"breeder" refuses to send AKC registration papers

[bedogged]

Wow, I've learned a lot from reading this thread! We always buy AKC registered labs from reputable breeders. We always get males and we've always gotten them neutered. And every time, as our dog gets older, we say, "boy, what a great dog, I sure wish he wasn't neutered so that we could take him to a breeder as stud and have one of his puppies." This of course never happens, because we always neuter them - for behavior and health reasons and because we want a squatter not a leg-lifter. As a matter of fact, our 15 week old yellow lab puppy is scheduled to be neutered and micro-chipped in 2 weeks. We just registered him and his papers say, "offspring of this dog not eligible for registration."

But from what I'm reading, am I correct in assuming that if we had wanted to stud him out to a breeder, his puppies wouldn't be eligible for AKC registration? Doesn't matter to us since we have zero plans for breeding and since he's getting snipped in 2 weeks, but just curious!

I'm sure that your puppy is a wonderful example of his breed. You love him, but the hard truth is that most reputable breeders only want to breed to dogs that are AKC champions. That takes a BIG commitment. Most breeders are unwilling to give a puppy back, opting instead to pay a stud fee. Also, the owner of the female traditionally takes her to the owner of the stud and the stud owner handles the breeding. Have you ever handled a breeding before? Just a lot to think about.

 

[kacaju]

We just registered him and his papers say, "offspring of this dog not eligible for registration."

But from what I'm reading, am I correct in assuming that if we had wanted to stud him out to a breeder, his puppies wouldn't be eligible for AKC registration? Doesn't matter to us since we have zero plans for breeding and since he's getting snipped in 2 weeks, but just curious!

You are correct, the breeder has him as a limited registration, so if you were to keep him intact...you would not be able to register any of his puppies

 

[bedogged]

My Chessies are from champion lines, and we were given a copied set of oapers from each parent and a lineage sheet. We also received confirmation that their hips and eyes were certified. We agreed to not use our male for breeding purposes and had to sign papers. He is a master hunter. Our female we showed for a brief time and the owner of the mother dog was partial owner. Unfortunately she became sick and we were unable to show her. We had to have her spayed since they were unsure if it was something congenital that caused her chylothorax. True breeders who remain true to the breed are very careful with paper work and lineage. Backyard breeders irritate me. Unless you know that dogs whole lineage and no health problems are being passed on, you have no business breeding. And there really is not much money in it after you factor in all the costs, puppy care, paperwork. My parents bred Wire Fox terriers and while we had 4 litters of adorable babies I can tell you those days were a lot of work and the only reward was that we had quality beautiful healthy pups to offer.

I'm so sorry about your dog's chylothorax. This is first time I have heard about it in Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. Lymphangiectasia which is often the cause of it, is unfortunately, common in toy breeds.

 

[kacaju]

I'm sure that your puppy is a wonderful example of his breed. You love him, but the hard truth is that most reputable breeders only want to breed to dogs that are AKC champions. That takes a BIG commitment. Most breeders are unwilling to give a puppy back, opting instead to pay a stud fee. Also, the owner of the female traditionally takes her to the owner of the stud and the stud owner handles the breeding. Have you ever handled a breeding before? Just a lot to think about.

Not always true.. I do know of breeders who will breed a non champion.. but it is what is behind them they are looking at. Sometimes too.. the female may need to fill out more and they get their championship after they have been bred. And it also depends I do know of breeders who do take a stud fee puppy instead of paying the stud fee.. But again..it totally depends on if the owner of the stud dog is interested in your female and interested in getting a pup form that breeding. When we bred our dog she was bred with a another dog locally and that stud dog owner had no interest in my puppies.

 

[Dizneefamily+4]

I'm sure that your puppy is a wonderful example of his breed. You love him, but the hard truth is that most reputable breeders only want to breed to dogs that are AKC champions. That takes a BIG commitment. Most breeders are unwilling to give a puppy back, opting instead to pay a stud fee. Also, the owner of the female traditionally takes her to the owner of the stud and the stud owner handles the breeding. Have you ever handled a breeding before? Just a lot to think about.

We have the full lineage of both parents - we received that from the breeder along with the hip and eye guarantee. They are AKC champions and champion hunting dogs. It's the hunting prowess that we were interested in as our labs are hunters (and more importantly, pets.) And we don't have to think about anything as far as breeding goes, because like I said, we have no real interest in it since we always neuter. I was just curious because of that statement on his registration papers.

 

[bedogged]

Not always true.. I do know of breeders who will breed a non champion.. but it is what is behind them they are looking at. Sometimes too.. the female may need to fill out more and they get their championship after they have been bred. And it also depends I do know of breeders who do take a stud fee puppy instead of paying the stud fee.. But again..it totally depends on if the owner of the stud dog is interested in your female and interested in getting a pup form that breeding. When we bred our dog she was bred with a another dog locally and that stud dog owner had no interest in my puppies.

Your breed has a much more limited gene pool than labs do. Even if Dizneefamily+4's dog were on regular registration, I believe the chances of his dog being used for stud by anyone other than himself are extremely limited. If the puppies's breeder had wanted to use him at stud, she would have kept him or co-owned him.

 

[bedogged]

We have the full lineage of both parents - we received that from the breeder along with the hip and eye guarantee. They are AKC champions and champion hunting dogs. It's the hunting prowess that we were interested in as our labs are hunters (and more importantly, pets.) And we don't have to think about anything as far as breeding goes, because like I said, we have no real interest in it since we always neuter. I was just curious because of that statement on his registration papers.

It sounds like you got a lovely puppy! I bet that he will be very sweet and laid-back, not at all hyper.

 

[cjbcam]

I know this is going to sound stupid but when we bought our purebred lab we signed a contract and took home papers with her. I thought these were her certificate and what not. Ironically she ate them/ tore them to shreds when we left her in the car for 5mins. They weren't really important because we are not showing her or breeding her. Anyways over a year later we received her real certificate in the mail.

 

[bittybabygrower]

I'm so sorry about your dog's chylothorax. This is first time I have heard about it in Chesapeake Bay Retrievers. Lymphangiectasia which is often the cause of it, is unfortunately, common in toy breeds.

Thanks, it can happen in deep chested breeds also, we found a great surgeon who gave us 6 more great years with her. Her fur never grew back right...she had a bohemian kind of look after and because she was so fat restricted on her diet her coat was never that beautiful Chessie shiny again. Miss that dog, she was awesome!

 

[gunner2010]

sorry but buying online puppies, well this is an expected result

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

Not always true.. I do know of breeders who will breed a non champion.. but it is what is behind them they are looking at. Sometimes too.. the female may need to fill out more and they get their championship after they have been bred. And it also depends I do know of breeders who do take a stud fee puppy instead of paying the stud fee.. But again..it totally depends on if the owner of the stud dog is interested in your female and interested in getting a pup form that breeding. When we bred our dog she was bred with a another dog locally and that stud dog owner had no interest in my puppies.

Agreed! The mother of one of my collies was not a champion. The father was.
The mother did get her championship after she had the litter of pups and her coat grew back.
Our pup we bought Jasmine was sold to us as a limited registration. Though one of my friends breeds and shows Shetland Sheepdogs. When Jasmine got a little older she told me to ask the breeders to reconsider so I could show her in confirmation. She had a great head, my friend told me, which in collies is a big thing.
I did show her for a while and she won a Best of Breed but as KACAJU can attest showing in confirmation is alot of work and political. I didnt want to give her back to the breeder to show so we stopped and I spayed her.
She showed in agility too.

Our Blue Merle we have was a promised puppy to a breeder in lieu of a stud fee. Belles jaw is deformed so her teeth are crooked. Therefore unable to show. We got her when she was 2.

Sorry OP but I hope your daughter doesnt get the papers. Breeding is a huge responsibility. Goldens have their fair share of health issues that all should be tested for before even thinking of studding out a dog.

 

[bedogged]

I know this is going to sound stupid but when we bought our purebred lab we signed a contract and took home papers with her. I thought these were her certificate and what not. Ironically she ate them/ tore them to shreds when we left her in the car for 5mins. They weren't really important because we are not showing her or breeding her. Anyways over a year later we received her real certificate in the mail.

The Canadian Kennel Club operates differently than the American Kennel Club.

 

[bedogged]

Thanks, it can happen in deep chested breeds also, we found a great surgeon who gave us 6 more great years with her. Her fur never grew back right...she had a bohemian kind of look after and because she was so fat restricted on her diet her coat was never that beautiful Chessie shiny again. Miss that dog, she was awesome!

Did she suffer from low blood protein?

 

[bittybabygrower]

She still had a small leak even after surgery, we had her on supplements (Rutin) and had to limit her fat intake. Once weekly she had a supplement of duck oil on her food. Her proteins were on the low normal side. But with all the supplements and low fat diet her body was able to handle and absorb the chyle.

 

[manning]

The best dog I had was a mutt and he had papers too. The tribune until he got house broken.

I think they got an expensive lesson.

 

[Jex]

The best dog I had was a mutt and he had papers too. The tribune until he got house broken.

I think they got an expensive lesson.

Best post I have seen in awhile.

 

[JillyBean1899]

The best dog I had was a mutt and he had papers too. The tribune until he got house broken.

I think they got an expensive lesson.

You win the internet for the evening.

My dog is a mutt, too. The only papers she has are adoption and shot records. That didn't stop someone from offering me $4000 for her in the middle of PetCo day when she was 6 months old. They wanted to breed her because they thought she was pretty. If I didn't love her so much, I would have done it, then let them find out she had been spayed at 4 months old. LOL

 

[alex9179]

Agreed. We have a registered AKC puppy and we were given limited registration papers as we are not permitted to breed him.

Also... They should not breed him without knowing his lineage. A good breeder breeds for the betterment of the breed and is trying to achieve something with a pairing. If they know nothing about their dog and it's history it's hard to do that.

It's also hard to do when you obviously don't know enough about careful breeding that you buy breeding stock from a CL ad. Good breeders often have a waiting list for puppies.

Honestly, they should neuter the dog at an appropriate age and enjoy him. He's not going to further the breed's development, but he can be the BEST DOG EVER

I'd say "cut your losses". They were taken and spending thousands of dollars on a lawsuit that will accomplish nothing is just digging a deeper hole with nothing to plant.

 

[goofy!]

Not always true.. I do know of breeders who will breed a non champion.. but it is what is behind them they are looking at. Sometimes too.. the female may need to fill out more and they get their championship after they have been bred. And it also depends I do know of breeders who do take a stud fee puppy instead of paying the stud fee.. But again..it totally depends on if the owner of the stud dog is interested in your female and interested in getting a pup form that breeding. When we bred our dog she was bred with a another dog locally and that stud dog owner had no interest in my puppies.

Yup.

Our girl has never stepped foot in a conformation ring. And unless I can hire Kacaju's family as handlers, she never will as I stink in the ring. Her pups are due March 11.

But...her litter mate is one of the rising stars of our breed and her 3/4 brother is the top dog in the breed. Her co-owner/breeder and breeder of this litter is an AKC judge and has been in the breed for over 30 years and considered the breed guru. She was able to make the judgement call that she was not only show quality, but also quality enough to breed. Show quality does not always mean they should/can be bred because there are many other factors to also consider such as health.

Breeder studied the available males very carefully. Many factors came into play in selecting the male. For example, according to DNA, my girl is a carrier of a certain recessive disease, so it was very important not to breed to another carrier. He also had to have qualities that would enhance any of her weaknesses. Other diseases had to be clear. Inbred factor could not exceed a certain number, Etc, etc.

We did not take her to the stud. She was surgically implanted with fresh chilled semen, collected the day before and fedexed. Our repro vet worked very carefully with the male's vet, monitoring our girl's progesterone levels to make sure the collection was done and arrived at our vet's at the optimal breeding time.

FWIW - all puppies are spoken for and most of them before the breeding even occurred.

Breeding is a science and takes a ton of work. I could never do it, nor would I want to. But our co-owner wanted a litter since she is the last female of this great line (lots of males.) So as long as everything lined up, health, conformation, etc, this breeding happened even though she has not been shown.

 

[PizzieDuster]

He's a Golden Retriever.

I have a Golden too. I found his breeder from this website.

Try posting there. There are many people who can help you. I posted our breeders website and the information on the sire and the female and I had an enormous amount of feed back on their background. All good. The breeder posted their papers on their website but the posters on the message board really did their homework on clearances. They do know what they are talking about. There are a lot of breeders that post there too. But as there are a lot of hot buttons on every message board - back yard breeding with no papers is one of theirs. Just a friendly warning Ask about how you can get the papers first.

You have nothing to lose to asking the same question there...see what they say. I just love the picture thread...he's making a wish - to make the patty bigger I bet http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/golden-retriever-pictures/271490-my-baby-one-year-old-today.html

http://www.goldenretrieverforum.com/#general-golden-retriever-forums