Bully at School?

[ashley0139]

The way social media is these days, the bullying has left the playground and is on the computer. Schools NEED to be involved, because when kids have the luxury of bullying with a screen in front of them, they are A LOT more vicious, because its easy to be big and say nasty things from behind a screen. Cyber-bullying is a real term. Bullying has become such a hot button issue these days BECAUSE of social media sites, and schools should not turn a blind eye to printed proof of bullying. There has to be consequences, and there are far too many parents not willing to believe that there child would be bully, so to go to the parents would more often than not, not lead to any change. What will make a difference to you? A parent you don't know saying that your kid is a bully OR a principal or teacher coming to you with that same issue. The schools MUST be involved, because most of the time, that is the only consequence of bullying actions.

OP, glad the issue was resolved. You took all the necessary steps. If you don't advocate for your kid, who will?

I'm sorry, but no. Schools don't need to be involved. PARENTS need to be involved. And if they're not, it's not the school's place to get involved on what is said on the internet, unless it actually happens at school. Believe me, I'm very aware of cyber bullying and the effect it can have. If a parent can print out what was said on Facebook and bring it to the school, they can just as easily bring to to the parent. There's hard proof. It is NOT school's job to parent. If the children ran into each other at the store and one of them said something, the school would have no authority. It is the same here. If it were my kid bullying, I would laugh in the face of a school trying to punish a kid for something they did on their own time (of course, if it were on school property it's a different story). If another parent came to me with their concerns, THEN I would take action. It's insane to think a school would have authority over all their students' private lives.

 

[IUTBAM]

I'm sorry, but no. Schools don't need to be involved. PARENTS need to be involved. And if they're not, it's not the school's place to get involved on what is said on the internet, unless it actually happens at school. Believe me, I'm very aware of cyber bullying and the effect it can have. If a parent can print out what was said on Facebook and bring it to the school, they can just as easily bring to to the parent. There's hard proof. It is NOT school's job to parent. If the children ran into each other at the store and one of them said something, the school would have no authority. It is the same here. If it were my kid bullying, I would laugh in the face of a school trying to punish a kid for something they did on their own time (of course, if it were on school property it's a different story). If another parent came to me with their concerns, THEN I would take action. It's insane to think a school would have authority over all their students' private lives.

You're right, parents do need to be involved in their child's life. Perhaps had these parents been involved their disgusting delinquent son wouldn 't have been making violent threats on FB about what he'd like to do to my DD if he saw her in the halls at school. Could I trust that these parents (who I don't know and have never met) are going to make sure their son stays away from my daughter, and hand out consequences? HECK NO. Could I trust that the school (and law enforcement officials which the school gave us the option of contacting and we declined at that point, since we felt confident the school would handle it) would make sure he stays away, and/or hand out consequences for this type of behavior? Heck yes. And the school did. We live in the best school district in the Denver metro area, and I applaud them for the way they handled this.

 

[Liberty Belle]

Well, I am not sure why you disagree...
Doesn't really matter.

There is no question or disagreement here, or by others who have handled bullies this way.

This approach works...

It worked for us, twice...
And has worked for countless others.

Problem solved....
Nothing here to disagree with.

Like the one other poster, who, oddly enough, has the opposite viewpoint, just said. Bullies pick fights with (bully) those that they know they can win... get away with it... 'because they can'.

Standing up to the bully (which is NOT 'engaging' with them) is the one sure-fire way to let them know that you are not a willing victim. that they will NOT get-away-with-it (win) if they think they are gonna bully you.

OP: You do need to work with your child and make sure that they do not present themselves as a willing victim.

Again, there is plenty to disagree with, but I do not want to argue with you. I just wanted OP to know that I did not agree with what you said.

 

[Colleen27]

I'm sorry, but no. Schools don't need to be involved. PARENTS need to be involved. And if they're not, it's not the school's place to get involved on what is said on the internet, unless it actually happens at school. Believe me, I'm very aware of cyber bullying and the effect it can have. If a parent can print out what was said on Facebook and bring it to the school, they can just as easily bring to to the parent. There's hard proof. It is NOT school's job to parent. If the children ran into each other at the store and one of them said something, the school would have no authority. It is the same here. If it were my kid bullying, I would laugh in the face of a school trying to punish a kid for something they did on their own time (of course, if it were on school property it's a different story). If another parent came to me with their concerns, THEN I would take action. It's insane to think a school would have authority over all their students' private lives.

I'm torn on this one, because I see the schools as the only authority that has even the slightest basis for stepping in to most cyber-bullying situations. I've yet to encounter a bullying situation that could be resolved by going to the bully's parents - either they're enablers, in complete denial, or so dysfunctional themselves that they couldn't begin to parent effectively even if they tried. And in most cases, bullying doesn't escalate to a level that law enforcement will get involved in and take seriously. So what does that leave? Only the schools, which is usually where it starts anyway because that's where the bullies find their targets. I don't generally think schools should be getting involved in things that happen entirely off-campus, but in the case of online bullying I'm not sure who else has the power to even attempt to stop it.

 

[elaine amj]

We had an issue with a bully and my now 11 year old when he was younger. Years of emails, meetings with teachers, principal & superintendent, attempted separations, you name it. In the 3rd grade, we did all of the above but by the end of the first month of school, and he was still being tormented every day. We finally told him to punch this bully back. Warn him, Then haul off and slug him hard...make it hurt, make an impression.

He did, there was a bloody nose and lots of crying and dramatics involved. We all ended up in the principal's office, emails, files, records in hand. My son got a one day suspension due to the ridiculous "no tolerance" policies, but the best news is that the bully never touched or picked on my son again. He tried last year starting with some snotty comments, and my son told him he has no issues with beating the snot out of him again. That was it...he's stayed away. Completely worth the one day off.

I'm not into using physical violence - but I am slowly coming to the side where sometimes - it is necessary.

That's insane, and completely inappropriate. The school has (should have) no authority over what happens in kids' private lives outside of school. That's so far reaching over the line I can't even see the line.

I see nothing wrong with a code of conduct that covers their after school hours. Many employers have a code of conduct - why not allow schools some measure of authority?

Like a PP pointed out, many times, there is no point going to the bully's parent. My close friend's Grade 3 DD was bullied this year. She went to the bully's parents. No help there. The school actually initially gave her DD detention because the bully physically forced her to toilet paper the washroom! And even after the facts came out, they were reluctant to rescind the detention! They did eventually - but I thought that was pure stupidity.

Very minor bullying story: When my kids were little some 6/7 yr old boys moved into the neighborhood. They were mean to my kids. I told my kids to stay and that they were not allowed on our property. One day the boys came over and knocked down my DS' snowman while he cried and begged them to stop. They came inside wailing and I marched right over to the neighbor's house and told the mom. Her response? "Boys will be boys". I was livid. Thankfully they moved out not too long after.

SOMEBODY needs the authority to do something. Cyberbullying is such a serious issue. Local law enforcements' hands are often tied. Plus kids bullying are such minor issues compared to the many criminal activities they have to deal with. More often than not, zero tolerance policies has allowed stupidity free reign and does not restrain the bullies. Kids are getting hurt - surely in our day and age we can find ways to help kids feel safe?

 

[disneydee6]

I'm sorry, but no. Schools don't need to be involved. PARENTS need to be involved. And if they're not, it's not the school's place to get involved on what is said on the internet, unless it actually happens at school. Believe me, I'm very aware of cyber bullying and the effect it can have. If a parent can print out what was said on Facebook and bring it to the school, they can just as easily bring to to the parent. There's hard proof. It is NOT school's job to parent. If the children ran into each other at the store and one of them said something, the school would have no authority. It is the same here. If it were my kid bullying, I would laugh in the face of a school trying to punish a kid for something they did on their own time (of course, if it were on school property it's a different story). If another parent came to me with their concerns, THEN I would take action. It's insane to think a school would have authority over all their students' private lives.

While I agree that parents SHOULD be involved, and in theory, it seems like a fair idea. There are many uninvolved parents that will provide zero consequences for their child's actions, or excuse their bad behavior. It isn't the schools job to parent, but it is a job forced upon teachers and administration for the many students whose parents look the other way at the child's poor behavior. Schools also provide objectivity that parents do not.
You say you would take action, which means you will do what you are SUPPOSED to do as a parent , I work with enough of them to know that there are plenty that do not (as a home instructor I work with suspended kids often, parents LOVE to play the blame game because their child is an ) It would also be insane for schools to look the other way at cyberbullying happening in OR outside of schools. Before social media, kids had 7 hrs of bullying at school, now it happens 24/7, because home isn't an escape, so schools have to include online bullying in their policies.

 

[disneydee6]

I'm sorry, but no. Schools don't need to be involved. PARENTS need to be involved. And if they're not, it's not the school's place to get involved on what is said on the internet, unless it actually happens at school. Believe me, I'm very aware of cyber bullying and the effect it can have. If a parent can print out what was said on Facebook and bring it to the school, they can just as easily bring to to the parent. There's hard proof. It is NOT school's job to parent. If the children ran into each other at the store and one of them said something, the school would have no authority. It is the same here. If it were my kid bullying, I would laugh in the face of a school trying to punish a kid for something they did on their own time (of course, if it were on school property it's a different story). If another parent came to me with their concerns, THEN I would take action. It's insane to think a school would have authority over all their students' private lives.

While I agree that parents SHOULD be involved, and in theory, it seems like a fair idea. There are many uninvolved parents that will provide zero consequences for their child's actions, or excuse their bad behavior. It isn't the schools job to parent, but it is a job forced upon teachers and administration for the many students whose parents look the other way at the child's poor behavior. Schools also provide objectivity that parents do not.
You say you would take action, which means you will do what you are SUPPOSED to do as a parent , I work with enough of them to know that there are plenty that do not (as a home instructor I work with suspended kids often, parents LOVE to play the blame game because their child is an ) It would also be insane for schools to look the other way at cyberbullying happening in OR outside of schools. Before social media, kids had 7 hrs of bullying at school, now it happens 24/7, because home isn't an escape, so schools have to include online bullying in their policies.

 

[ashley0139]

You're right, parents do need to be involved in their child's life. Perhaps had these parents been involved their disgusting delinquent son wouldn 't have been making violent threats on FB about what he'd like to do to my DD if he saw her in the halls at school. Could I trust that these parents (who I don't know and have never met) are going to make sure their son stays away from my daughter, and hand out consequences? HECK NO. Could I trust that the school (and law enforcement officials which the school gave us the option of contacting and we declined at that point, since we felt confident the school would handle it) would make sure he stays away, and/or hand out consequences for this type of behavior? Heck yes. And the school did. We live in the best school district in the Denver metro area, and I applaud them for the way they handled this.

I'm sure you are happy with how it was handled. If it were my kid I would be happy with how it was handled as well. However, I still don't think it was the RIGHT way to handle it. There were serious threats made against your daughter - that's for law enforcement to handle, not a school to handle by giving out suspension.

I see nothing wrong with a code of conduct that covers their after school hours. Many employers have a code of conduct - why not allow schools some measure of authority?

Why now allow them authority? Because they're not the law, they're not the government, and they're not parents. They're there to effectively educate children, which obviously means dealing with bullying on school properly so that everyone feels safe in their education environment. That does not mean dictating how people act outside of school. You see nothing wrong with a code of conduct that covers after school hours? Where does it end? Can they be punished for saying a curse word in their own home? Disrespecting their parents? Stealing from a store (beyond the store's prosecution)? The rules are rules for school. Not their entire lives. At least, as long as it's a public school.

I'm torn on this one, because I see the schools as the only authority that has even the slightest basis for stepping in to most cyber-bullying situations. I've yet to encounter a bullying situation that could be resolved by going to the bully's parents - either they're enablers, in complete denial, or so dysfunctional themselves that they couldn't begin to parent effectively even if they tried. And in most cases, bullying doesn't escalate to a level that law enforcement will get involved in and take seriously. So what does that leave? Only the schools, which is usually where it starts anyway because that's where the bullies find their targets. I don't generally think schools should be getting involved in things that happen entirely off-campus, but in the case of online bullying I'm not sure who else has the power to even attempt to stop it.

I understand being torn - so many parents these days can't believe their angel children could do such a thing. And when you see someone you love getting hurt, you want anything and everything that could possibly happen to their abuser to happen. But it's still the job of the parents to raise kids, not the schools. And when you start letting the schools punish for something that happens outside of school, you're getting into a very dangerous area. Where does it end? And as for who has the power to stop online bullying, if nothing else, the parents of the kids it's happening to. If your kid is being bullied by messages on Facebook, make them get of Facebook! There's no requirement that says they have to have an online presence in any way. I know these days it's almost ubiquitous, but they can also remove themselves from the harmful situation.

 

[Colleen27]

I understand being torn - so many parents these days can't believe their angel children could do such a thing. And when you see someone you love getting hurt, you want anything and everything that could possibly happen to their abuser to happen. But it's still the job of the parents to raise kids, not the schools. And when you start letting the schools punish for something that happens outside of school, you're getting into a very dangerous area. Where does it end? And as for who has the power to stop online bullying, if nothing else, the parents of the kids it's happening to. If your kid is being bullied by messages on Facebook, make them get of Facebook! There's no requirement that says they have to have an online presence in any way. I know these days it's almost ubiquitous, but they can also remove themselves from the harmful situation.

I think that's a solution that sends the absolutely wrong message - it is punishing the victim, plain and simple. It is no different than effectively grounding a child to the house to avoid a neighborhood bully... The victim loses the ability to do the things his peers are doing, and the bully "wins". We don't teach kids that they shouldn't drive because some people are dangerous behind the wheel, we don't tell our girls that they shouldn't go out alone because some men will view them as potential victims, and I don't think we should teach our children that they have to miss out on the socialization that is normal/expected these days because bullies have figured out that no one will punish them for online attacks.

I agree that letting schools police out-of-school behaviour is slippery slope territory, but at the same time I think that our policies and laws have failed to keep pace with technology. Less than ideal enforcement and discipline is better than none at all.

 

[elaine amj]

I think that's a solution that sends the absolutely wrong message - it is punishing the victim, plain and simple. It is no different than effectively grounding a child to the house to avoid a neighborhood bully... The victim loses the ability to do the things his peers are doing, and the bully "wins". We don't teach kids that they shouldn't drive because some people are dangerous behind the wheel, we don't tell our girls that they shouldn't go out alone because some men will view them as potential victims, and I don't think we should teach our children that they have to miss out on the socialization that is normal/expected these days because bullies have figured out that no one will punish them for online attacks.

I agree that letting schools police out-of-school behaviour is slippery slope territory, but at the same time I think that our policies and laws have failed to keep pace with technology. Less than ideal enforcement and discipline is better than none at all.

 

[ashley0139]

I think that's a solution that sends the absolutely wrong message - it is punishing the victim, plain and simple. It is no different than effectively grounding a child to the house to avoid a neighborhood bully... The victim loses the ability to do the things his peers are doing, and the bully "wins". We don't teach kids that they shouldn't drive because some people are dangerous behind the wheel, we don't tell our girls that they shouldn't go out alone because some men will view them as potential victims, and I don't think we should teach our children that they have to miss out on the socialization that is normal/expected these days because bullies have figured out that no one will punish them for online attacks.

I agree that letting schools police out-of-school behaviour is slippery slope territory, but at the same time I think that our policies and laws have failed to keep pace with technology. Less than ideal enforcement and discipline is better than none at all.

You're right, it's not right. Bullying is not right. And perhaps I shouldn't have said get off Facebook completely, but remove yourself from the situation. Unfriend and block the person completely. If someone were bullying in real life you're not going to go looking for the person. Don't knowingly and purposefully put yourself in a bad situation. You're going to avoid the person in real life, avoid them online as well.

I totally agree with you that laws have failed in the face of new technology and social media. But I don't think the answer is schools disciplining for something that happens on the internet. But I tend toward less policy and oversight in general.

 

[Pigeon]

Schools are not employers. That's an analogy that's a total failure.

We do not have compulsory employment. Children are not financially compensated for going to school.

If you want to send your kids to private school, that's different, but public schools, forget it. Schools already overreach far too much into things that are none of their business. Kids have parents and guardians and they are the appropriate people to develop a "code of conduct" for family life.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Okay, I simply can NOT believe that I am saying this...
Because, Pigeon, on SO many levels, I agree with you 110%

Many of you know that I am no champion of our public school system.
I have homeschooled.

But, after what I have been seeing in recent years....
OMG, am I REALLY saying this....
Am I really coming close to parent bashing....
Somebody stop me!!!!!!

But, there is no doubt in my mind that in our culture, today, many kids are not being parented, and many parents are not appropriate.

Having said that.....
I believe that IF A CHILD IS ACTUALLY BEING THREATENED... NO MATTER WHAT METHOD IS USED TO CONVEY ANY THREATENING LANGUAGE... THE SCHOOLS SHOULD HAVE, NOT ONLY THE RIGHT, BUT THE UTMOST RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT THE WELL BEING OF THE STUDENTS.

I don't think it would be too hard to draw that line between 'a student or parents brought forth a concern, and evidence to back it up'.... and the schools monitoring and policing actions and communications outside of school. In other words, the school should have no direct policy about what is appropriate or not appropriate outside of school grounds... But, that any bullying or threat that could be affecting a child at school, no matter where the threat originates, should be taken very seriously under zero-tolerance bullying policies.

Okay... off my big soapbox!!!!!

 

[ashley0139]

Schools are not employers. That's an analogy that's a total failure.

We do not have compulsory employment. Children are not financially compensated for going to school.

If you want to send your kids to private school, that's different, but public schools, forget it. Schools already overreach far too much into things that are none of their business. Kids have parents and guardians and they are the appropriate people to develop a "code of conduct" for family life.

Absolutely.

 

[Pigeon]

Wishing, I'm a huge believer in public education. IMO, most of what's wrong with it is societal dysfunction. People keep expecting schools to fix things they can't possibly fix, and that drains resources, time and focus away from teaching.

 

[mefordis]

I am going to go against everything the school says to do.

I would teach your daughter to fight back.

Kid takes daughters lunch daughter punches her in the face.

Yeah its wrong but guess what it sounds like the school has done nothing and the girls parents are also not doing anything.

Sounds good in theory but in reality what would happen is the victim becomes the bad guy, gets sent to counseling and all of a sudden she feels like the problem student. The actual bully becomes the victim. That doesn't work with adults (jail time and an assault record) and it doesn't work for kids either.

It's a tough situation. You can't make your daughter react a certain way. More confidence might do it. Maybe enroll her in some sport that will get her confidence up. Lacrosse or soccer are good. Something that takes being aggressive. She needs to be confident enough to put the bully in place using words, not violence. Making sarcastic remarks that embarrass her would work.