Born Again Christians Thread-No Bashing please

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Sorry if you took offense at my post Cardaway but I have not been to the thread that was being discussed here. Just posted the reason many people I have come into direct contact with give for not attending church, (as it had been brought up here) relatives included. Wasn't trying to speak for those posting on the other thread as I have no idea who might be posting there and what they might be saying.

Haven't had lots of time to read or post here the last week or so as we have had so many other issues to deal with.

Edited to add: I was also unaware that that particular thread was closed as I don't follow what is going on with threads I don't post on.
 
cardaway said:
No, the post that promted mine was the one by Cristy which was made less than an hour ago.

This is just my opinion. I have no intention of trying to debate the issue here if the discussion continues.
I took it as her just commenting to her posts on THIS thread. I don't believe she even posted on the other thread (I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing her). :)
 
I would agree that there are probably many times that some very bad things happen to people in church and I also agree that many times those things aren't addressed by the leadership of the church, etc. and sometimes people just choose to look the other way. (I can think of one such instance at a very big church here locally in our area that such a thing happened). The Bible is very clear on church discipline and what should be done. If you (Cardaway) or someone you are close to was hurt by someone who was in a position of trust etc., I am sincerely sorry for you and can understand why that person wouldn't want to be associated with that again.
 
live4christp1 said:
I would agree that there are probably many times that some very bad things happen to people in church and I also agree that many times those things aren't addressed by the leadership of the church, etc. and sometimes people just choose to look the other way. (I can think of one such instance at a very big church here locally in our area that such a thing happened). The Bible is very clear on church discipline and what should be done. If you (Cardaway) or someone you are close to was hurt by someone who was in a position of trust etc., I am sincerely sorry for you and can understand why that person wouldn't want to be associated with that again.

Sounds like you understand why people would be upset when others use terms like excuses in this context. Pretty harsh term which usually means the reason is invalid.
 

Miss Jasmine said:
I took it as her just commenting to her posts on THIS thread. I don't believe she even posted on the other thread (I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing her). :)

Thanks, good point.

Sorry Cristy. Didn't mean to imply you personally did anything wrong. Just trying to express my opinion on the side discussion that came here. I see now where you say you were not aware of it all.
 
When someone says to me "I don't go to church because there are to many hypocrites there" IMO that is an excuse and I don't think it is harsh. When DH and I didn't go to church many years ago, an old Sunday school teacher asked us to come and MY EXCUSE was Sunday was my only day off, only day to sleep in, etc. It was an excuse, nothing more, nothing less. I don't see anything harsh about calling it that.

As people, we come into contact with hyprocrites every single day, in every area and aspect of our life......to avoid one particular area with the reason being "hypocrites" is an excuse, if that were the true reason then we would avoid most of or daily activities in life.

I had an excuse back then, while the real reason was that I knew if I went, I would have to face the fact with some of the things I was doing in my life that weren't right (and I knew they weren't right) and I wasn't ready to do that, so I had an excuse.
 
cardaway said:
Thanks, good point.

Sorry Cristy. Didn't mean to imply you personally did anything wrong. Just trying to express my opinion on the side discussion that came here. I see now where you say you were not aware of it all.

:goodvibes It's okay, sometimes I just pop in and start posting and don't realize how it reads if your looking at all the posts as a whole. I'm sure I have misread or misunderstand things just as many times as someone might see my posts different than I intended it to be.
 
live4christp1 said:
When someone says to me "I don't go to church because there are to many hypocrites there" IMO that is an excuse and I don't think it is harsh. When DH and I didn't go to church many years ago, an old Sunday school teacher asked us to come and MY EXCUSE was Sunday was my only day off, only day to sleep in, etc. It was an excuse, nothing more, nothing less. I don't see anything harsh about calling it that.

As people, we come into contact with hyprocrites every single day, in every area and aspect of our life......to avoid one particular area with the reason being "hypocrites" is an excuse, if that were the true reason then we would avoid most of or daily activities in life.

I had an excuse back then, while the real reason was that I knew if I went, I would have to face the fact with some of the things I was doing in my life that weren't right (and I knew they weren't right) and I wasn't ready to do that, so I had an excuse.

You may very well be right, but I honestly think the "hypocrisy" answer is the tip of the iceburg, that there is a much deeper and very personal reason why they choose not to go. That initial reason may be knee jerk to avoid any invasive questions or indepth conversation. Like a Christian's relationship with God, any person's choice in manner of worship, or not for that matter, is a very private one.

Some simply choose not to go because it's simply not for them. There is no hidden meaning, no deeper rationale. They don't want to, 'nuff said.

Others, however, have been hurt by the church, whether by a minister or priest, by members of the congregation, or by the policies themselves. That hurt and pain translates to anger.

And yet others, whether hurt by the church, confused by the hypocrisy, or out of fear of not belonging, do indeed want to go, very badly sometimes, but given their past experiences, they choose not to attend for the moment. But one day, when they are comfortable, they will come back. And during this time of indecision, they do pray and do have their relationship with God. It's not for anyone else to judge or decide what is right for them. It's only up to them what they choose to do.

But whatever the case may be, whatever excuse or rationale, whatever anyone decides is best in terms of what faith one practices or how frequent one attends services, there's no need to judge another or make decisions on another by using one's own belief system as the barometer. That's just not right and very un-Christian like.

Thankfully, most of you understand and recognize this. That's why I personally like to lurk on this thread and occasionally stick my head in to say hello.
 
live4christp1 said:
I had an excuse back then, while the real reason was that I knew if I went, I would have to face the fact with some of the things I was doing in my life that weren't right (and I knew they weren't right) and I wasn't ready to do that, so I had an excuse.

Fine to call you own reasons excuses. IMHO is it's rude to do the same to others in this context. IMHO it's just another example of the Christian side thinking their words are NOT offensive while claiming things the other side says IS offensive.

And IMHO, the large percentage of hypocrites in most churches is the #1 valid reason for giving up and finding another way. Been there, done that.

Big agree to disagree and time to move on, right?
 
Hi Rick! Glad you are lurking and occasionally posting on this thread. :goodvibes I do the same.
 
cardaway said:
Fine to call you own reasons excuses. IMHO is it's rude to do the same to others in this context. IMHO it's just another example of the Christian side thinking their words are NOT offensive while claiming things the other side says IS offensive.

And IMHO, the large percentage of hypocrites in most churches is the #1 valid reason for giving up and finding another way. Been there, done that.

Big agree to disagree and time to move on, right?

You must be really searching because you keep being led to Christian threads. I pray that God will soften your heart and take away some of the pain and bitterness that is evident in your posts.

Are you a born again Christian? Ask yourself, "what drew me to this thread?"

And why did you post on a born again Christian thread that asked for no bashing?

I really hope that God grants you the peace that you are evidently searching for. I will pray for you.
 
I lurk on this thread and usually enjoy it. Some of what passed back and forth here today disturbed me, though, and I thought I would post briefly (well, maybe longhandedly).

I watched a show about some kids doing a holocaust memorial yesterday, it was called "Paper Clips" or something like that. The gist of the story was that we ALL have predjudices, and if they are allowed to run free, a great disaster happens. To believe that you are completely unbiased and enlightened is the first step towards pride and downfall. That is true for both the believer and the unbeliever.

Each of us has his or her own struggles to face. Most of us on this post have been persuaded, either because of the testimony of another or the Word or an understanding of our own depravity, that there is only one way to God, and that is through faith in His Son, Jesus. I myself came to belive through honest seeking and a really tough look at my own inner self. You can read my testimony earlier in this thread.

So what does someone who honestly believes, and has good evidence for that belief, treat a non-believer? The correct answer to that question is with love and an attempt at understanding, and with acceptance of the person, but NOT with an acceptance of bad behavior. That is the biblical way.

A good portion of my family is unbelievers....but you know what? I am only marginally less messed up than any of them. Compared to God, I am just as sinful and dirty as they are if I don't have Jesus. He is infinitely good.

Anyway, just that thought.....people will hurt you. It is the way of the world. God will accept and love you. THAT is the way of the cross.
 
2gether- thank you for that inspirational post. It's good to be reminded that none of us are without sin, and without God's grace and love, we are nothing. May we all as Christians strive to be humble as we serve Him, as well as when we witness for Him.
 
Hey everybody! :wave2:
I haven't been online for the past week
(except off & on - my system has rebelled against every
firewall I've installed since upgrading to DSL),
but after catching up on this thread I'll just say
that the "unchurch" thread is not really new,
a similar one was up & running last year if I remember.
It was painful then, and sounds painful now as well.
So many have been hurt, and really need prayer.

I think one of the most important things someone can
do for anyone who isn't attending church but used to,
is to keep in touch, share any news (not gossip)
about members that may be interesting (births, deaths, jobs, etc),
and drop off or mail the tape or CD of the message each week,
or at least occasionally.
We never know how an act of kindness, with no condemnation,
will be received.
 
cardaway said:
If you're going to continue the discussion from the locked thread (on your implied BAC only thread) it would be nice if you could respect the people who posted and not throw around the word excuse. In fact, to be respectful to the other side that posted in that thread, you may not want to discuss the posts there at all unless you're going to change the intent of this thread.

Thanks, and have a nice day. :flower:

We appreciate your moderation of this thread and loving manner in which you presented it.

thank you
 
hokiefan33 said:
Umm, yes, I know you do...makes me wonder which way you lean as well.

If they reveal their beliefs then they open themselves to the same standards they have for Christians. Cant have that. If they remain claiming some vague level of spirituality and belief in God then they can sit back and continue to tell us about the evils of the Christians.

They have been hurt and are hurting and now manifest that in their bitterness and sarcasm.

I feel sorry for them. No joy.
 
2gether said:
I lurk on this thread and usually enjoy it. Some of what passed back and forth here today disturbed me, though, and I thought I would post briefly (well, maybe longhandedly).

To believe that you are completely unbiased and enlightened is the first step towards pride and downfall. That is true for both the believer and the unbeliever.

Each of us has his or her own struggles to face.

So what does someone who honestly believes, and has good evidence for that belief, treat a non-believer? The correct answer to that question is with love and an attempt at understanding, and with acceptance of the person, but NOT with an acceptance of bad behavior. That is the biblical way.

A good portion of my family is unbelievers....but you know what? I am only marginally less messed up than any of them. Compared to God, I am just as sinful and dirty as they are if I don't have Jesus. He is infinitely good.

Anyway, just that thought.....people will hurt you. It is the way of the world. God will accept and love you. THAT is the way of the cross.
(quoted for highlights, not entire OP)

2gether, thank you for the post. I too was disturbed with some of the posts here yesterday. Thank you for bringing it all back into perspective.
We've had a rough couple of weeks around here...
My mother in law's cancer is no longer in remission. They'll be doing another CAT scan in a few weeks to see how fast it's growing. Doc doesn't think it's growing that fast because of her blood levels, but none the less, it's growing....
My uncle went to the hospital to have a tumor removed and has quite a bit of complications. the first was a blood clot that made it's way down to his intestines and had everything blocked up. And now he has an infections but they don't know where it is...he's been in ICU for over a week...
And a good friend of mine is now struggling with cancer again. She is on radiation every day and they also put her on chemo once a week. They have her on steriods to help her breathe. She is in a lot of pain, so they've also given her pain killers. She's also on sleeping pills...
Needless to say, I'm a "little on the edge" lately. I know that it isn't fair to the rest of my family that I have been this way...and so I pray and just put it all into God's hands...
 
2gether said:
I watched a show about some kids doing a holocaust memorial yesterday, it was called "Paper Clips" or something like that. The gist of the story was that we ALL have predjudices, and if they are allowed to run free, a great disaster happens. To believe that you are completely unbiased and enlightened is the first step towards pride and downfall. That is true for both the believer and the unbeliever.


Just wonderinf if the program you mentioned was about a rail car that students had filled with paper clips? If yes, that is right near where I live at Whitwell High School. Would like to see it, do you remember what channel it was on?
 
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