BREAKING: Walt Disney World Introduces Date-Based Variable Pricing for Genie+ Service

[set88]

So, for all of you who assert that G+ is better for guests because it levels the playing field, do you also think that ADRs should be bookable only the day of the reservation? Just curious, since ADRs still, on this leveling theory, favor those who plan in advance.

I just saw that the price of Minnie ears went up $5. You can't possibly think that WDW did this because too many people were buying Minnie ears and they wanted to make sure there were enough to go around. They did it because they could and because they're raising the prices of everything.

I don't think making dining reservations in advance is unreasonable (the previous 180 days certainly was but 60 days is more reasonable). However, I'm definitely not a fan of the fact that ADRs so heavily favor those doing long onsite stays. There's not a good reason for this to be true other than as a perk for spending more money on a Disney hotel. I would probably change it to no more than 5 days out at a time - certainly not 10. No onsite advantage at all would be more fair. So... in short, yes, I do think ADRs suffer from the same issue. I also think they are less important overall than attraction capacity.

I don't think literally anyone in this thread has said that they believe a few dollars increase on the price of Genie+ will cut demand. I definitely haven't said it. I don't think it's going to cut demand at all, especially not for people who have spent the last several months planning their end of 2022 trip (myself included).

The price is going to have to go a lot higher than it currently is to cut demand. I think Disney knows that, and as such, the current price increases to Genie+ fall into "because we can" rather than because it will help availability.

If Genie+ really struggles under the weight of holiday crowds this year, I think/hope Disney will make adjustments to it that will improve capacity. We haven't seen those adjustments yet.

 

[Jrb1979]

So, for all of you who assert that G+ is better for guests because it levels the playing field, do you also think that ADRs should be bookable only the day of the reservation? Just curious, since ADRs still, on this leveling theory, favor those who plan in advance.

I just saw that the price of Minnie ears went up $5. You can't possibly think that WDW did this because too many people were buying Minnie ears and they wanted to make sure there were enough to go around. They did it because they could and because they're raising the prices of everything.

Personally Genie+ is no better then FP+. They both suck equally. IMO they continue to make Disney a more complex vacation then needed.

To go to your point the biggest complaint that the average guest had with FP+ is the added planning involved. Most understand having to book reservations for dining, as many do that regardless of what vacation they are on. Most don't want to have a spreadsheet out for a vacation. I know I don't.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I have many, many millennial family friends who have come back from disney trips angry and annoyed that their very expensive vacation didn't run nearly as smoothly as the all inclusive experience they thought it would be.

Why in seven hells would your family and friends expect Walt Disney World to be an "all-inclusive" experience. At no point did Disney advertise or imply that it would be. That's on them for making crap up in their minds and then getting upset when the made-up crap isn't fulfilled.

 

[Jrb1979]

I don't think making dining reservations in advance is unreasonable (the previous 180 days certainly was but 60 days is more reasonable). However, I'm definitely not a fan of the fact that ADRs so heavily favor those doing long onsite stays. There's not a good reason for this to be true other than as a perk for spending more money on a Disney hotel. I would probably change it to no more than 5 days out at a time - certainly not 10. No onsite advantage at all would be more fair. So... in short, yes, I do think ADRs suffer from the same issue. I also think they are less important overall than attraction capacity.

I don't think literally anyone in this thread has said that they believe a few dollars increase on the price of Genie+ will cut demand. I definitely haven't said it. I don't think it's going to cut demand at all, especially not for people who have spent the last several months planning their end of 2022 trip (myself included).

The price is going to have to go a lot higher than it currently is to cut demand. I think Disney knows that, and as such, the current price increases to Genie+ fall into "because we can" rather than because it will help availability.

If Genie+ really struggles under the weight of holiday crowds this year, I think/hope Disney will make adjustments to it that will improve capacity. We haven't seen those adjustments yet.

It already is struggling. This is from today

10:20 update.....Epcot crowds are a 7 today, so not close to its busiest........

- ILL for Cosmic rewind were gone in 60 seconds this am so if you got Genie+ for RemRat or joined BG for Cosmic Rewind, , you missed out
- No Test track available at 10:20
- Frozen and RemRat also gone

 

[Jrb1979]

Why in seven hells would your family and friends expect Walt Disney World to be an "all-inclusive" experience. At no point did Disney advertise or imply that it would be. That's on them for making crap up in their minds and then getting upset when the made-up crap isn't fulfilled.

I would agree now. When the dining plan was available it had an all-inclusive feel.

 

[Miffy]

I don't think making dining reservations in advance is unreasonable (the previous 180 days certainly was but 60 days is more reasonable). However, I'm definitely not a fan of the fact that ADRs so heavily favor those doing long onsite stays. There's not a good reason for this to be true other than as a perk for spending more money on a Disney hotel. I would probably change it to no more than 5 days out at a time - certainly not 10. No onsite advantage at all would be more fair. So... in short, yes, I do think ADRs suffer from the same issue. I also think they are less important overall than attraction capacity.

I don't think literally anyone in this thread has said that they believe a few dollars increase on the price of Genie+ will cut demand. I definitely haven't said it. I don't think it's going to cut demand at all, especially not for people who have spent the last several months planning their end of 2022 trip (myself included).

The price is going to have to go a lot higher than it currently is to cut demand. I think Disney knows that, and as such, the current price increases to Genie+ fall into "because we can" rather than because it will help availability.

If Genie+ really struggles under the weight of holiday crowds this year, I think/hope Disney will make adjustments to it that will improve capacity. We haven't seen those adjustments yet.

@set88: You keep encouraging Disney to raise the price on something that's already a budget-breaker for many many posters on this board. Sure, everyone could just stand in line instead of paying for G+. I guess that's what we peons will have to do going forward to a time when they raise the price of G+ to a level that you find acceptable.

Back in the day, this board was the go-to place for tips on how to save money on your Disney vacation--where the discounts were, when the low seasons was, where to buy your tickets, etc. Now it seems like it's a cheering section for continued price hikes.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

To go to your point the biggest complaint that the average guest had with FP+ is the added planning involved. Most understand having to book reservations for dining, as many do that regardless of what vacation they are on. Most don't want to have a spreadsheet out for a vacation. I know I don't.

I'm sorry but this is just made up nonsense. People have been buying The Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World for over 30 years. They've been going to travel agencies and AAA to find out how to make the most of their time and money. They've been researching hotels, restaurants, and park touring strategies. Disney blogs and message boards are as old as blogs and message boards. This idea that "planning for your vacation" just started with Genie+, or FastPass+, or regular FastPass, or the 180 day dining window, is absolutely bullcrap.

People have been planning their Walt Disney World vacations since 1971, and people also plan their OTHER vacations, too. If you're going to Barcelona for a week, do you maybe do some planning ahead of time? Pick out what attractions you want to see? Maybe make some dining reservations, especially if there's a famous restaurant that's in especially high demand? Figure out how you're going to get from the airport to your hotel? Find out what time things open and close so you know when you need to wake up? Figure out if there's something that you should be in line early for if you don't want to wait forever?

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I would agree now. When the dining plan was available it had an all-inclusive feel.

A small fraction of guests were ever on the dining plan (because a small fraction of guests stay on property and are even eligible for the dining plan).

 

[set88]

@set88: You keep encouraging Disney to raise the price on something that's already a budget-breaker for many many posters on this board. Sure, everyone could just stand in line instead of paying for G+. I guess that's what we peons will have to do going forward to a time when they raise the price of G+ to a level that you find acceptable.

Back in the day, this board was the go-to place for tips on how to save money on your Disney vacation--where the discounts were, when the low seasons was, where to buy your tickets, etc. Now it seems like it's a cheering section for continued price hikes.

You are completely misunderstanding the reasoning behind saying line skipping services need to be priced higher!

Here's the basic issue: Everyone CANNOT skip the lines. Period. Not possible at a theme park. Standing in lines for popular attractions especially at peak travel times is part of a theme park experience. Short of cutting the park's capacity down by two-thirds (which would have to come with a corresponding triple cost ticket) there is NO WAY to run a theme park without some level of lines.

The problem with both FP+ and Genie+ is that it is offering line skipping to TOO MANY PEOPLE. That is problematic because it seriously increases the lines for those that DON'T use the system. If a huge percentage of people are "skipping" the line at a given attraction, not only will the "line skipping" line be longer, but the "non-line skipping" line will move MUCH slower, hurting the experience of those who didn't get the extra service. I've been saying that consistently. The fairness issue here is mostly about those that DON'T use the line skipping service and how their experience is hurt.

That's not even discussing how much better Genie+ would be if less people bought it. That is also true, but it isn't even my main point.

Having a super expensive line skipping service would mean that most people aren't going to buy it. Therefore, the standby waits are not going to be artificially inflated beyond what they would have been anyway. This is the best possible outcome for EVERYONE. It HELPS those that are going to choose not to buy the line skipping service.

Trust me when I say, you are SIGNIFICANTLY better off if Genie+ is so expensive that most people will never consider buying it. Everyone is better off. That's why I've also said consistently that the "ideal" line skipping service would be NO line skipping service.

Again... remember it is literally impossible for everyone to skip the lines. For every person that is skipping a line, those who don't have access to the line skipping are standing in line that much longer. Seriously limiting the amount of line skipping that is offered to anyone is the only way to combat this.

 

[Jrb1979]

I'm sorry but this is just made up nonsense. People have been buying The Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World for over 30 years. They've been going to travel agencies and AAA to find out how to make the most of their time and money. They've been researching hotels, restaurants, and park touring strategies. Disney blogs and message boards are as old as blogs and message boards. This idea that "planning for your vacation" just started with Genie+, or FastPass+, or regular FastPass, or the 180 day dining window, is absolutely bullcrap.

People have been planning their Walt Disney World vacations since 1971, and people also plan their OTHER vacations, too. If you're going to Barcelona for a week, do you maybe do some planning ahead of time? Pick out what attractions you want to see? Maybe make some dining reservations, especially if there's a famous restaurant that's in especially high demand? Figure out how you're going to get from the airport to your hotel? Find out what time things open and close so you know when you need to wake up? Figure out if there's something that you should be in line early for if you don't want to wait forever?

I'm not saying people don't plan their vacations. Yes people have been planning their Disney vacations since 1971. While your average guest didn't mind the usual planning that's involved with most vacations, most hated having to plan out their entire day including rides.

 

[SLThomas318]

I think the larger issue is capacity… outside of Magic Kingdom there are just not enough rides.

I don’t know if little to no people using line skipping is going to make the difference. I remember people on these boards complaining heavily about how bad lines were the summer before they released genie+. There was no line skipping option then.

 

[Miffy]

You are completely misunderstanding the reasoning behind saying line skipping services need to be priced higher!

Here's the basic issue: Everyone CANNOT skip the lines. Period. Not possible at a theme park. Standing in lines for popular attractions especially at peak travel times is part of a theme park experience. Short of cutting the park's capacity down by two-thirds (which would have to come with a corresponding triple cost ticket) there is NO WAY to run a theme park without some level of lines.

The problem with both FP+ and Genie+ is that it is offering line skipping to TOO MANY PEOPLE. That is problematic because it seriously increases the lines for those that DON'T use the system. If a huge percentage of people are "skipping" the line at a given attraction, not only will the "line skipping" line be longer, but the "non-line skipping" line will move MUCH slower, hurting the experience of those who didn't get the extra service. I've been saying that consistently. The fairness issue here is mostly about those that DON'T use the line skipping service and how their experience is hurt.

That's not even discussing how much better Genie+ would be if less people bought it. That is also true, but it isn't even my main point.

Having a super expensive line skipping service would mean that most people aren't going to buy it. Therefore, the standby waits are not going to be artificially inflated beyond what they would have been anyway. This is the best possible outcome for EVERYONE. It HELPS those that are going to choose not to buy the line skipping service.

Trust me when I say, you are SIGNIFICANTLY better off if Genie+ is so expensive that most people will never consider buying it. Everyone is better off. That's why I've also said consistently that the "ideal" line skipping service would be NO line skipping service.

Again... remember it is literally impossible for everyone to skip the lines. For every person that is skipping a line, those who don't have access to the line skipping are standing in line that much longer. Seriously limiting the amount of line skipping that is offered to anyone is the only way to combat this.

This could be accomplished by limiting the number of G+s or whatevers available. They could be FREE and the number could be limited. Raising the price is totally unnecessary unless what you're getting at is that this raising-the-price system would work well for you, since you could afford it.

 

[jimim]

Why in seven hells would your family and friends expect Walt Disney World to be an "all-inclusive" experience. At no point did Disney advertise or imply that it would be. That's on them for making crap up in their minds and then getting upset when the made-up crap isn't fulfilled.

Join a facebook disney group, the millennials are not all "plugged in" on this. I say this fondly, as a millennial myself, we are now very much in our 30s and 40s. Most of us are too busy chasing kids, paying bills, taking care of boomer parents and trying to recession proof our lives to spend anymore time reading up on what you need to do to make your kids vacation magical (present company excluded lol). I have many, many millennial family friends who have come back from disney trips angry and annoyed that their very expensive vacation didn't run nearly as smoothly as the all inclusive experience they thought it would be.

Oh boy. . . really. . . inclusive. . . really?

 

[cakebaker]

I can see that it could happen to a much much older demographic (think grandma and great-grandma), but Millineals and GenZ will have already watched several youtubers, read reddit and probably have seen those FB posts. They would know and they would research. The current generations are too plugged in not to look for this stuff.

I think you seriously over estimate how many older people go to WDW as first timers. There is a group I'm sure that tag along when the kids take the grandkids, but they don't have to know the in's and outs. The kids do.

But I think a vast majority of older people are life long visitors- me included. And I don't think the obsession with planning is age related at all. I still remember the first trip-sending off to get brochures, buying the how to books and calling over and over again- we planned that first trip for over a year. Older people aren't starting from square one, they've learned as it all came along and know you have to keep up to maximixe your experience.

There is a huge number in the under 40 crowd who've never been, want to take their kids and walk in not knowing a thing. My daughter just last week had a fellow teacher come to her room asking her about WDW. They plan on going over Thanksgiving- be there for Thanksgiving. They have no tickets, they have no reservations, she had no clue what Genie+ even was and they're leaving in a few weeks. They figured they'd just grab a room when they got there and play it by ear. My daughter btw, didn't even try. She attempted to explain just how badly that was going to turn out and once she saw the eyes glaze over she just wished her luck. This family will come back hating WDW- and this isn't the first time we've encountered younger families that have no clue.

Lack of research and the desire to learn is not limited to a certain age demographic.

 

[jimim]

People have to just start saying no. Don't be mindless sheep being led to slaughter. It's all only going to keep going up if people keep paying for it. Your kids will forgive you if you don't give them the "magical" trip they assumed they would have. They will still take care of you when you get old. Really they will.

 

[disneyseniors]

I can see that it could happen to a much much older demographic (think grandma and great-grandma), but Millineals and GenZ will have already watched several youtubers, read reddit and probably have seen those FB posts. They would know and they would research. The current generations are too plugged in not to look for this stuff.

These are the people that are going; these are the people that have the families that products like this are (theoretically) designed to help. Watch those youtube videos, and instagrams and tik toc's, and watch the videos here on the DIS. You can see who is going to the parks, who is making these videos. The content creators audience is a younger demographic. All of this is easily accessible to the current generation and they are actively researching and learning all these tips.

Maybe grandma and great-grandma aren't out there learning about the in's and out's of Disney, but this isn't their Disney anymore. Its for parents with young kids; parents that are more plugged in.

Editing to say: I recognize that there are outliers in my arguments. We are talking about wide swaths of demographics; of course I understand that there are people that miss something. I would say that number is lower than those that are doing the research.

Excuse me, but it IS our disney and always will be. Your assumption that the older generation, IE, grandma and great grandma, aren't checking the dis, utube, all over the internet, then you are delusional. Maybe you dont'know that most older people are connected and actually know how to research.
Disney is NOT just for the young people with families either. Disney is for everyone and anyone who loves disney, no matter what age. There is no exclusionism here at all.

So, that comment is totally wrong, IMO. If disney didn't have those people without kids, older generations, teenagers, etc. they would be in trouble.

I just can't tolerate people who include groups of people in something they know nothing about and make comments which are not true at all.

 

[cakebaker]

I'm not saying people don't plan their vacations. Yes people have been planning their Disney vacations since 1971. While your average guest didn't mind the usual planning that's involved with most vacations, most hated having to plan out their entire day including rides.

While I love planning, I absolutely agree. One only has to go back pre Genie+ and read a few threads about FP+. It was a major complaint that a lot of people hated pre-planning. They constantly bemoaned the inability to be spontaneous, to just see what the day brought. I will never fully understand how anyone ever thought WDW could be spontaneous and fun at the same time but.....

 

[set88]

This could be accomplished by limiting the number of G+s or whatevers available. They could be FREE and the number could be limited. Raising the price is totally unnecessary unless what you're getting at is that this raising-the-price system would work well for you, since you could afford it.

And how would you determine which of the tens of thousands of daily guests at Disney would be the ones to get the amazing super limited line skipping service if you are NOT going to use price?

Seriously. Random lottery to a very lucky few winners every day? Signing up 5-10 years in advance? Those who have spent the most at Disney over the course of their lives? Those who have been fans the longest?

Please tell me how Disney can offer Genie+ to only a very limited number of people each day in a way that is fair to everyone that doesn't use price.

I'm not rich. I'm not spending tens of thousands of dollars on my Disney vacation. I'm not advocating higher prices for line skipping because I would pay them. I absolutely would not.

I'm advocating it because it makes by far the most sense for the reality that we live in - which is that Disney is going to try to maximize profit and that it is literally impossible to run a profitable, reasonably affordable theme park that offers genuinely worthwhile rides and attractions without it having long lines.

Any line skipping service makes those lines even longer. Therefore, the ideal line skipping service is one that only a very few people use... and the only way to limit the usage of it in a way that makes sense is by making it a high price.

I don't understand why that isn't obvious.

 

[cakebaker]

Excuse me, but it IS our disney and always will be. Your assumption that the older generation, IE, grandma and great grandma, aren't checking the dis, utube, all over the internet, then you are delusional. Maybe you dont'know that most older people are connected and actually know how to research.
Disney is NOT just for the young people with families either. Disney is for everyone and anyone who loves disney, no matter what age. There is no exclusionism here at all.

So, that comment is totally wrong, IMO. If disney didn't have those people without kids, older generations, teenagers, etc. they would be in trouble.

I just can't tolerate people who include groups of people in something they know nothing about and make comments which are not true at all.

I giggled just a little at the idea that Disney is for younger people more plugged in. Ask my kids who it is that sends them all the latest breaking news from twitter, the dis, a dozen different websites. Ask them who makes the reservations, who buys the tickets, the special events, plans out each day for which park and when. They work, they're busy. You can also ask them who it is that has the ability to help them fund more trips than they could ever afford on their own. The answer to all those questions is ME. I keep them up to date, not the other way around. It is a bit insulting, but it's more funny than anything else.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Back in the day, this board was the go-to place for tips on how to save money on your Disney vacation--where the discounts were, when the low seasons was, where to buy your tickets, etc. Now it seems like it's a cheering section for continued price hikes.

Well that's because it's really hard to do that and make a Disney trip work. When I was planning my 2017 trip I could convert the Target gift cards I had to Disney gift cards and I did that, you can't do that anymore on Entertainment cards. Walmart you could after Target stopped but IDK if you still can these days. You can't just have a garage sale and make up the rest of the money unless you're looking at silly play money in which case you're not likely to be the struggling family looking for a way to realistically go to Disney. Disney raised the base price on so many experiences such that the Budget Board struggles to make up any meaningful difference. And the low seasons got smaller and smaller and smaller especially with Disney expanding out so many months to be covered by either festivals or hard ticket events. I mean you've got August-December filled with hard ticket events and Food & Wine takes up some of those months then Flower & Garden too in the spring.

That shouldn't be confused with people discussing what they think would make the experience overall enjoyable I guess you would say and for some that's looking at what other parks do and charge. What are you going to suggest to people? Go take some surveys and get your Genie+ and ILL money but know that a lot of other guests are also using the same thing too so you may still have a hard time getting in the rides you want? I mean you could if you want to.