Bonnet Creek Resort--timeshare presentation--Updated 6/20/09

[GetGlowing]

Timeshare salespeople are bottom-sucking scum.


And that's the good ones.


Don't do it.

 

[inkkognito]

The trick is to bring printouts of ridiculously low listings from the secondary market and to loudly discuss them while they are trying to hook you in. They'll cut you loose fast because they can't touch those prices and won't want the other suckers sitting around you to hear that kind of information.

 

[Brian Noble]

Some will, but not Wyndham. They'll tell you all kinds of truths, half-truths, and outright untruths about the difference between developer and resale. They do this because, not infrequently, it works. I've seen people who know the resale market exists get bamboozled by this stuff.

(Bottom line: some perks and program features do only accrue to developer purchasers, true, but none of them are worth anywhere near the extra money you'd have to pay to get them.)

 

[Iceman10]

We are doing one over at the Hilton Grand vacations Club in Oct (Simply for the free stay - I already own DVC) How lovely will that experience be? Anyone been over there?

 

[Princess Disney Mom]

My Uncle went to the Hilton Grand Vacation Club one and he survived. But keep in mind he is a widower and older. He drove them crazy with the accounting and how a time share is not a good investment. They got rid of him. He can say "no".

 

[sammyo]

updated

 

[GetGlowing]

Anyway---I convinced my wife to do the timeshare presentation for a $75 debit card. Speaking to the rep. on the phone I asked how long it would take and they said around an hour. We checked in at 11:15 and were greeted by our salesperson within a few minutes of that time. Right off I told him we needed to be finished by 12:30 and that we were not going to buy anything. He tried to impress me with some numbers and facts, but being a good Diser I threw a lot back at him. At 11:30 we entered a room and another rep. did a 50 minute presentation, which took us up to 12:20. It was obvious that there was at least one sales plant in the room and maybe two---sort of reminded me of a 30 minute infommercial with a paid "audience". So we exit the room and the rep. leads us down a hall and I told him he had 10 minutes---he rather rudely said it would take long than that, I told him it wouldn't, he again said it would and kept walking straight down the hall---at that point I told him I was going to the desk. I went to the desk, picked up my $75 card and left. Maybe it was wrong of me to take his time, but I told him upfront that we were not buying and he could cut us loose at any time. So that was my experience.

Beautiful!! The info about the paid sales plants is good to know.

 

[Purseval]

We go to sales presentations all the time, 3 or 4 a year sometimes more if we aren't in a rush. We are a couple, no children traveling with us and 7 to 10 days to kill so we can afford the time. Bonnet Creek pays according to where you sign up, our last time we signed up at IOA and got $100 Universal dollars. You can typically expect funny money, real cash, 1-day 1-park WDW tickets, Dinner theatre tickets, etc. You can also negotiate. If they are offering Universal dollars and you want to go to the Magic Kingdom odds are they will substitute that gift if you ask. Just keep in mind both points of view. You are dealing with slimeball salesmen who will say or do anything to get a sale while they are dealing with abusive cheapskates who are wasting their time just to get some free stuff. It goes both ways. If you keep that in mind you can just let them do their thing, put in your time, take the money and go have a nice day.

Think of it like a job. If they are offering you $100 for 4 hours (remember you have to get there and back, eat, take the tour and listen to the hard sell) of your time you have to decide if it's worth $25/hour to go or if you'd rather pay yourself $25/hour to sleep in, go for a swim, shop, whatever. If it's worth it then go.

For people actually interested in buying or learning about Bonnet Creek and other Wyndham resorts there is a timeshare users group:

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=47

Let's put it this way, they don't spend a lot of time discussing how happy they are with the great deal they got when they bought.

 

[Janet Hill]

Just keep in mind both points of view. You are dealing with slimeball salesmen who will say or do anything to get a sale while they are dealing with abusive cheapskates who are wasting their time just to get some free stuff. It goes both ways. If you keep that in mind you can just let them do their thing, put in your time, take the money and go have a nice day.

Totally agree. A lot of us who go to these presentations looking for freebies think we are on a higher moral plane than the so called slimeball sales people. I too go when I have the time and I just listen to their spiel say no thanks and go on my way.

Though I do admit that if things start dragging on too long, we use the excuse that my husband forgot his insulin and we really need to go.

 

[inkkognito]

I don't feel at all badly for timeshare salesmen who wind up saddled with people who have no intention of buying. The salesmen have no one to blame but their employers. As long as they have recruiters who pay off people to sit through presentations, that's who they're going to wind up with. Not that I have anything against timeshare salesmen in general...I have a good friends whose husband sells for an Orlando timeshare company, and he is one of the nicest, most ethical people you'd ever want to meet. Yeah, I know that sounds impossible, but he really is. It's just a business with a lousy model, sort of like car sales...there are good, honest car salesmen too but overall the whole thing is a mess.

 

[Purseval]

I don't feel at all badly for timeshare salesmen who wind up saddled with people who have no intention of buying.

Timeshare salesmen don't feel badly about it either, they know it comes with the territory. As much as their tactics get criticized they obviously work because the business model hasn't changed in decades and people are still lining up to get their free gifts.

What gets me more is all the people who complain about the timeshare presentations and the tactics of the salesmen when they go in knowing full well what to expect, knowing they are only in it for the gifts and yet still being offended when the salesmen do exactly what they expected them to do in the first place

 

[Brian Noble]

Let's put it this way, they don't spend a lot of time discussing how happy they are with the great deal they got when they bought.

I do, but I bought resale. That part is really important.

I'm sitting in a 2BR unit at Wyndham Smoky Mountains as I type. The entire week, including all fees, 7% lost opportunity/amortization on the purchase price, etc. cost me a bit less than $500. I'm spending a week at Bonnet Creek in July for which I'm paying less than $375.

I *love* my Wyndham ownership. Love it.

 

[ntsammy5]

Just out of curiosity, do those costs include the annual maint fees?

 

[dtauer]

When we booked through Orbitz for our '06 trip, at the bottom of the agreement was a box to check if you wanted to attend the Bonnet Creek presentation.

Although, I rarely waste my time on these, for $150 I decided to spend the 90 minutes.

Our experience went well as I didn't disagree with anything they said. I loved the tour and let them know they were very nice units. I gave them nothing to argue with me about.

Once they gave me the pricing, I told them how much I pay for my DVC membership. I asked if they had constant buses to the parks, as we visit the parks a lot. I asked them if I could charge to my room, have packages sent back to the room, or if they had a free shuttle from the airport when I arrived.

Then I explained how these things are VERY important to me to have a stress free vacation and any difference in price was worth it to me for these services. Also, the price wasn't much less than the DVC price which made it even easier. I told them I would rather just add on more points rather than buy another timeshare.

I didn't get any of the hard sell, them making me feel dumb or guilty, just used my logic as to why it didn't make sense based on our DVC ownership. Worked well for me, and for $150, if that was still available, I would do it again.

 

[A Mickeyfan]

Just out of curiosity, do those costs include the annual maint fees?

I am wondering the same. I thought their fees were on the high side. There is a Wyndham owners board I have been going on & many there are unhappy with some of the new practice's Wyndham has started. I had been thinking of purchasing a resale for Bonnet Creek.

 

[Janet Hill]

I own a lot of Wyndham points (> 1,000,000) and yes Wyndham is making a lot of changes I don't like, but that doen't mean that I don't enjoy the product. I do rent some points out each year, but not many, becuase my entire family travels on these points at christmas time and this requires 3 units.

As with any product you have to do your homework and learn how to effectively use it.

I also own a little DVC, but not much because it is just too expensive. Yes DVC does retain it's resale value but resale value only matters when you want to sell. It would take me probably 5,000 DVC points to book as much travel as much as I do with my Wyndham points and I cannot even imagine what this would cost.

 

[celerystalker]

I own with Wyndham. They spoiled me by making me VIP for three years - now those three years are up.
I kept saying no over and over again at the last presentation I went to in May and finally they came in and offered me one time use points for a fee.
Argh.
I took it.

The cost per night is really really good for the particular deal they gave me. and they also said I could purchase more points at the rate they signed.
blah.
Maybe if I win the lottery in the next 18 months, I'll buy more points.

All that being said, I like the company except for the Orlando salesmen. All the other salesmen I've met have been nice and genuine - it's just up to me to say no.
I complained about the rudeness of the Orlando set this time. ANd complained about the million phone calls I get.
but the properties are all great and the people other than those mentioned are great. I'm going back to Fairfield glade (one of the first properties) in two weeks!
And I will be spending some of those points I bought at Bonnet Creek again come next year.

 

[05MM08MM]

My mom called me last night to say that she had received a piece of mail for me under my maiden name about travel offers. I told her just shred that crap, it's all bogus, and she said not always, that she has gotten free stays at lots of places by just taking the hour or so to listen to their timeshare BS. Guess it depends on the company.

 

[Purseval]

I am wondering the same. I thought their fees were on the high side. There is a Wyndham owners board I have been going on & many there are unhappy with some of the new practice's Wyndham has started. I had been thinking of purchasing a resale for Bonnet Creek.

Any timeshare purchase in Orlando is going to cost you $500 to $1000 or more in fees and taxes before you ever set foot in the door, even if you don't use it. That's just a general rule of thumb, Bonnet Creek falls somewhere between the 2 IIRC.

 

[Brian Noble]

Just out of curiosity, do those costs include the annual maint fees?

Yes---it includes everything.

Wyndham points deeds are denominated in thousands. A "typical" deed might have annual maintenance fees and taxes of about $5/K. My deed happens to be much lower---it is a bit under $3.55/K. This is not the best per-K figure in the system, but it is close.

My cost basis for purchase (including closing and transfer) was about $14.30/K. This is relatively high by today's standards. I use 7% for opportunity cost and amortization, so that contributes $1/K to my "full cost" figure, for $4.55/K in total costs. For comparison purposes, a purchase from the developer would cost you anywhere from $125/K to $175/K, depending on your negotiation skills, whether you have an equity swap possible, etc.

A typical resort starts at about 154K points for a 2BR in high season for a week. Wyndham Smoky Mountains is 166K. Bonnet Creek is 224K. So, if I had booked them using the regular, internal reservations system, my costs would be $755.30 and $1019.20, respectively. These aren't horrible prices for 2BR condos in either of these locations in the current rental market. Not the best you can do for these properties, but acceptable.

But, it is possible to get an effective discount on Wyndham weeks by depositing smaller units or lesser seasons (or both) in RCI and then trading them for larger units in high seasons, taking advantage of an internal preference for Wyndham owners.

I booked the prime-season 2BR Smoky Mountains unit that I'm sitting in right now by depositing a red studio, worth 70K points, and then paying an exchange fee. The studio's cost to me is about $320. The exchange fee is $164. The total cost: about $485, in round numbers. The Bonnet Creek 2BR week in July (also Prime season) was booked with a white studio worth only 42K. Cost of the studio: about $192. With the exchange fee, $356.

This doesn't always work out---Wyndham almost never deposits anything that the owners themselves are likely to book up quickly. So, for some things (Myrtle Beach or Panhandle summer, prime ski weeks, holiday weeks, etc.) you have to book them internally at full point value if you want them. But, when it works, it can really work.

The other potential pitfall is that you can stretch your points too far, and have some left over. I rented most of my excess 2009 points at a nice profit, and rolled a few forward to 2010/2011. It looks like I may have a significant batch of extra points in 2010, but I'll roll those forward to 2011/2012 and maybe use them for a summer beach week in 2011. That will be more expensive than doing an external exchange, but still a good deal compared to an oceanfront rental.