Bully at School?

[Shutterbug]

My oldest daughter started school back on August 6th. The 3rd grade classes were so full at about 30 our more students in a room. So they had to hire an extra teacher and my daughter was moved to the new class. Which isn't an issue, the issue is still is in there with a girl who has bullied her since kindergarten.

The young girl started name calling in kindergarten and every year it escalates. She's taking her lunch food, she's linked her food, thrown it down on the ground. She has taken her personal objects and squeezed out all her hand sanitizer from the clip on her backpack. She even scratched her down her chest to where it bled.

This is all over the course of the three school years. From kindergarten to second grade, she's tormented my DD. I've talked to the teachers and nothing seems to have changed. Until this year when they were finally separated but now they're forced back together. My DD was absolutely terrified to go to school today, scared she's going to do something or steal from her.

As soon as I heard the news I called the principal who just advised me to email the new teacher and tell her my concerns. I did but her email wasn't working then. And that just want good enough for me so I also emailed the guidance counseler about it. And I also went to the school today. They refused to move them believing the teacher can handle it.

This still isn't good enough it's been going on for three years and nothing has stopped it. The principal had no idea anything had gone one. I don't know how her previous teachers hasn't also informed him. Sadly my DD isn't the only child who's had issues with her bullying their kids. At least three other parents I talked to have had issues.

And I guarantee that this bully will figure out Amanda told on her and it will make things worse. I tried calling the school board and have yet to receive a call back. I have also emailed her, in hopes she will get back to me asap. My DD doesn't feel safe, I feel the school has failed her and I've let her down by not protecting her in this situation.

What else can I do? I just feel so helpless.

at the bold part, why not call the police at that point? Bring in the authorities, that made have had the school change its tune.

 

[Shutterbug]

I don't understand why you would go to the school with this instead of the parents. Facebook is not an extension of school, and it 100% optional. Your child is not required by the school to have a Facebook. Why would the school be involved at all? And why would they suspend him for something that happened outside of school? Going to the parents? Absolutely. The school? I don't get it.

Because with some school districts there is a student code of conduct that goes beyond school hours. If I recall reading about some high school students posting pics holding a beers or drinking them. They were suspended because the broke the code of conduct rules. Didnt matter that it happened off school property.

 

[luvsJack]

I agree about the defending herself. Even with her in a different classroom, you should still let her know that its ok to defend herself.

Ds and dd both had bullies. Both stopped the bullying by defending themselves. With dd, we also went to the school and action was taken and when the girl found a new victim, her mother was given the choice of alternative school and she decided to pull her child out of school.

With ds the school did nothing, so he did. The bullying stopped.

The added benefit is that both went on to have the self confidence that the bully had taken from them. Defending themselves gave that back to them.

 

[bellebud]

My wife works in the principal's office, so I know they get a TON of these kind of issues raised - some legit, some not so much. I would suggest you become the squeaky wheel until you get the grease you need. If they hear it enough, they will take it seriously.

I agree with this.

Even if they move her just to shut you up, great! I'd show up there every single day asking for her to be moved.

 

[ashley0139]

Parents? So they can act like their delinquent child is innocent? No way. She only sees this boy at school, and if I recall correctly (this was several years ago) the threat was if he saw her in the halls at school, hence we went to the school, and I applaud the school for taking swift, decisive measure. I bet he doesn't pull that garbage with anyone else.

If that's how the parents handle it, that's how they handle it. It's still not the school's place. Now, if he was threatening to do something at school I can kind of see the school being involved. I'm sure that boy sending your DD those messages was horrible. He definitely should have been punished, either by parents or law enforcement. But I absolutely do not think the school should have authority over what happens on Facebook. Would they also have authority if he ran into her in a store and said something?

Because with some school districts there is a student code of conduct that goes beyond school hours. If I recall reading about some high school students posting pics holding a beers or drinking them. They were suspended because the broke the code of conduct rules. Didnt matter that it happened off school property.

That's insane, and completely inappropriate. The school has (should have) no authority over what happens in kids' private lives outside of school. That's so far reaching over the line I can't even see the line.

 

[cobright]

The first question I would ask my daughter in this circumstance is, "When I ask the other girl why she does those things to you what do you think she will tell me?".

Very few people and even fewer children think of themselves as the villain. That other kid isn't going to say, "I scratched your daughter because I'm evil."

If you can get an honest answer out of the other person you will stand a much greater chance of making the offensive behavior stop. Most often people resort to extreme measures like the OP describes because they lack the language skills and emotional maturity to deal with a complicated human interaction. That doesn't excuse the behavior but it can give some insight on how to make that behavior stop.

As it stands, to the other girl's point of view anyway, there exists a contest of some sort. There are lots of ways to win this game, being witty or pretty or funny or fast or fearless; or if she has none of those qualities by being vicious. She see's those traits in your daughter and assumes that your daughter is also playing to win this game.

Right or wrong, anything your daughter does is seen by this corrupted worldview as an attempt to push her back to 2nd or 3rd place. Say it again, anything your daughter does; even defending herself from a bully. The girl might learn to not pick a fight outright but that will just drive her bullying deeper to levels that cause a lot more pain than a scratch.

I'm not exactly a peacnik, I understand violence from the vantage point of one who has used it. Sometimes it's the only thing that works, but I would suggest that those times are like shooting stars; few and fleeting.

If you want the antagonism and conflict between your daughter and the other girl to end then teach your daughter this response: "I don't like this game, let's play something else." If the bully's behavior doesn't change then she should immediately walk to an adult. If she tries to best the other girl she's simply confirming to her that they are rivals.

 

[luvsJack]

The first question I would ask my daughter in this circumstance is, "When I ask the other girl why she does those things to you what do you think she will tell me?".

Very few people and even fewer children think of themselves as the villain. That other kid isn't going to say, "I scratched your daughter because I'm evil."

If you can get an honest answer out of the other person you will stand a much greater chance of making the offensive behavior stop. Most often people resort to extreme measures like the OP describes because they lack the language skills and emotional maturity to deal with a complicated human interaction. That doesn't excuse the behavior but it can give some insight on how to make that behavior stop.

As it stands, to the other girl's point of view anyway, there exists a contest of some sort. There are lots of ways to win this game, being witty or pretty or funny or fast or fearless; or if she has none of those qualities by being vicious. She see's those traits in your daughter and assumes that your daughter is also playing to win this game.

Right or wrong, anything your daughter does is seen by this corrupted worldview as an attempt to push her back to 2nd or 3rd place. Say it again, anything your daughter does; even defending herself from a bully. The girl might learn to not pick a fight outright but that will just drive her bullying deeper to levels that cause a lot more pain than a scratch.

I'm not exactly a peacnik, I understand violence from the vantage point of one who has used it. Sometimes it's the only thing that works, but I would suggest that those times are like shooting stars; few and fleeting.

If you want the antagonism and conflict between your daughter and the other girl to end then teach your daughter this response: "I don't like this game, let's play something else." If the bully's behavior doesn't change then she should immediately walk to an adult. If she tries to best the other girl she's simply confirming to her that they are rivals.

Fighting back should be a last resort, but what you suggest may not work either. It depends on how the other girl views the op's dd.

Ds's and dd's bullies liked the idea of having power over their victim. Going to an adult, in the bully's eyes was weakness and admitting that the bully had power. In defending themselves, they took that power away.

 

[disneydee6]

I don't understand why you would go to the school with this instead of the parents. Facebook is not an extension of school, and it 100% optional. Your child is not required by the school to have a Facebook. Why would the school be involved at all? And why would they suspend him for something that happened outside of school? Going to the parents? Absolutely. The school? I don't get it.

The way social media is these days, the bullying has left the playground and is on the computer. Schools NEED to be involved, because when kids have the luxury of bullying with a screen in front of them, they are A LOT more vicious, because its easy to be big and say nasty things from behind a screen. Cyber-bullying is a real term. Bullying has become such a hot button issue these days BECAUSE of social media sites, and schools should not turn a blind eye to printed proof of bullying. There has to be consequences, and there are far too many parents not willing to believe that there child would be bully, so to go to the parents would more often than not, not lead to any change. What will make a difference to you? A parent you don't know saying that your kid is a bully OR a principal or teacher coming to you with that same issue. The schools MUST be involved, because most of the time, that is the only consequence of bullying actions.

OP, glad the issue was resolved. You took all the necessary steps. If you don't advocate for your kid, who will?

 

[rwdavis2]

The way social media is these days, the bullying has left the playground and is on the computer. Schools NEED to be involved, because when kids have the luxury of bullying with a screen in front of them, they are A LOT more vicious, because its easy to be big and say nasty things from behind a screen. Cyber-bullying is a real term. Bullying has become such a hot button issue these days BECAUSE of social media sites, and schools should not turn a blind eye to printed proof of bullying. There has to be consequences, and there are far too many parents not willing to believe that there child would be bully, so to go to the parents would more often than not, not lead to any change. What will make a difference to you? A parent you don't know saying that your kid is a bully OR a principal or teacher coming to you with that same issue. The schools MUST be involved, because most of the time, that is the only consequence of bullying actions.

OP, glad the issue was resolved. You took all the necessary steps. If you don't advocate for your kid, who will?

Correct. The schools have realized that some in-school incidents did not happen in a vacuum but started on line and have to take that into consideration.

 

[Wishing on a star]

ds took the kid off his bike. School called, i told them it happened off of school grounds, so not their problem. Cops came, i told them it was a school problem, on the way home from school.

No more problems with that kid bullying ds and ds did not get punished.

love, love, love, this!!!!!

 

[Wishing on a star]

ds and dd both had bullies. Both stopped the bullying by defending themselves.

the added benefit is that both went on to have the self confidence that the bully had taken from them. defending themselves gave that back to them.

amen!!!!!

 

[Wishing on a star]

The first question I would ask my daughter in this circumstance is, "When I ask the other girl why she does those things to you what do you think she will tell me?".

Ohhhhh, I know I am not going to change anyone's mind here.
But, I have to completely and totally disagree with this....
On SO many levels....

You know what the bully's answer is, when asked 'why'.
"BECAUSE I CAN...." (followed by evil laughter)
That is completely and 100% ALWAYS the answer.

My son has faced situations with aggressive kids only twice.
Once, was when he was younger...
At that point, as the parent, I tried to intervene by telling this other kid that 'We need to keep our hands to ourselves... yada... yada... yada...'

Guess what....
Didnt work. No huge suprise there...
So, when I persoanlly witnessed this little kid jumping my son from behind, taking down onto a hard gym floor, and then was on top of him giving him 'forceful noogies'.... I did personally intervene.... You should have seen me march over there and say very clearly and very loudly "GET... OFF... HIM...!!!!". Guess what, again.... Didn't work.... kid went boo-hooing to mama about the big mean woman who was terrorizing him. I am the one who got called in with the leader of the group, the kids mother (also a group leader - go figure) and 'I' was the one who was put on the spot. I just told them "Look, this kid was on top of my kid... this conversation is over..." and I walked away.

Second time.... DS is older. I am not there where this happens... I told him to, without physically touching this kid, to fight back... To get all up in his face, yell at him, so that everybody around, adults included, would hear... (not just to 'say loudly', but just yell and GROWL like an angry bear.) "DON'T YOU EVER, EVER, TOUCH ME OR MY STUFF AGAIN!!!!" I told him that if he was bullied by this kid messing with his belongings... to wait for the perfect opportunity when this kid's head was turned, and then, 'wham', make sure that it was THAT kids stuff that hit the floor, strewn halfway across the room.

Guess what.... IT WORKED!

Ohhh, I can just how it would have went down if my son had responded to this... "But, WHY are you being mean and doing this to me"


My son is not assertive.
He is not one to advise to 'beat the other kid up'.
To solve it physically.
But, by last year, when the second incident happened, he was able to take our advice and to be brave and to stand up to the other kid.
I think that this was a huge lesson in 'empowerment' for my son!

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Ohhhhh, I know I am not going to change anyone's mind here.
But, I have to completely and totally disagree with this....
On SO many levels....

You know what the bully's answer is, when asked 'why'.
"BECAUSE I CAN...." (followed by evil laughter)
That is completely and 100% ALWAYS the answer.

My son has faced situations with aggressive kids only twice.
Once, was when he was younger...
At that point, as the parent, I tried to intervene by telling this other kid that 'We need to keep our hands to ourselves... yada... yada... yada...'

Guess what....
Didnt work. No huge suprise there...
So, when I persoanlly witnessed this little kid jumping my son from behind, taking down onto a hard gym floor, and then was on top of him giving him 'forceful noogies'.... I did personally intervene.... You should have seen me march over there and say very clearly and very loudly "GET... OFF... HIM...!!!!". Guess what, again.... Didn't work.... kid went boo-hooing to mama about the big mean woman who was terrorizing him. I am the one who got called in with the leader of the group, the kids mother (also a group leader - go figure) and 'I' was the one who was put on the spot. I just told them "Look, this kid was on top of my kid... this conversation is over..." and I walked away.

Second time.... DS is older. I am not there where this happens... I told him to, without physically touching this kid, to fight back... To get all up in his face, yell at him, so that everybody around, adults included, would hear... (not just to 'say loudly', but just yell and GROWL like an angry bear.) "DON'T YOU EVER, EVER, TOUCH ME OR MY STUFF AGAIN!!!!" I told him that if he was bullied by this kid messing with his belongings... to wait for the perfect opportunity when this kid's head was turned, and then, 'wham', make sure that it was THAT kids stuff that hit the floor, strewn halfway across the room.

Guess what.... IT WORKED!

Ohhh, I can just how it would have went down if my son had responded to this... "But, WHY are you being mean and doing this to me"


My son is not assertive.
He is not one to advise to 'beat the other kid up'.
To solve it physically.
But, by last year, when the second incident happened, he was able to take our advice and to be brave and to stand up to the other kid.
I think that this was a huge lesson in 'empowerment' for my son!

Couldn't agree more.

My daughter was being bullied at a new school in 3rd grade. This is a Charter School that is very difficult to get into, so these kids had all been together for 3 years and already established their own, well cliques for lack of a better word.

Girl started bullying her and DD came home and told us about it. We went the usual routes of avoidance, telling the teacher, yada yada. One day I couldn't take it anymore. I told her to verbally let that little girl have it. But my instructions were clear, "Do it loudly and in front of everyone". I instructed her to use language not appropriate for a 3rd grader. Not cursing, per se, but not language that these kids are used to hearing. DD was very worried about this. We practiced and practiced, but I was worried too. After all, this particular DD is not the aggressive type.

Well it worked, and now 3 years later these girls are the best of friends. Bully has mellowed and we have sleepovers and girls nights on a regular basis.

Sometimes people just need to know where the boundaries are.

 

[Liberty Belle]

My oldest daughter started school back on August 6th. The 3rd grade classes were so full at about 30 our more students in a room. So they had to hire an extra teacher and my daughter was moved to the new class. Which isn't an issue, the issue is still is in there with a girl who has bullied her since kindergarten.

The young girl started name calling in kindergarten and every year it escalates. She's taking her lunch food, she's linked her food, thrown it down on the ground. She has taken her personal objects and squeezed out all her hand sanitizer from the clip on her backpack. She even scratched her down her chest to where it bled.

This is all over the course of the three school years. From kindergarten to second grade, she's tormented my DD. I've talked to the teachers and nothing seems to have changed. Until this year when they were finally separated but now they're forced back together. My DD was absolutely terrified to go to school today, scared she's going to do something or steal from her.

As soon as I heard the news I called the principal who just advised me to email the new teacher and tell her my concerns. I did but her email wasn't working then. And that just want good enough for me so I also emailed the guidance counseler about it. And I also went to the school today. They refused to move them believing the teacher can handle it.

This still isn't good enough it's been going on for three years and nothing has stopped it. The principal had no idea anything had gone one. I don't know how her previous teachers hasn't also informed him. Sadly my DD isn't the only child who's had issues with her bullying their kids. At least three other parents I talked to have had issues.

And I guarantee that this bully will figure out Amanda told on her and it will make things worse. I tried calling the school board and have yet to receive a call back. I have also emailed her, in hopes she will get back to me asap. My DD doesn't feel safe, I feel the school has failed her and I've let her down by not protecting her in this situation.

What else can I do? I just feel so helpless.

The first thing I would do is speak to the school psychologist and ask her/him to have a series of meetings with both girls. My son had a very small issue with a boy in his class (the boy would purposefully irritate him by making noises in his ear whenever he passed by him) and the school's psychologist did this and it helped tremendously.

If you ask her directly if she can do this, I would think she would. If not, demand an explanation of why she won't. Be sure to tell everyone (principal, teacher, psychologist) just how much anxiety this is causing your daughter. Get it in email, too, and save it. God forbid she has any problems in school because of it, but if she does, you will have that to show them they denied you help.

And be firm. In my son's last school I made the devastating mistake of thinking the school would handle the bullying after my son and I reported it, repeatedly. They did not and it caused HUGE problems for my son that we are still working to undo.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Ohhhhh, I know I am not going to change anyone's mind here.
But, I have to completely and totally disagree with this....
On SO many levels....

You know what the bully's answer is, when asked 'why'.
"BECAUSE I CAN...." (followed by evil laughter)
That is completely and 100% ALWAYS the answer.

My son has faced situations with aggressive kids only twice.
Once, was when he was younger...
At that point, as the parent, I tried to intervene by telling this other kid that 'We need to keep our hands to ourselves... yada... yada... yada...'

Guess what....
Didnt work. No huge suprise there...
So, when I persoanlly witnessed this little kid jumping my son from behind, taking down onto a hard gym floor, and then was on top of him giving him 'forceful noogies'.... I did personally intervene.... You should have seen me march over there and say very clearly and very loudly "GET... OFF... HIM...!!!!". Guess what, again.... Didn't work.... kid went boo-hooing to mama about the big mean woman who was terrorizing him. I am the one who got called in with the leader of the group, the kids mother (also a group leader - go figure) and 'I' was the one who was put on the spot. I just told them "Look, this kid was on top of my kid... this conversation is over..." and I walked away.

Second time.... DS is older. I am not there where this happens... I told him to, without physically touching this kid, to fight back... To get all up in his face, yell at him, so that everybody around, adults included, would hear... (not just to 'say loudly', but just yell and GROWL like an angry bear.) "DON'T YOU EVER, EVER, TOUCH ME OR MY STUFF AGAIN!!!!" I told him that if he was bullied by this kid messing with his belongings... to wait for the perfect opportunity when this kid's head was turned, and then, 'wham', make sure that it was THAT kids stuff that hit the floor, strewn halfway across the room.

Guess what.... IT WORKED!

Ohhh, I can just how it would have went down if my son had responded to this... "But, WHY are you being mean and doing this to me"


My son is not assertive.
He is not one to advise to 'beat the other kid up'.
To solve it physically.
But, by last year, when the second incident happened, he was able to take our advice and to be brave and to stand up to the other kid.
I think that this was a huge lesson in 'empowerment' for my son!

I thoroughly disagree, about most of what you said, for many different reasons.

 

[cobright]

Fighting back should be a last resort, but what you suggest may not work either. It depends on how the other girl views the op's dd.

Going to an adult, in the bully's eyes was weakness and admitting that the bully had power. In defending themselves, they took that power away.

When I say "Walk to an adult" I don't mean to ******* I tell my daughter to simply remove herself from the situation.

Consider this dynamic. The person doing the bullying is a master of the sucker bet. This person does nothing until all probable outcomes favor her.

The kid says some hurtful words or breaks the OP's kids stuff, what does she expect the other girl to do in reaction?

She expects the kid to do one or more of the following:

• cry
• try to fight back with words or insults
• tattle
• fight back physically

If the OP's kid does any of the above, the other girl will have gotten what she wanted; the bully will have won.

People learn early what the rewards for certain behaviors are; a bully rarely picks a fight he cannot win and winning is sometimes defined in really absurd ways.

It's a sucker bet, and the only way to win a sucker bet is to walk away from it.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I thoroughly disagree, about most of what you said, for many different reasons.

Well, I am not sure why you disagree...
Doesn't really matter.

There is no question or disagreement here, or by others who have handled bullies this way.

This approach works...

It worked for us, twice...
And has worked for countless others.

Problem solved....
Nothing here to disagree with.

Like the one other poster, who, oddly enough, has the opposite viewpoint, just said. Bullies pick fights with (bully) those that they know they can win... get away with it... 'because they can'.

Standing up to the bully (which is NOT 'engaging' with them) is the one sure-fire way to let them know that you are not a willing victim. that they will NOT get-away-with-it (win) if they think they are gonna bully you.

OP: You do need to work with your child and make sure that they do not present themselves as a willing victim.

 

[cobright]

You know what the bully's answer is, when asked 'why'.
"BECAUSE I CAN...." (followed by evil laughter)
That is completely and 100% ALWAYS the answer.
[...]
But, by last year, when the second incident happened, he was able to take our advice and to be brave and to stand up to the other kid.
I think that this was a huge lesson in 'empowerment' for my son!

That's probably what the bully will say. But people lie a lot. The reason a bully does anything is because they want to win the game that's playing inside their heads. They win by getting people to do what they want.

So your son yelled back at a bully in the hall, and the bully stops tormenting him in the hall. Now it's all whispers behind your son's back. Things he heard about your son doing over summer break. Look how close your son and his buddy sit next to each other. His cousin told him your son was seen at a Justin Bieber concert... Whatever, you get the idea.

Trying to beat a bully at their own game simply confirms you as a player of that game.

I know this because I was the shy kid who developed a talent for violence. I spent the second half of my highschool breaking the nose of every jerk that shoved me or taunted me.

It was the worst mistake of my life. Not because those people didn't deserve a beating. And not because I care much about the beatings I suffered. But because it didn't work. I punched this big ox of a bully until my hands broke and he ended up in the hospital, do you think he learned the error of his ways? He didn't. He just had all the more reason when he broke four of my ribs and nearly punctured my lung.

Anything you do or say to a bully is already written on their script, you just end up dancing to their tune. Anything, that is, except walking away.

 

[luvsJack]

When I say "Walk to an adult" I don't mean to ******* I tell my daughter to simply remove herself from the situation.

Consider this dynamic. The person doing the bullying is a master of the sucker bet. This person does nothing until all probable outcomes favor her.

The kid says some hurtful words or breaks the OP's kids stuff, what does she expect the other girl to do in reaction?

She expects the kid to do one or more of the following:

• cry
• try to fight back with words or insults
• tattle
• fight back physically

If the OP's kid does any of the above, the other girl will have gotten what she wanted; the bully will have won.

People learn early what the rewards for certain behaviors are; a bully rarely picks a fight he cannot win and winning is sometimes defined in really absurd ways.

It's a sucker bet, and the only way to win a sucker bet is to walk away from it.

Most bullies are not willing to stand and fight. They prey on those they don't think will fight back. That is why fighting, yelling in their face, or anything that seems aggressive will get most of them to back down.

All it took for dd's bully was for dd to get angry enough and she hit her in the back of the head with a basketball--did NOT hurt the girl, but it did surprise her. Once the girl knew that dd would not back down to her again, she stopped and went to find another victim, until the school put a stop to her bullying. DD has never hit anyone since,

For ds's, we honestly tried every other thing because ds was so much smaller than him. Ds picked up a helmet at practice and put 8 stitches in the boys head. From that moment, the boy left ds and alone and would tell anyone else to leave ds alone. Ds finally became the happy, go lucky kid again that he was before the bullying started. And never got into another fight at school No more anger or feeling like less than he was. The bully stopped being a bully and actually told ds a couple of years later that he was 100% right for what he did. Now, I don't advise anyone else to pick up a football helmet but the fact is, it stopped the bullying.

MOST of the time, imo, when a parent says their child has a bully and they tell their child to stand up to the bully, it works. I always say, go to the school first. Try everything else, but in the end if nothing else works, defend yourself.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

I think that, for my DD anyway, part of the process of the bullying is to lower someone's self esteem. Standing up to this girl, in public and loudly, gave her back the power to control her day. Lots of times people will say that their kid went back to their normal happy self after a confrontation. I believe that's because it is a huge self esteem boost to take control of a situation on your own and get it handled.

In my case, I did talk to my DD's teacher and let her know what I told my daughter to do. I also let her know that if this kid laid a hand on my DD, I had instructed DD to lay her out. Now my DD doesn't know that I went to her teacher, she still feels like she handled it all by herself. It took a lot of courage for her to do that, and it gave her the confidence that she may have been lacking previously.