Blue Card - White Card - FL Resident ???

[ziravan]

Zirvan the word Member as used in that statement is being used as a definition in that statement only- for legal simplicity and so the statement makes sense. It even says that.It doesn't mean that in a general sense resale buyers are not members!

For example, my recent resale welcome letter referred to me as being a member and i log on with my member ID.

Just look at the exclusion clause DVD attach to all membership extras-

"Members who do not purchase an ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Development Inc. will not have access to Membership Extras."

Note the first word.

As the thread denotes, I have a real membership card.

I'm not approving of the distinction. Far from it. I've been a very vocal critic of it:

http://www.laughingplace.com/w/news...s-buys-execs-name-web-domain-open-letter/amp/

But to dismiss DVC's admission that they no longer consider resale buyers to be members as legal mumbo jumbo misses their clear intent.

It's not the direct buyers lounge at EPCOT; it's the member's lounge. Only members allowed.

 

[Goofy G]

Back to original question...if I was a FL resident I would want the blue card. Many of the extra events are not easily arranged for DVCers who live elsewhere. But if you can fold in a special night into a day off???

 

[ziravan]

Back to original question...if I was a FL resident I would want the blue card. Many of the extra events are not easily arranged for DVCers who live elsewhere. But if you can fold in a special night into a day off???

If I were a FL resident, I'd buy a 25 pt contract. I would anyway but especially if I lived in Florida.

If I lived in FL, I'd prob do the 25 pointer at a different resort. Banking and borrowing a 25 point contract into a long weekend at a different resort could be neat.

 

[ScubaCat]

It's not the direct buyers lounge at EPCOT; it's the member's lounge. Only members allowed.

That's simply shorthand for "certain members we prefer lounge"

Resale buyers still get a member ID number, still call member services, etc. I don't think the word means much of anything other than marketing. Legally it's meaningless. (although it does invoke an unfortunate Beavis & Butthead quote I will never get out of my head as long as I live. Hah)

 

[Wakey]

I have a membership number. I have a member's logon. I am a member of DVC. Even DVD says members who do not purchase directly from DVD- members who do not purchase directly (again for emphasis)- do not get the additional perks. The deed says I am a member. The declaration of condominium says I am a member. If I want my digital white card I click on the link on the DVC website (after logging in as a member) which says ' member identification'. The letter received when I bought my recent resale contract called me a member. DVC even sent me 2 magnets with it to put on my car saying 'Disney Vacation Club Member'. To say a resale buyer is not a member is plain ridiculous and in fact misinformation which can be damaging to anyone who comes on here looking at advice as to whether to buy resale or not. To suggest a resale buyer is not a member because they cannot get access to a lounge DVD decided to moniker 'Member''s Lounge' is also misinformation. DVD are not contractually bound to supply this lounge, it's just marketing spend, it isn't supplied by DVC and not in any contracts, deeds or agreements. DVD get everyone to sign a disclaimer when buying direct saying they are not buying based on perks which are non contractual and can be taken away at any time. DVD could call it's marketing lounge anything it wants, including 'Astronauts Lounge' it would not make those going in an astronaut and everyone else not an astronaut. Sorry rant over, but saying resale buyers are not members is so wrong and misinformation.

 

[ziravan]

I have a membership number. I have a member's logon. I am a member of DVC. Even DVD says members who do not purchase directly from DVD- members who do not purchase directly (again for emphasis)- do not get the additional perks. The deed says I am a member. The declaration of condominium says I am a member. If I want my digital white card I click on the link on the DVC website (after logging in as a member) which says ' member identification'. The letter received when I bought my recent resale contract called me a member. DVC even sent me 2 magnets with it to put on my car saying 'Disney Vacation Club Member'. To say a resale buyer is not a member is plain ridiculous and in fact misinformation which can be damaging to anyone who comes on here looking at advice as to whether to buy resale or not. To suggest a resale buyer is not a member because they cannot get access to a lounge DVD decided to moniker 'Member''s Lounge' is also misinformation. DVD are not contractually bound to supply this lounge, it's just marketing spend, it isn't supplied by DVC and not in any contracts, deeds or agreements. DVD get everyone to sign a disclaimer when buying direct saying they are not buying based on perks which are non contractual and can be taken away at any time. DVD could call it's marketing lounge anything it wants, including 'Astronauts Lounge' it would not make those going in an astronaut and everyone else not an astronaut. Sorry rant over, but saying resale buyers are not members is so wrong and misinformation.

Don't take this the wrong way, but the very fact that you're so invested in the fact that YOU are a member, too, reinforces exactly what DVC is trying to do here. "Member" is semantics and DVC will use that to play with your emotional investment so long as it works.

There's a reason that they're being coy with the word. In reality, it's not really a club, and none of us are "members". It's a timeshare real estate interest and you're an owner. Everything else, including the definition of "member", is a sales PR technique.

Since the last set of restrictions, resale demand has exploded. That's economy driven, but still. It makes me concerned that DVC will feel liberated in going too far with the next set of restrictions.

 

[ziravan]

I'm a RN in the US. In 1965, in order to foster a movement to Bach degrees for nurses, the American Nurses Association deemed Assoc degree RNs to be "Technical Nurses" and Bach degree RNs to be "Professional Nurses".

The phraseology never caught on. An RN is an RN.

But. What it DID do was create a backlash that has prevented the ANA from accomplishing its original goal even a half century later.

There's no call to insult someone to get what you want, and it doesn't usually work. For US nursing, it created a half century backlash.

This is more or less my same point with DVC here. Member. Purchaser. It's petty. And it's completely unnecessary for DVC to be successfull.

 

[Wakey]

Don't take this the wrong way, but the very fact that you're so invested in the fact that YOU are a member, too, reinforces exactly what DVC is trying to do here. "Member" is semantics and DVC will use that to play with your emotional investment so long as it works.

There's a reason that they're being coy with the word. In reality, it's not really a club, and none of us are "members". It's a timeshare real estate interest and you're an owner. Everything else, including the definition of "member", is a sales PR technique.

Since the last set of restrictions, resale demand has exploded. That's economy driven, but still. It makes me concerned that DVC will feel liberated in going too far with the next set of restrictions.

Ziravan - I agree with you there 100%. Aside from the fact that I am not invested in being a member, as I understand how it works, but others who come on here looking for advice may be- or think it is important. Cheers.

Edit- also agree resale market has exploded. I think what DVD has done is inadvertently advertise the resale market and people have also come on boards like this, Facebook pages, etc to ask about perks- what does all this mean? They then get answers and it encourages them to look on the resale sites. It has backfired spectacularly as far as I can see.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Ultimately, all both direct and resale owners are entitled to is booking DVC reservations at their home resort ahead of non-home resorts. No perks, no discounts, nothing. All those could disappear overnight (like the free valet parking did a few years ago) with the swish of Ken Potrock's pen (why do I keep picturing Fred Flintstone's boss when I hear or read Ken Potrock).

 

[Wakey]

Ultimately, all both direct and resale owners are entitled to is booking DVC reservations at their home resort ahead of non-home resorts. No perks, no discounts, nothing. All those could disappear overnight (like the free valet parking did a few years ago) with the swish of Ken Potrock's pen (why do I keep picturing Fred Flintstone's boss when I hear or read Ken Potrock).

That has given me the biggest laugh of any disboard post yet!

 

[mustinjourney]

one good side effect of having benefits for direct purchasers is that if DVD wants to continue selling direct points, they're going to have to keep providing benefits that people actually care about. As such, there's a good chance that the AP/food/merchandise discounts continue. Not to mention getting more DVC owners with APs encourages us to blow through more points and spend more time in the resorts/parks.

 

[Dean]

Zirvan the word Member as used in that statement is being used as a definition in that statement only- for legal simplicity and so the statement makes sense. It even says that.It doesn't mean that in a general sense resale buyers are not members!

For example, my recent resale welcome letter referred to me as being a member and i log on with my member ID.

Just look at the exclusion clause DVD attach to all membership extras-

"Members who do not purchase an ownership interest directly from Disney Vacation Development Inc. will not have access to Membership Extras."

Note the first word.

Does it really matter what they're called? There is a difference between the 2 groups and that difference is likely to grow over time. Absent a VIP system, the 2 have the same rights at the resort they own and currently at other club resorts. That's where the similarity ends. IMO DVD is very generous when they allow members to be qualified for such a small purchase as low as 25 points. Not that it's an insignificant $$$ amount but it could easily have been a lot worse and likely will be more costly in the future.

If I were a FL resident, I'd buy a 25 pt contract. I would anyway but especially if I lived in Florida.

If I lived in FL, I'd prob do the 25 pointer at a different resort. Banking and borrowing a 25 point contract into a long weekend at a different resort could be neat.

As I've said a number of times, in ALMOST every case, it's best to plan to be a qualified member by planning the resale and retail add on as a unit doing the resale first. They'll likely raise it at some point but I doubt it'll be anything over 50 other than if they did do a VIP program it might be the ONLY qualified points counted toward it.

I'm a RN in the US. In 1965, in order to foster a movement to Bach degrees for nurses, the American Nurses Association deemed Assoc degree RNs to be "Technical Nurses" and Bach degree RNs to be "Professional Nurses".

The phraseology never caught on. An RN is an RN.

But. What it DID do was create a backlash that has prevented the ANA from accomplishing its original goal even a half century later.

There's no call to insult someone to get what you want, and it doesn't usually work. For US nursing, it created a half century backlash.

This is more or less my same point with DVC here. Member. Purchaser. It's petty. And it's completely unnecessary for DVC to be successfull.

In name that's true but it's certainly not true in the hospital, at least not with those hospitals looking a magnet status. Currently LPN's work as tech's and 2 yr RN's function like LPN's once did where they are not allowed to be charge or to dispense meds. In an office and other settings there's often little distinction between the 2.

That has given me the biggest laugh of any disboard post yet!

And it's true, things WILL change and usually not for the better at least for the non qualified resale buyer.

 

[Wakey]

But the only thing we all bought is partial interest in a unit, represented by points, which by appertuance gives us all membership of a club. Membership of a club is specifically set out in the declaration of condominium. The club is governed by rules, the use of the property (including home resort booking advantage) is governed by the deed, declaration of condominium and exhibits. We all have those rights, we are all members. The only way it has got 'worse' for non direct purchasers is that the developer has taken away non contractual freebies it gives away for marketing purposes on a whim. Something it is entirely entitled to do. This doesn't mean it will deteriorate for resale buyers, DVD are frankly hamstrung by the deeds, and it has never even hinted it would act illegally. We all got what we paid for, bought and contractually agreed, and we are certainly all members of a club. To say we aren't members of the club, or doesn't matter that we are not called members, when we are talking about Disney Vacation Club, is slightly ridiculous!
As to whether DVD are generous to allow members to be 'qualified' (not sure where that terminology comes from but I'll stick with it), yes you could be correct Dean 25 points may be low for DVD to agree to throw non contractual freebies at you. Then again, I suspect they have done the costs benefit analysis and selling you $4500 of points gives them more profit than the cost of the freebies. They may increase to 50, but it depends on whether it increases or decreased the bottom line which is likely their only consideration.

 

[ziravan]

There seems to be 2 schools of thought here:

1. But the contract says...

2. The contract is barely worth the paper it's written on.

There's a maxim: you can't fight city hall.

Disney is essentially it's own city hall.

I've actually spent time fighting city hall. Typically, the people who make the rules feel the absolute least inclined to live by them.

If you've ever gone to court or fought over the interpretation of a contract (or statute), then you probably know that the odds are normally stacked in favor of the power players.

I've been up close and ugly fighting 'the man' and I've seen plain English legal wording become muddied and everybody involved including the legal system just winks and nods.

And Disney is a power player.

I know what the contract says. I've actually read the whole thing more than once.

I also have enough experience with the legal system to realistically suspect that the actual interpretation of anything in the POS will end up being whatever Disney says it is if litigated. I'm fairly certain that would hold true in most cases.

That's assuming anybody would spend the tens of thousands of dollars to test it in court. And no, there won't be any class action suits. Class action attorneys actually like to win cases (and get paid) and it would be more trouble than it's worth to challenge a timeshare company in Florida:

There's a reason why most banks HQ in Delaware and most timeshares HQ in Florida, and it's the same reason: favorable legal environment.

So. Based on my practical experience with power players being all but above the law, I remain firmly in the latter camp. That might not be right, but what's right and what is aren't always the same.

 

[Dean]

But the only thing we all bought is partial interest in a unit, represented by points, which by appertuance gives us all membership of a club. Membership of a club is specifically set out in the declaration of condominium. The club is governed by rules, the use of the property (including home resort booking advantage) is governed by the deed, declaration of condominium and exhibits. We all have those rights, we are all members. The only way it has got 'worse' for non direct purchasers is that the developer has taken away non contractual freebies it gives away for marketing purposes on a whim. Something it is entirely entitled to do. This doesn't mean it will deteriorate for resale buyers, DVD are frankly hamstrung by the deeds, and it has never even hinted it would act illegally. We all got what we paid for, bought and contractually agreed, and we are certainly all members of a club. To say we aren't members of the club, or doesn't matter that we are not called members, when we are talking about Disney Vacation Club, is slightly ridiculous!
As to whether DVD are generous to allow members to be 'qualified' (not sure where that terminology comes from but I'll stick with it), yes you could be correct Dean 25 points may be low for DVD to agree to throw non contractual freebies at you. Then again, I suspect they have done the costs benefit analysis and selling you $4500 of points gives them more profit than the cost of the freebies. They may increase to 50, but it depends on whether it increases or decreased the bottom line which is likely their only consideration.

There are a lot of things within the POS and it's interpretation that can change. Actually anything can change though some things require a vote. But oh, we've signed over our voting rights to them as well so anything could change. There have been a lot of changes within the POS that are negative for many members or in favor of retail. Reallocations, banking windows and banking specifically for retail members come to mind. The Bylaws and declaration of condominium have specific change language. Reservations are controlled by DVCMC without input as specifically stated. The idea that this is static and unchangeable has already been proven incorrect by DVC already. I would agree there are some potential protections but they are the 600# gorilla. The dictum with timeshares is that they always change and rarely for the better.

There seems to be 2 schools of thought here:

1. But the contract says...

2. The contract is barely worth the paper it's written on.

There's a maxim: you can't fight city hall.

Disney is essentially it's own city hall.

The answer is somewhere in between but related to absoluteness at the time of the opening of a given resort, closer to the latter.

 

[SL6827]

I'm a RN in the US. In 1965, in order to foster a movement to Bach degrees for nurses, the American Nurses Association deemed Assoc degree RNs to be "Technical Nurses" and Bach degree RNs to be "Professional Nurses".

The phraseology never caught on. An RN is an RN.

But. What it DID do was create a backlash that has prevented the ANA from accomplishing its original goal even a half century later.

There's no call to insult someone to get what you want, and it doesn't usually work. For US nursing, it created a half century backlash.

This is more or less my same point with DVC here. Member. Purchaser. It's petty. And it's completely unnecessary for DVC to be successfull.

Ok, completely off topic here, but I just wanna ask. Say you are a RN and then later decide to get your BSN, do you actually learn far more in the field of medicine by going for your BSN, or are you taking a whole lot of classes that are just for "show"?

 

[ziravan]

Ok, completely off topic here, but I just wanna ask. Say you are a RN and then later decide to get your BSN, do you actually learn far more in the field of medicine by going for your BSN, or are you taking a whole lot of classes that are just for "show"?

Off topic but you asked. And I'm sure someone will disagree with me.

Show. Nursing theory that ends up being a load of garbage with no actual real world applications.

Worse. The education elites like to claim that if you don't agree with them, then it's because you don't have their educational background. If the average nurse can't make practical use of their theories, then they're useless as anything but academic shoulder patting among peers.

I've been a nurse for 24 yrs and almost didn't survive my first year. I survived once I learned that at least half my formal education was garbage to be dumped on the curb.

(I'm not talking about the science. Not the pharmacology. Not application.)

I learned to survive once I adopted my own pair of nursing theories that I use very successfully in my career. And. You don't need a doctorate to understand Tim's Theories of Nursing:

1. I am a patient advocate.

2. If this were my Mom, how would I want this patient treated.

 

[SL6827]

Off topic but you asked. And I'm sure someone will disagree with me.

Show. Nursing theory that ends up being a load of garbage with no actual real world applications.

Worse. The education elites like to claim that if you don't agree with them, then it's because you don't have their educational background. If the average nurse can't make practical use of their theories, then they're useless as anything but academic shoulder patting among peers.

I've been a nurse for 24 yrs and almost didn't survive my first year. I survived once I learned that at least half my formal education was garbage to be dumped on the curb.

(I'm not talking about the science. Not the pharmacology. Not application. But half of nursing is feel good garbage with no actual real world application. For example, care plans that nobody ever really uses to guide care. Not even nurses. They're 'check the boxes' busy work that keep nurses away from the bedside with paperwork that nobody will ever look at again - except for the next nurse and then only to make a few superficial changes to prove they were "updated".)

I learned to survive once I adopted my own pair of nursing theories that I use very successfully in my career. And. You don't need a doctorate to understand Tim's Theories of Nursing:

1. I am a patient advocate.

2. If this were my Mom, how would I want this patient treated.

I was thinking the other two years may be more for show than for actual medical classes. But, those "show" classes brings in a bigger paycheck, right? Anyway, I'll stop now, as this is so off topic.

 

[Dean]

I was thinking the other two years may be more for show than for actual medical classes. But, those "show" classes brings in a bigger paycheck, right? Anyway, I'll stop now, as this is so off topic.

IMO it gives a better starting point all else equal but as in all things medicine, it's largely OJT. It also opens doors to other options that may or may not be open to 2 yr RN's like Nurse Anesthetist or Nurse practitioner options. As I noted above, many hospitals have been required to demote or even fire LPN's and demote 2 yr RN's to achieve certain industry standards. Here's a site that talks about Magnet Status though note I just read over it quickly but it will give you an idea. In reality some of the best nurses I've been around have actually been LPN's. http://www.truthaboutnursing.org/faq/magnet.html

 

[SL6827]

In reality some of the best nurses I've been around have actually been LPN's. http://www.truthaboutnursing.org/faq/magnet.html

Great point!