Broke vs. Poor

[stemikger]

mlwear,

I was brought up in a similiar situation, except my parents were never good with money. My mom lost the house after my dad died and it forever changed the way I look at money. I actually became a good money guy whereas, my sister never learned the lessons of my mom. Sorry for getting a little OT.

I happen to know a women in her early 40s who is so wealthy but she is always saying how hard things are and how she is a few steps away from being a bag lady. I literally have to leave the room when she starts talking like this. I happen to know she is a millionaire, but I think she has a sickness and is always referring to herself as poor. I think she is poor in character and morals, but certainly not money.

 

[crisi]

Hey Rkmassa, Take a chill pill.

I'm not talking about poverty in third world countries, I'm talking about people who can do better but because of circumstances they feel trapped. Anyone who lives in this country can better themselves. Not everyone can be rich, but most people who motiviate themselves can eat.

In third world countries they can't do better no matter how motivated they are. So I think we both agree on that so TAKE A CHILL PILL AND STOP MAKING EVERYTHING SO PC.

IMHO if you were born in this country you already hit the lottery.

Relatively, yes. But read "There are No Children Here" about growing up in Cabrini Green. Or read about the kids of migrant workers. There are lots of pockets of extreme poverty even in the U.S. - and sometimes in some surprising places. Their chances are better than someone growning up poor in Bangladesh, but they still aren't great chances. I'd rather be born rich in India than poor in the United States.

 

[HilWil]

I can say I grew up Rich, but we were very poor, my parents did everything to make ends meet. But we always picked and saved to travel and experience things. My Dad started his own business, his dream, so we all worked the family business. We all still do. We don't make very much I barely made 19,000 last year. My FH had major medical scare last year and he barely brought home 12,000, which is amazing he is even alive, He is 31 and had a rupture of his aneurysm which we found out then that he has three. He is lucky to even be alive. The one that ruptured was the major vessel in the back of his brain. Luckily they were able to coil it and he thankfully made it thru with out any major loss of function. We still had three additional surgeries this past year, and he is no longer able to get life insurance. but he did have health insurance at the time. We have four children, we barely can keep the bills paid, but we have each other and that is what really matters, you can't take money or things with you when you die, experinces and time are all that matter.

We are going to Florida in April to get married. He has never been anywhere and while he is still in our lives I want to experience everything the world has to offer. When we went thru the death scare I came to realize nothing but your LIFE matters. It would be great to have money, but I would rather have my family life anyday over the money.

 

[stemikger]

Originally posted by Hilwil
Does it really Matter??

You seem to have your priorities very well put together Hil. In the end all that really matters is family and the love you share with them and others. Godspeed to you and yours.

Having said that, there is a place for a good plan. I watched my mom lose everything after my dad died. She lost the house and everything she owned. I was young when this happened so I wasn't able to help her. After seeing that, I made it a priority in my life to try to understand this money stuff. With the help of books by David Bach and Dave Ramsey, I was able to learn from my mom's mistakes and put myself in a position to have an umbrella when it rains. When my dad got sick at 48 years old, he didn't have any savings, he died at 50 and my mom had nothing.

Money does have a place in your life as long as you count your other blessings, the money gives you a freedom that you otherwise would not have.

 

[stemikger]

Originally quoted by Crisi
Their chances are better than someone growning up poor in Bangladesh, but they still aren't great chances. I'd rather be born rich in India than poor in the United States.

I don't really know much about India, but I love the Good Ol'e U.S.A. and there were many, many successful people who grew up in extreme poverty who went on to being very successful. Why do you think so many immigrants want to come here? It's because of all the opportunity that is all around us.

I personally know a couple of people who came here from other countries and they are so greatful to work and better their lives. They work harder then anyone I know and do it with pride, because they know they could not have this opportunity in their country.

 

[problemchild718]

Amen! Poor is holding your sick, hungry child and knowing you as a mommy or daddy can't fix it. Not a matter of making a bad $$$ decision-a matter of having no $$$ and not too much hope of getting more.

 

[Sylvester McBean]

a lot of people in this country max themselves out all for the bigger and better deal. homes and vehicles and toys they really can't afford, then scrape by paycheck to paycheck complaining they're broke. I agree that the USA is the best place to live for the opportunities. my dad sank everything into a restaurant when he was 30. by 35, the restaurant was failing and he declared bankruptcy. he took a job he didn't like in the insurance field and worked his way up. growing up I always thought he was the cheapest man alive, but now I know he had learned a lesson and took every extra cent we had and invested it.

 

[HilWil]

We don't make much but we still live to the fullest, I am the alltimate budget liver, We have nice things I own my house, the only debt we have is my house which isn't much, we don't use credit cards, we travel, we eat dinner together, we do things on the weekends, we don't live off the goverment. All always tell my children to live life to the fullest and give to the fullest. There is always someone worse off than yourself and if everyone would just help everyone the world would be a nicer peaceful place. Everyone always has something to give.

 

[dcfromva]

My thinking may be all wrong, but...

I think being broke is a state of mind, much like consumer confidence. I was thinking of those families on the Oprah show who continue to consume despite not having the resources to cover it--they don't seem to feel they are broke.
On the other hand, I know some folks who make a respectable income, but since all their resources are allocated in one way or another (savings for college, retirement, paying extra on mortgage, et'c., et'c.), feel they are broke and seriously curtail unecessary consumer spending....

-DC

 

[barkley]

2004 Poverty Guidelines for the 48 Contiguous States and the
District of Columbia
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Poverty
Size of family unit guideline
------------------------------------------------------------------------
1....................................................... $9,310
2....................................................... 12,490
3....................................................... 15,670
4....................................................... 18,850
5....................................................... 22,030
6....................................................... 25,210
7....................................................... 28,390
8....................................................... 31,570
------------------------------------------------------------------------

For family units with more than 8 members, add $3,180 for each
additional member. (The same increment applies to smaller family sizes
also, as can be seen in the figures above.)

this is one way to figure it-but there is also MBSAC (minimum basic adequate standard of care) which are the monetary figures that the u.s. government says an individual or family unit can achieve an "adequate sustaining life" by-these are also the figures by which states can base/justify their public assistance payments on.

for a family of 4 the mbsac is $1060.00 per month. this is the amount the u.s. government states a family of four can achieve housing, utilites, food, clothing and personal needs by. most states give only a percentage of that figure for public assistance payments-in some the maximum grant for a family that size would be $839-$935 per month (they might qualify for food stamps but for a family of 4 with that grant amount it would'nt be much more than a couple hundred dollars in food stamps).

having worked social services in a county that included some of the lowest and highest "income" residents in california (and seeing people in both categories apply for public assistance) i came to believe that there are 3 desigantions: underprivledged, poor and broke.

underprivledged has inadequate educational opportunites, and none or few opportunites to self-help (limited jobs that provide no opportunity to gain skills that will help the employee move up or onward to better jobs), few social programs to assist future generations achieve a better standard of living, and no alternatives to their current standard of living (moving from an area with no resources to move is not a choice).

poor has more adequate educational opportunities but perhaps due to where they are physicaly located there are not the secondary educational opportunites to advance beyond basic entry level jobs, and the jobs in the geographical area are just low paying-with little or no alternatives available to them. the "poor" that i encountered however, generaly had tremendous survival mechanisms-they would not hesitate to pool resources with family and neighbors, if they had the ability to garden (even in an urban setting) and generate food products on their own they utilized their resources (a little known fact: food stamps can be used to purchase seeds to plant edible gardens).

broke were people who had a monetary resource (be it income or public assistance) and be it the million dollar earner or the sub minimum wage earner -they looked only at their available/accessable "cash on hand" (ignoring what the monies spent had/have gone to) and had alternative spending choices available to them. i encountered many applying for public assistance who in no way met the financial criteria but in their minds they were perpetualy "broke"-what they failed to recognize was that they had full scope medical care, a car with insurance, a home (owned or rented) that they were meeting the payment on each month, and plenty of "luxuries" (though according to them a dsl line, cell phone, cable tv, and only "brand name" clothing were necessities). in most cases the "broke" person had alternatives which they could employ to shift expenses around and meet their "basic needs".

there are lots of times when i "feel" broke (no cash in hand)-but as long as my housing/untilities are covered, there's food in the house, my kids have medical care available, and i'm have my life insurance paid-i know i'm a lot better off than i could be-and many people are.

 

[disneysteve]

Just a word of advice to all the parents here. No matter what your personal financial situation, be sure to expose your children to people less fortunate than yourselves. You may be able to do this in your local area - visit a soup kitchen, an orphanage, a homeless shelter. Do some voulunteer work. Have your kids donate their outgrown clothes and no-longer-wanted toys to kids that have none, and take them to see those kids - don't just drop a bag at the Goodwill store.

If you have the financial resources, travel to economically depressed countries. DD is 10 and has already visited the Yucatan peninsula of Mexico, Belize, the Dominican Republic and some other places. She has used a "bathroom" that was nothing more than corrugated metal walls and a hole in the ground. She has walked the streets of a town and seen the "garbage truck" which consisted of a donkey-pulled wagon picking up trash. She has seen people living in cinder block homes with no doors or windows.

Even at a young age, these experiences have definitely made an impression on her. She understands on some level how lucky she is to have the life she has and how important it is to devote some of what we have to helping others.

Ok, I'll put away the soap-box now. I am not poor - nowhere near it - and I'm thankful for that every single day.

 

[disneychrista]

Poor means that your income doesn't cover you basic necessities.

Broke means you are spending all your income on necessities and/or extras.

 

[bamagirl@hrt]

I went on a medical mission trip a few years ago to the interior of Jamaica, far from the tourist areas. We experienced some eye-opening things, like people who have no toilets. One room shacks made of corrugated aluminum. Pigs living under the house. Old ladies who walked 2hrs over mountains to get free blood pressure meds. Young mothers who couldn't afford Tylenol for the sick babies. Lots of people who exist on yams, pineapple and the occasional fish--once a day. Women who lost 36wk "premies" because of lack of medical care. Asthma from cooking over fires. Venereal disease. Worms. More rotten teeth than you can count.

My idea of poverty was changed forever.

I totally know where you're coming from there. My DH & I went to Jamaica on a mission trip before we had children. My husband is an optometrist & participated in one of several medical clinics our group provided in the mountains near Montego Bay. I helped with Vacation Bible School. We saw shacks in the mountains that were pitiful. We saw 1 room cubes made out of cinder blocks with no doors. Raw sewage ran in the streets. Children not more than 5 years old having to care for their younger siblings. It was heartbreaking. I don't know if I could ever go to a resort in Jamaica and enjoy myself, knowing how those people live. I know it's that way in many parts of the world. But seeing it in person makes a huge difference.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Just a word of advice to all the parents here. No matter what your personal financial situation, be sure to expose your children to people less fortunate than yourselves. You may be able to do this in your local area - visit a soup kitchen, an orphanage, a homeless shelter. Do some voulunteer work. Have your kids donate their outgrown clothes and no-longer-wanted toys to kids that have none, and take them to see those kids - don't just drop a bag at the Goodwill store.

If you have the financial resources, travel to economically depressed countries. DD is 10 and has already visited the Yucatan peninsula of Mexico, Belize, the Dominican Republic and some other places. She has used a "bathroom" that was nothing more than corrugated metal walls and a hole in the ground. She has walked the streets of a town and seen the "garbage truck" which consisted of a donkey-pulled wagon picking up trash. She has seen people living in cinder block homes with no doors or windows.

Even at a young age, these experiences have definitely made an impression on her. She understands on some level how lucky she is to have the life she has and how important it is to devote some of what we have to helping others.

Ok, I'll put away the soap-box now. I am not poor - nowhere near it - and I'm thankful for that every single day.

Steve,
I agree 100%. It is nice to say how big your accounts are, how big your house is or how nice your cars are, but we are all members of the human race and need to spend some of our good fortunes helping others. My giving to those less fortunate may delay my retirement by a year or two or make me wait a little longer for than thing I wanted to buy, but the help it provided those in need could change their entire life and make the next 50+ years so much more rewarding. No matter how bad we have it there is alway somebody worse off. If we all just helped one or two people less fortunate then us and it kept going, everybody would be rewarded.

 

[mjbaby]

barkley, that was beautifully said and the essence of what I was trying to get at. Thank you!

 

[stemikger]

Hey Barkley,

What a showoff. Please keep your comments at the 6th grade level. I hate when someone makes so much sense in such an articulate way. LOL.

You really hit the nail on the head. But now that the debate is over, you are also a thread killer. : )
LOL.

 

[dvcgirl]

broke were people who had a monetary resource (be it income or public assistance) and be it the million dollar earner or the sub minimum wage earner -they looked only at their available/accessable "cash on hand" (ignoring what the monies spent had/have gone to) and had alternative spending choices available to them. i encountered many applying for public assistance who in no way met the financial criteria but in their minds they were perpetualy "broke"-what they failed to recognize was that they had full scope medical care, a car with insurance, a home (owned or rented) that they were meeting the payment on each month, and plenty of "luxuries" (though according to them a dsl line, cell phone, cable tv, and only "brand name" clothing were necessities). in most cases the "broke" person had alternatives which they could employ to shift expenses around and meet their "basic needs".

there are lots of times when i "feel" broke (no cash in hand)-but as long as my housing/untilities are covered, there's food in the house, my kids have medical care available, and i'm have my life insurance paid-i know i'm a lot better off than i could be-and many people are.

Exactly, people who are continually "broke", but feel "poor", need a reality check in many cases. Lots of people will say, "we can't make ends meet any longer", but when those ends include things like cable TV, internet access, cell phone plans and yearly vacations...well then you're simply a poor financial manager of your income, and probably living above your means.

 

[jeankeri]

My family grew up with subsidized housing, food stamps and public assistance (raised by a divorced mom in the 70's; no support from dad). My mom always managed to meet our basic needs, but absolutely no extras in our house. My DH and I have both worked hard to achieve what is probably an upper middle class lifestyle. Reading the books 'City of Joy' and 'Angela's Ashes' have kept my past and current situation in perspective. While many who grow up like I did probably say they grew up poor, we were more likely broke. My sons have a very different life, for which I am grateful, but I have little sympathy for their lack of 'extras' (exS9 wants his own room). For my DS poor and broke are a state of mind. My DH recently went to Belize on a medical mission; the pictures and stories he brought back were eye-opening for my sons.

 

[robsmom]

I'd rather be born rich in India than poor in the United States.

I agree that a child born rich in India today is likely to have a better life than a child born born poor in the US today. I will still thank god, however, that I was born here as the American dream came true for our grandparents, parents and so far for us and that dream brought a huge portion of our population to the middle class. However, I don't think the American dream of upward mobility is what it once was and I worry that our middle class kids of today will have trouble finding good jobs in 20 years and that the poor in the US could become even poorer. I recently was in China. I would rather be poor in the US than poor in China any day in the week but the emerging middle and upper middle class in China was an astonishing thing to see. The speed of change is beyond anything we will see in the US.