here but I could be wrong!

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
Why? Because it we pretend we haven't killed thousands of innocent Iraqis it isn't true?

I think this point should be continually brought up.

Where in the world did I say anything to imply that if we pretend we haven't killed thousands of innocent Iraqis it isn't true? Where did I say that?

You just completely made that up.

I said that if you truly care about innocent Iraqis dying, I don't understand how you could call the war totally unnecessary. It's necessary for the world community to step up and do something when a country's government is committing genocide and horrific human rights abuses on its own people. Because when it's the government, the people have no way to defend themselves from that and the rest of the world has to step up.

If you don't agree with that philosophy, fine. But if you're going to bring the innocent Iraqis into the mix, I don't know how you can square that with "totally unecessary".

 

[wdwdvcdad]

Originally posted by lucysdad
Very sad, as were all the casualties of 9/11. Why do you NeoCons always suggest that those of us who oppose the war weren't deeply affected by this tragedy? We don't think the war in Iraq was justified due to lack of evidence (remember, this is an American concept: Innocent until proven Guilty). This doesn't make us unpatriotic or without feeling. Why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia? Most of the suicide pilots and crew were Saudis.

Just because you refuse to look at the evidence does not mean it does not exist. It is not my job to do your homework for you, but I'll start you off in a general direction:

http://jaynadavis.com/

As for Saudi Arabia, I agree. I would have started there 1st, but I would have also cleaned up Iraq, the Sudan, North Korea, etc...

And no, I'm no neo-con. So you can stop trying to throw around these little insults that you probably do not even understand.

Stop gorging yourself on what you are fed by the mnass media in america and try a little intellectual honesty.

I've got huge problems with the bush administration, but GWB is, by far, the best choice.

 

[ThreeCircles]

Originally posted by wdwdvcdad
Anyone have the list of innocent Iraquis murdered & raped by Saddam's regime? (It'll be exponentially more than the number who were tragically killed in an attempt to fight for their freedom)

So, just to clarify...

We invaded Iraq in order to avenge those Iraqi citizens that were "murdered & raped by Saddam's regime?"

I'm just trying to keep my "Reason for Invading Iraq" straight for the day. It changes so often, who can possibly keep up!?!?

And yet, what about the many other countries who engage in murder, rape, torture, and human rights abuses. Wait, I should keep quiet. Don't want to give the shrub any ideas...

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by lucysdad
ThreeCircles you beat me to the punch. Thank you for sharing an intelligent viewpoint.

Okay, maybe you can point out where I said anything to imply that if we pretend we haven't killed thousands of innocent Iraqis it isn't true.

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by lucysdad
Why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia? Most of the suicide pilots and crew were Saudis.

Is this a rhetorical question? The pilots may have been Saudis, but they were being harbored by Afghanistan. I don't know why we'd invade Saudi Arabia if al Qaeda was in Afghanistan.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by lucysdad

I totally support our troops, totally admire everyone of them with the courage to be there. Their quality of character is not in question. I hope they all come home safe.

Good for you.

But I must ask what do you tell them? Do you say that we shouldn't have sent you over there to kill thousands of innocent Iraqi's in a war that I feel was totally unnecessary which means you don't like what they did but we support you and (if you're religious) wish you God's speed home.

How is a soldier supposed to interpret that?

IMO, that's a "nice" way to say "baby killer".

Don't have any links bookmarked at this time, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that the U.S. supported bin Laden back in the day, and others who are now considered terrorists as well. Sorry, those are the facts.[/b

Yes, those are the facts but a little out of context. We supported them in an effort to keep the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan. It's too bad that OBL went mad and turned against us.

How do we fix it?

What needs to be fixed?

Is that another "Blame America for 9-11" attitude?

 

[ThreeCircles]

Originally posted by kbeverina
Where in the world did I say anything to imply that if we pretend we haven't killed thousands of innocent Iraqis it isn't true? Where did I say that?

You just completely made that up.

I said that if you truly care about innocent Iraqis dying, I don't understand how you could call the war totally unnecessary. It's necessary for the world community to step up and do something when a country's government is committing genocide and horrific human rights abuses on its own people. Because when it's the government, the people have no way to defend themselves from that and the rest of the world has to step up.

If you don't agree with that philosophy, fine. But if you're going to bring the innocent Iraqis into the mix, I don't know how you can square that with "totally unecessary".

You mean the "innocent Iraqis" that we bombed? That we shot? That we murdered? Are those the innocent Iraqis that you're suggesting we don't care about?

Hmmm... I would think that not rushing blindly into war would have saved all of those lives.

And again, just for clarification, the war was now fought for the innocent Iraqis and to stop human rights abuses?

Wow! What a contrast with the U.S. occupation of Iraq!

 

[lucysdad]

Originally posted by kbeverina
Where in the world did I say anything to imply that if we pretend we haven't killed thousands of innocent Iraqis it isn't true? Where did I say that?

You just completely made that up.

I said that if you truly care about innocent Iraqis dying, I don't understand how you could call the war totally unnecessary. It's necessary for the world community to step up and do something when a country's government is committing genocide and horrific human rights abuses on its own people. Because when it's the government, the people have no way to defend themselves from that and the rest of the world has to step up.

If you don't agree with that philosophy, fine. But if you're going to bring the innocent Iraqis into the mix, I don't know how you can square that with "totally unecessary".

The problem is, you didn't "Say" anything. You're original quote was: If you cared one iota for innocent Iraqis, I can't believe you'd say such a thing.

And you were replying to my post, BTW. Your response was nonsensical, how could anyone intuit what you were trying to say by that? I'll say it again, how can you justify the slaughter of innocent people either way? How would you like to be an inadvertant byproduct of such an act? Oh, and oh yeah, the "world community" in this case favored a different approach.

 

[wdwdvcdad]

What kind of support has Iraq given terrorists?
Safe haven, training, and financial support. In violation of international law, Iraq has also sheltered specific terrorists wanted by other countries, reportedly including:

Abu Nidal, who, until he was found dead in Baghdad in August 2002, led an organization responsible for attacks that killed some 300 people.
Palestine Liberation Front leader Abu Abbas, who was responsible for the 1985 hijacking of the Achille Lauro cruise ship in the Mediterranean. Abbas was captured by U.S. forces April 15.
Two Saudis who hijacked a Saudi Arabian Airlines flight to Baghdad in 2000.
Abdul Rahman Yasin, who is on the FBI’s “most wanted terrorists“ list for his alleged role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
Iraq has also provided financial support for Palestinian terror groups, including Hamas, Islamic Jihad, the Palestine Liberation Front, and the Arab Liberation Front, and it channeled money to the families of Palestinian suicide bombers. In April 2002, Iraq increased the amount of such payments from $10,000 to $25,000. Experts say that by promoting Israeli-Palestinian violence, Saddam may have hoped to make it harder for the United States to win Arab support for a campaign against Iraq.

http://www.cfr.org/background/background_iraq_ties.php

I'm in favor of destroying all who support terrorism. To say Saddam did not would to either be blind or a liar.

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
Well, I'd very much like to see that info. No, really. I could be way off but I'm guessing a significant portion of them would feel otherwise.

And yes, it is my opinion. Just as yours is yours. I thought we kinda took that for granted on here but I could be wrong!

Granted, this is just my opinion as well - but many of the soldiers I've met and talked to think the war was necessary and are proud of their work over there. Of course, I've only lived on three military bases since the war started, so I might not have talked to too many.

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
You mean the "innocent Iraqis" that we bombed? That we shot? That we murdered? Are those the innocent Iraqis that you're suggesting we don't care about?

Hmmm... I would think that not rushing blindly into war would have saved all of those lives.

And again, just for clarification, the war was now fought for the innocent Iraqis and to stop human rights abuses?

Wow! What a contrast with the U.S. occupation of Iraq!

You gotta be kidding me!

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
Why? Because it we pretend we haven't killed thousands of innocent Iraqis it isn't true?

Who's pretending?

 

[ThreeCircles]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
Who's pretending?

Well, it seemed as if this was what kbeverina was originally saying but it could be that her post just wasn't clear.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
You mean the "innocent Iraqis" that we bombed? That we shot? That we murdered? Are those the innocent Iraqis that you're suggesting we don't care about?

Hmmm... I would think that not rushing blindly into war would have saved all of those lives.

And again, just for clarification, the war was now fought for the innocent Iraqis and to stop human rights abuses?

Wow! What a contrast with the U.S. occupation of Iraq!

So you'd be satisfied with a more well thought out war with less deaths on both sides?

What's the magic number that's acceptable in a war?

And you're right, if we didn't go in there those people would not have been killed. By us that is.

So what's the price of war to free a country that's been oppressed for 30 years supposed to cost?

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by lucysdad
The problem is, you didn't "Say" anything. You're original quote was: If you cared one iota for innocent Iraqis, I can't believe you'd say such a thing.

I did say something, but it wasn't what ThreeCircles distorted it to be.

If you're going to go with the "totally unecessary" description, then you need to stick to what's-best-for-the-U.S. angle in your argument.

But when you start talking about innocent Iraqis, "totally unecessary" is "totally outrageous". I would like to see you expand on the idea that the war was totally uneccessary for the innocent Iraqis. Why do you believe that?

And you were replying to my post, BTW.

Yes, I know.

Your response was nonsensical, how could anyone intuit what you were trying to say by that?

If someone doesn't understand my point, they can always ask and I'll explain. I'd rather that than they just make something up. Or intentionally distort.

I'll say it again, how can you justify the slaughter of innocent people either way? How would you like to be an inadvertant byproduct of such an act? Oh, and oh yeah, the "world community" in this case favored a different approach.

I can't justify the slaughter of innocent people. If you're saying we slaughtered innocent people, I disagree.

Some of them did. And they have their reasons.

 

[lucysdad]

Ok, this is just completely ridiculous. It's like listening to a really bad day on the Sean Hannity radio show. And, yes, I do listen to Hannity, and Franken, and Rhodes, and even that freak Michael Savage. I try to stay up on all opinions and ideals. Which, unfortunately is more than I can say about most of the shows I just mentioned. Anyone who defends the murder of innocent people that posed no threat to our nation is, in my opinion, just flat out wrong. Anyone who defends the convoluted intelligence system that was manipulated by the current administration (flame the hell out of me, I don't care because I'm right) to take us to war is just flat out wrong. Again, just my opinion. Anyone who takes my statements and twists them into suggesting that perhaps the soldiers who are in Iraq are evil or that the fact that we have funded terrorists in the past because it served our interests at the time is just plain old sick. So, you all have fun competing in this ridiculous battle of verbal barbs and I hope you're all happy with the world we're living in in 2010.

Those of you who can see past the rhetoric and can actually form intelligent thought of their own, bless you, and if you're not sick of it like I am, continue to fight the good fight. I wish you all good night (and, good for me).

 

[Tiziminchac]

Originally posted by ThreeCircles
To preserve our way of life? Iraq threatened our way of life? Hmmm... Have any proof for that one?

(CNN) -- Russian President Vladimir Putin said his country warned the United States several times that Saddam Hussein's regime was planning terror attacks on the United States and its overseas interests.

Putin's comments in Kazakhstan came amid a new debate in the United States about the extent of ties between Saddam and the al Qaeda terrorist network triggered by a preliminary report from the commission investigating the September 11 attacks.

"I can confirm that after the events of September 11, 2001, and up to the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services and Russian intelligence several times received ... information that official organs of Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist acts on the territory of the United States and beyond its borders, at U.S. military and civilian locations," Putin said.

The Russian leader did not elaborate on any details of the warnings of terror plots or mention whether they were tied to the al Qaeda terror network.

Putin, one of the strongest critics of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq, also said Russia had no information that Saddam's regime had actually committed any terrorist acts.

The United States never cited Russian intelligence when it was making its case for the war and Putin said the information did not change his country's opposition to the war


http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/18/saddam.terror/

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by katerkat
Granted, this is just my opinion as well - but many of the soldiers I've met and talked to think the war was necessary and are proud of their work over there. Of course, I've only lived on three military bases since the war started, so I might not have talked to too many.

Same here, katerkat--we know a ton of military families since we live right next to Quantico--they all feel just as you describe.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by kbeverina
You gotta be kidding me!

No, he's quite serious. He's more concerned about the few thousand unfortunate Iraqi casualties in (what he calls an unnecessary war) than he is about the few hundred thousand Iraqi's killed by SH's henchmen. And he ignores the fact that the mass killings have stopped. Who know how many more mass graves we will find, or won't be found.

Quite a contrast, wouldn't you say?