Bush sets record-longest vacation in recent history

[BuckNaked]

Can't answer a hypotheical in a vacuum. There are practical economic issues and moral issues. As to the latter, I have no problem with high marginal rate exceeding 50%. And I definitely want to expense options

50% at what income level?

I guess the idea is to have the top 5% of the wage earners pay 100% of the income tax, rather than the +25% they are already paying...

 

[sodaseller]

Putting it on a diet makes all kinds of sense.

Depends on what your goals are. The reality is that cuts at the higher margins generally result in cuts toprograms that disproportionately benefit the politically powerless. If that is your goal, then it makes. That's why I have always maintained that the tax cuts of the last few years have been a total success, defined in terms of their true ends. They were sold as some form of marginal analysis, SSE job creating economic stimulus. In that resect, they failed miserably. But that was never their true goal. Their true aim was to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and in that they succeeded

 

[bsnyder]

But that was never their true goal. Their true aim was to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and in that they succeeded

Opinion, or fact? If fact, let's see some objective data.

 

[sodaseller]

Of course you are. Let's redistribute the income even more, let's take even more from the people that earn it so we can hand it out to the people that don't.

We have a winner - the first programmed bot to recite the CW! Virtue is it's financial reward!

Hey, if you think your success is your own and your ties to society a burden, there are plenty of jurisdictions out there that will permit you to realize your true potential. The Sudan, Iraq, even a small tax haven island. In each, you will be free the oppressive taxation and regulation, a la OWH's price you pay to live in a civilized society. Remember, your success is your own. It is no longer "there but for the Grace of God go I." Grace has nothing to do with it Luther - you are a Pelagian - you control your fate!

 

[sodaseller]

Opinion, or fact? If fact, let's see some objective data.

Objective data as to true intent? AsGW Bush says, no one can know what is in his heart, and he should not be judged by his actions. Please. As to the fact that the lower classes are becoming less secure. another time. Enough data mining today, epscially when your side never does any in return - they just sloganeer

 

[DisDuck]

Bet.. There have been statistics published showing 'real' wages have not keep up with inflation even with the tax cuts. This morning I heard a news report that with the crude oil increases and its effect on all petroleum based products the savings from the tax cuts have been offset.

Now as a Libertarian I am against tax increases so I have no 'how high' limit but as a practical matter a return to the 2000 rates would not be bad just not my want. It is important to note that the last war fought without a tax increase was Viet Nam and the economy took a big hit deficit wise in the 60's. Seems to parallel what is happening now.

 

[bsnyder]

Objective data as to true intent? AsGW Bush says, no one can know what is in his heart, and he should not be judged by his actions. Please. As to the fact that the lower classes are becoming less secure. another time. Enough data mining today, epscially when your side never does any in return - they just sloganeer

So, it's your opinion, huh?

Please, indeed!

 

[BuckNaked]

We have a winner - the first programmed bot to recite the CW! Virtue is it's financial reward!

Hey, if you think your success is your own and your ties to society a burden, there are plenty of jurisdictions out there that will permit you to realize your true potential. The Sudan, Iraq, even a small tax haven island. In each, you will be free the oppressive taxation and regulation, a la OWH's price you pay to live in a civilized society. Remember, your success is your own. It is no longer "there but for the Grace of God go I." Grace has nothing to do with it Luther - you are a Pelagian - you control your fate!

I understand that I have an obligation to society, which I'm meeting by paying my taxes. But at what point is enough enough? My family is paying tens of thousands of dollars in income taxes, and the guy in the inner city is not only paying nothing, he's living in subsidized housing, eating food purchased with foodstamps, and getting a hefty check back from EITC every year.

What am I getting for my money? We're driving on the same roads, we have the same police protection, the same crappy schools available ( though I wouldn't send my kids to the public school here if you paid me to), the same utilities, the same everything. What benefits am I reaping from society that he isn't?

 

[Teejay32]

Depends on what your goals are. The reality is that cuts at the higher margins generally result in cuts toprograms that disproportionately benefit the politically powerless. If that is your goal, then it makes. That's why I have always maintained that the tax cuts of the last few years have been a total success, defined in terms of their true ends. They were sold as some form of marginal analysis, SSE job creating economic stimulus. In that resect, they failed miserably. But that was never their true goal. Their true aim was to make the rich richer and the poor poorer, and in that they succeeded

putting it a different way, there are Haves and Have-nots, and they were designed in order for the Haves to keep more of what they have, and the Have-nots to get less of it. Crazy as this thread is, it's not big enough to contain that debate - I'll just say there are always going to be big-spending idealogues in DC controlling the money, and you're not always going to like their pet projects. The system is designed that way.

 

[sodaseller]

.

Now as a Libertarian I am against tax increases so I have no 'how high' limit but as a practical matter a return to the 2000 rates would not be bad just not my want. It is important to note that the last war fought without a tax increase was Viet Nam and the economy took a big hit deficit wise in the 60's. Seems to parallel what is happening now.

Remember, the Iraq War was vitally necessary for our security, just not necessary enough to actually give up the holidays in Aspen for.

 

[sodaseller]

So, it's your opinion, huh?

Please, indeed!

So let's see, the initial cut he campaigned on was justified during the campaign as the perfect antidote to the overheated economy that was collecting too many taxes and causing wasteful surpluses. Then at the end of the campaign, as the economy started going south, suddenly it was the perfect antidote to the opposite problem as well! It all makes sense if you have surrendered your mind to Supply Side Satanomics

 

[sodaseller]

I understand that I have an obligation to society, which I'm meeting by paying my taxes. But at what point is enough enough? My family is paying tens of thousands of dollars in income taxes, and the guy in the inner city is not only paying nothing, he's living in subsidized housing, eating food purchased with foodstamps, and getting a hefty check back from EITC every year.

It's that White Man's Burden, dontcha know. Those "lucky duckies", as the WSJ calls them, living in their undertaxed state of paradise

 

[wvrevy]

What am I getting for my money? We're driving on the same roads, we have the same police protection, the same crappy schools available ( though I wouldn't send my kids to the public school here if you paid me to), the same utilities, the same everything. What benefits am I reaping from society that he isn't?

You've got to be kidding...If welfare were stopped, don't you think crime might increase just a bit ? If you depended on food stamps to help supplement your income to feed your family, what would you do if they ceased ? You really think that a call to the cops from the suburbs doesn't get faster service than a call from the projects ? You really think that people living in the projects have it easy, because they get a little help from the government ?

This is the problem with the Republican stance on these issues...It is incredibly short sighted. Oh, I'll grant that the liberal side tends to be too friggin' warm and fuzzy, but come on...This position just completely ignores reality. Do you really think that, if you cut off funding for these people, they're just going to up and go out and get good paying jobs and move to the 'burbs ?

 

[BuckNaked]

It's that White Man's Burden, dontcha know. Those "lucky duckies", as the WSJ calls them, living in their undertaxed state of paradise

Speak for yourself, I'm certainly not undertaxed. And since you so love to answer questions, how about answering the one I posed in my previous post?

 

[bcvillastwo]

For those of you who have their knickers in a knot Bush's vacation is not nearly the longest.

It seems James Madison had a 4 month vacation when he was President.

http://hnn.us/articles/printfriendly/202.html

So I say, so what..................work is still being done. Knowing people who have worked at the White House communications agency a President of the U.S.A. is better hooked up to communicate and work than anyone anywhere.

You cry babies need to focus on more important things and stop trying to make mountains out of mole hills.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

You've got to be kidding...If welfare were stopped, don't you think crime might increase just a bit ? If you depended on food stamps to help supplement your income to feed your family, what would you do if they ceased ? You really think that a call to the cops from the suburbs doesn't get faster service than a call from the projects ? You really think that people living in the projects have it easy, because they get a little help from the government ?

This is the problem with the Republican stance on these issues...It is incredibly short sighted. Oh, I'll grant that the liberal side tends to be too friggin' warm and fuzzy, but come on...This position just completely ignores reality. Do you really think that, if you cut off funding for these people, they're just going to up and go out and get good paying jobs and move to the 'burbs ?

I doubt they could move to the 'burbs, but they certainly could find some type of gainful employment rather than living off everyone else who does work. Even the much-revered FDR didn't believe, during the depths of the Great Depression, in doling out money without expecting something of value in return for it.

I have much too close knowledge of the detriments of welfare/food stamp programs to believe that alone they provide any incentive to improve one's situation. Way too often it becomes a dead-end with some learning how to scam the system for extra income.

I wouldn't suggest pulling the plug tomorrow or next week or next year. But I do believe the gov't. needs to develop a work-fare program that will truly help people in need and transition them from welfare to a productive lifestyle as soon as possible. Handing out money for doing nothing solves nothing.

 

[Teejay32]

You've got to be kidding...If welfare were stopped, don't you think crime might increase just a bit ? If you depended on food stamps to help supplement your income to feed your family, what would you do if they ceased ? You really think that a call to the cops from the suburbs doesn't get faster service than a call from the projects?

I've lived in both and yeah, you can get fast service in the project and you probably know a lot of cops by name and ask for them directly. In rural areas you might sit there for hours; in pretty suburbs they just don't have much to do to begin with - of course they'll be there fast.

I think the cycle of dependency, blocks of people living on government funding creates it's own problems, and ensures poverty. But why discuss it when you can easily dismiss it all as sloganeering, racism, elitism, or some combination, thus preserving the central tenets of class warfare...

 

[sodaseller]

Speak for yourself, I'm certainly not undertaxed. And since you so love to answer questions, how about answering the one I posed in my previous post?

Think about it - your question answers itself

 

[Tigger_Magic]

For those of you who have their knickers in a knot Bush's vacation is not nearly the longest.

It seems James Madison had a 4 month vacation when he was President.

http://hnn.us/articles/printfriendly/202.html

So I say, so what..................work is still being done. Knowing people who have worked at the White House communications agency a President of the U.S.A. is better hooked up to communicate and work than anyone anywhere.

You cry babies need to focus on more important things and stop trying to make mountains out of mole hills.

Just playing devil's advocate... but the complaint (as I understand it) is not about the length of President Bush's current vacation, it's about the total vacation time he has taken while in office.

 

[BuckNaked]

You've got to be kidding...If welfare were stopped, don't you think crime might increase just a bit ? If you depended on food stamps to help supplement your income to feed your family, what would you do if they ceased ? You really think that a call to the cops from the suburbs doesn't get faster service than a call from the projects ? You really think that people living in the projects have it easy, because they get a little help from the government ?

This is the problem with the Republican stance on these issues...It is incredibly short sighted. Oh, I'll grant that the liberal side tends to be too friggin' warm and fuzzy, but come on...This position just completely ignores reality. Do you really think that, if you cut off funding for these people, they're just going to up and go out and get good paying jobs and move to the 'burbs ?

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be a safety net to help those that truly need it, but when is enough enough? Frankly, I get tired of being told "Well, you make enough, you should have to pay even more than you do now". 50% income tax at the top margins? Come on, that's ridiculous!! (Not saying that was your idea).

Helping people that need it is one thing, but taking from one group so that another group won't need to work any harder than they do is flat out wrong.