Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

[Tasha+Scott]

However, in the end, I think there's nothing we can do about it...eventually it will be legal just like abortion is... I read the book...I know how this story ends.

That's my view on all of this too! Yes, there are a lot of sins in this world and yes, it seems they keep getting worse and have become easily accepted by society as the norm, but to me it is no big deal b/c I know that this is what the Bible has been predicting all along! It just means we are one step closer to meeting Jesus in the rapture, IMO.

On a side note, as a Christian it baffles me why anyone who professes to be saved would shun those who aren't or who live in sin. Jesus associated with prostitutes and the like trying to bring them to God. I am not better than Jesus so I have no right to judge those that live their lives in ways that I don't approve. I am a sinner just like everyone else and I try to always remember that. As far as homosexuality, I see it as no worse than any other sin. Two of my best friends in high school were gay. I do not approve of the lifestyle but would have missed out on wonderful friendships had I shunned them. Not to mention they were open to discussing my Christian beliefs with me. You just never know who might be willing to discuss Christianity or even get saved if you shun them for living a life you consider more sinnful than your own. That's my opinion anyway!

 

[JennyMominRI]

But it is part of the Christian Bible as well.

It certainly is,but it is most certainly a book about Jews,Their history and their relationship with G-d... Note that G-d made of coveneant with Abraham and his descendants..He didn't make it with everyone .G-d didn't expect all of the many non -Jews mentioned in the Torah to follow Jewish laws.He made a pact with them,that they had to follow the law..That was what separated them from the others around them..That's what the whole concept of *chosen* means.. G-d asked many different groups of people if they wanted the Torah..They said no..The Jews said yes, and became chosen,chosen for what,to follow the law... They gathered at Mt Sinai and the Torah was then given to them,not to other goups,but to the Jews,who chose to accept them..I'm not saying the book shouldn't be and isn't of value to you,just that it was written to Jews and tell the story of Jewish history in much the way that the NT tells early Christian history

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Thank you all for your opinions. Some people get upset at the question, it's nice to see such polite discussions.

And Jenny, thank you for your input.

 

[Aidensmom]

I find it interesting that most people here DO agree that sin is sin (I agree with that as well). But why is is that we get caught up on certain sins, and make bigger deals out of them? I guess the example I am thinking of is homosexuality. Some people believe this to be a sin, some have even said that certain diseases are a punishment for those who are homosexual. So if sin is sin, why is this such a biggie for some people? I am not asking this to start a debate, I am really curious, and looking for some answers. Thanks.

First, let me say I think a homosexual person and homosexual sex are two different things. God loves everyone, and a homosexual person is no more of a sinner than a heterosexual person who lies to their spouse, or doesn't tell the cashier they gave them too much change, etc. All are sinners, there are no degrees. I think the bible says ALL sex outside of marriage is wrong, so that makes hemosexual sex the same thing as unmarried heterosexuals having sex, a sin I will admit I have also been guilty of in the past.

I think the reason it is seen as a "big deal" is because it is not a sin that is universally accepted as a wrong, like stealing or lying is. Most people, regardless of their faith or lack thereof will tell you that stealing is wrong. Therefore, there is nothing political about it, and so there is no debate about theives rights, or teaching the stealing lifestyle, or anything like that. As I mentioned above, I think homosexual sex is the same as heterosexual sex outside marriage. However, on the heterosexual side it has become pretty universally accepted in this country, so you don't hear much about it. It used to be a "big deal" too. Acceptance of it, however, does not make it not a sin, you just don't hear as much about it.

 

[Aidensmom]

On a side note, as a Christian it baffles me why anyone who professes to be saved would shun those who aren't or who live in sin. Jesus associated with prostitutes and the like trying to bring them to God. I am not better than Jesus so I have no right to judge those that live their lives in ways that I don't approve.

This reminds me of something that happened a couple of weeks ago. DH and I went up to a local bar & grill for thier oyster special (well, DH did, I think they are disgusting!), but we sat at the bar, got our oysters, chicken wings, and a couple of drinks (I know some BAC's find alcohol wrong, but I personally find nothing in the Bible that tells me it is wrong in moderation). We were chatting with the bartender and I said something about church. She immediately asked me where I went, what time services were, etc. She went on to say that she hadn't been to church in weeks because the members of her church were criticizing her for working in a bar, and that if we went to a church that accepted us and we PATRONIZED a bar, that is where she wanted to worship. It really touched her to know that there really are people who will accept you no matter who you are. I really have a hard time understanding how anyone thought they were doing anyone any good by driving someone AWAY from church. And it also kind of funny how God can use anything you do as a witness, even your cravings for raw oysters and a margarita!

 

[Talking Hands]

Our sermon was about spreading the Word and church growth. It was a relatively easy sermon to interpret as he had done it previously about a year ago. It was excellent. We also had baptism and I wasn't too happen at what happened with that. I was to interpret for one deaf member who was baptized. We have several pastors that do baptism and the one yesterday was so uncooperative as he always is. He had the people being baptizes facing the men's steps rather than the women's steps making sure the deaf woman could not see the words that were spoken to her. He basically forced her to go without interpreting for her baptism. And his attitude when I tried to explain to him after was it worked, she was baptized. Yes, sure she went through the motions but she was deprived of the words and the joy of baptism. This makes me very sad.

 

[acrucifer]

First, let me say I think a homosexual person and homosexual sex are two different things. God loves everyone, and a homosexual person is no more of a sinner than a heterosexual person who lies to their spouse, or doesn't tell the cashier they gave them too much change, etc. All are sinners, there are no degrees. I think the bible says ALL sex outside of marriage is wrong, so that makes hemosexual sex the same thing as unmarried heterosexuals having sex, a sin I will admit I have also been guilty of in the past.

I think the reason it is seen as a "big deal" is because it is not a sin that is universally accepted as a wrong, like stealing or lying is. Most people, regardless of their faith or lack thereof will tell you that stealing is wrong. Therefore, there is nothing political about it, and so there is no debate about theives rights, or teaching the stealing lifestyle, or anything like that. As I mentioned above, I think homosexual sex is the same as heterosexual sex outside marriage. However, on the heterosexual side it has become pretty universally accepted in this country, so you don't hear much about it. It used to be a "big deal" too. Acceptance of it, however, does not make it not a sin, you just don't hear as much about it.

let us not miss the point, however that it is sin, and that those are do it should repent and turn toward the Lord as we all should when we have sinned. this is as big a social/political problem as it is a religious one. some churches even ordain openly Gay Priests and ministers. I do feel this is wrong, and I have asked some Gay priests a question for which I have not yet received an answer, How do you reconcile the teaching of Christ and the New Testament with being an Openly Gay Priest ? I think its an excellant question and that its impossible to answer. The NT makes it clear I believe that men should not lay with men nor women with women. although Christ ate with, ministered to, trusted and loved sinners, HE expected all of them to repent of their sinful ways and to follow him. each time he forgave sins, whether it was protecting Mary from being stoned, a curing a leper, he would say, now go and sin no more.

 

[Albertan mom]

We also had baptism and I wasn't too happen at what happened with that. I was to interpret for one deaf member who was baptized. We have several pastors that do baptism and the one yesterday was so uncooperative as he always is. He had the people being baptizes facing the men's steps rather than the women's steps making sure the deaf woman could not see the words that were spoken to her. He basically forced her to go without interpreting for her baptism. And his attitude when I tried to explain to him after was it worked, she was baptized. Yes, sure she went through the motions but she was deprived of the words and the joy of baptism. This makes me very sad.

That is too bad
I love baptisms. They always make me cry and rejoice!
Can I ask, what do you mean by mens/womens steps?

 

[live4christp1]

That is too bad
I love baptisms. They always make me cry and rejoice!
Can I ask, what do you mean by mens/womens steps?

Could be like our church, there are steps on either side that lead up to the baptismal pool. The steps to the right come up from the ladies changing area and the steps to the left come up from the mens changing area.

 

[LukenDC]

How do you reconcile the teaching of Christ and the New Testament with being an Openly Gay Priest ?

Perhaps Jesus was a homosexual. After all, he never married and he spent his time wandering the countryside with other men. It's quite possible.

 

[acrucifer]

Perhaps Jesus was a homosexual. After all, he never married and he spent his time wandering the countryside with other men. It's quite possible.

no, he directly spoke against such things, and warned about the sin of fornication. however, it is also quite possible that you are trying to provoke me. I forgive you and I pray Our Lord does also.

 

[AuntieM03]

This is for you: (Audio Adrenaline is one of my favorite groups)

The mistakes I’ve made
That caused pain
I could’ve done without
All my selfish thoughts
All my pride
The things I hide
You have forgot about

CHORUS:
They’re all behind you
They’ll never find you
They’re on the ocean floor
Your sins are forgotten
They’re on the bottom
Of the ocean floor

My misdeeds
All my greed
All the things that haunt me now
They’re not a pretty sight to see
But they’re wiped away
By a mighty, mighty wave
A mighty, mighty wave

CHORUS

(add to chorus)
Your sins are erased
And they are no more
They’re out on the ocean floor

Take them away
To return no more
Take them away
To the ocean floor
To the ocean floor
To the ocean floor

CHORUS

Your sins are erased
And they are no more
They’re out on the ocean floor
Your sins are forgotten
They’re on the bottom
Of the ocean floor
Your sins are erased
And they are no more
They’re out on the ocean floor

Thank you-that made my day I know what I'll be listening to on the way home.

 

[dcentity2000]

Perhaps Jesus was a homosexual. After all, he never married and he spent his time wandering the countryside with other men. It's quite possible.

Can't prove you wrong, I'm afraid.

The usual theory attached to Jesus (mainly by agnostics and atheists) is that He was a schizophrenic suffering from delusions and hallucinations. However, this theory runs into the brick wall of miracles performed by Him.

I'm interested in New Testament passages against homosexualism though - does anyone know of any off hand?

Ta!



Rich::

 

[WDWHound]

Can't prove you wrong, I'm afraid.

The usual theory attached to Jesus (mainly by agnostics and atheists) is that He was a schizophrenic suffering from delusions and hallucinations. However, this theory runs into the brick wall of miracles performed by Him.

I'm interested in New Testament passages against homosexualism though - does anyone know of any off hand?

Ta!



Rich::

Didn't we cover that last week? I several were posted, including one that I pm'ed to you.

 

[WDWHound]

Perhaps Jesus was a homosexual. After all, he never married and he spent his time wandering the countryside with other men. It's quite possible.

Actually, no, its not. Jesus spoke often of the rules of hetrosexual relationships, but never once spoke of homosexual ones, and beleive me, he showed no tendancy to avoid contraversy. If Homosexuals were being improperly opressed and Jesus himself were a practicioner of it, you can bet he would have spoken of it. Also, becuase homosexuality was not at all deamed acceptable in the Jewish community at the time. He would have never acquired Jewish followers had he been gay, much less 12 of them. Lastly, there was a female disciple, so this wasnt a mens club, not that it matters, since the is no evidence Jesus was sexually active in the first place.

In short, no, but thanks for playing.

 

[luvthatduke]

Hi folks, just wanted to say that this topic is usually
where the rubber meets the road on the
Christian threads here on the DIS.

There have have been too many threads to count
that have taken a turn down this road and were closed.
Let's be loving, and let's be careful,
and maybe we should remember that the thread
really was started as a place for BAC's to fellowship,
not necessarily to debate every subject that's posted - JMHO...

I for one think Aidensmom & acrucifer made
excellent points re: the Bible's stance on homosexuality.
I truly pray that more churches would equate
the sin of fornication more fairly between heteros & gays.
That's all I'll say for now, trying to take my own advice!

 

[dcentity2000]

Didn't we cover that last week? I several were posted, including one that I pm'ed to you.

Oh yeah, sorry

Head like a sieve I have [/yoda]



Rich::

 

[acrucifer]

Actually, no, its not. Jesus spoke often of the rules of hetrosexual relationships, but never once spoke of homosexual ones, and beleive me, he showed no tendancy to avoid contraversy. If Homosexuals were being improperly opressed and Jesus himself were a practicioner of it, you can bet he would have spoken of it. Also, becuase homosexuality was not at all deamed acceptable in the Jewish community at the time. He would have never acquired Jewish followers had he been gay, much less 12 of them. Lastly, there was a female disciple, so this wasnt a mens club, not that it matters, since the is no evidence Jesus was sexually active in the first place.

In short, no, but thanks for playing.

not to mention that it was a ridiculous and blasphemous accusation to make. see the book of Corinthians, Romans and Mark. There are references by the Apostles about fornication including homosexual relationships. and when Jesus spoke of fornication, he was talking about all sex outside of marriage.

 

[acrucifer]

Hi folks, just wanted to say that this topic is usually
where the rubber meets the road on the
Christian threads here on the DIS.

There have have been too many threads to count
that have taken a turn down this road and were closed.
Let's be loving, and let's be careful,
and maybe we should remember that the thread
really was started as a place for BAC's to fellowship,
not necessarily to debate every subject that's posted - JMHO...

I for one think Aidensmom & acrucifer made
excellent points re: the Bible's stance on homosexuality.
I truly pray that more churches would equate
the sin of fornication more fairly between heteros & gays.
That's all I'll say for now, trying to take my own advice!

Yeah, I definitely agree with this. We BAC understood fornication is a sin and that homosexuality is also. I dont think it needs to be debated (yikes, theres that word again). let get on with ministering and witnessing, this topic is done.

 

[WDWHound]

not to mention that it was a ridiculous and blasphemous accusation to make. see the book of Corinthians, Romans and Mark. There are references by the Apostles about fornication including homosexual relationships. and when Jesus spoke of fornication, he was talking about all sex outside of marriage.

Good point about fornication (funny, you don't hear that phrase very often (LOL)). There was no gay marriage in that time, therefore gay sex had to be outside marriage and Jesus was VERY clear regarding what he thought of that.

But, as you said, the whole idea was almost certainly bait, so we've probably already given it more response thatn it deserved.