"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[Mikie]

In regards to your perception of the BLM movement, once again I think it comes down to a matter of perspective. There are people of all types that embrace the BLM movements and its sentiments. I am one of them. Sure, a lot of us are angry and frustrated and sad and tired... but the overwhelming majority of us are peaceful, law abiding citizens trying to promote positive change. Sure there are a few bad apples as many PP's have said, but you can't project that onto the whole bunch. Especially when those few bad apples get a disproportionate amount of media coverage. You say "many" people in the movement are being "LOUD and violent" while I think the reality is that VERY FEW people are. You can choose to focus on the negative of BLM if you want, but that is a small minority. It is also not very productive. BLM has been very vocal about not being violent and completely against retaliation. Pretty much every leader of the black community came out IMMEDIATELY and condemned the killer of those innocent police officers... Google what The Game is doing, Snoop Dogg, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Beyonce, etc. They are trying to affect positive change, not incite violence. But instead of seeing that, people choose to believe all this propaganda and media that BLM wants to kill more police and promote more violence. Propaganda such as implying there members out the movement are out there throwing molotov cocktails. That is very strong imagery you are using there and I think it says something that those are the words and actions you would use to describe your perception of the movement. I do thank you though for taking the time to have a reasonable conversation.

LASTLY, I HAVE A QUESTION. HAVE YOU OR ANYBODY HERE EVER EVEN TAKEN THE TIME TO READ THE BLM WEBSITE??? It addresses 99% of the arguments I have seen on this thread, including yours. You can get the information right from the horses mouth, or you can continue to believe what you see on Fox News. Either way at least take the time to look at it and listen to what they have to say for themselves.

http://blacklivesmatter.com/11-major-misconceptions-about-the-black-lives-matter-movement/

I'm jumping around a little and the rock-throwing has unfortunately escalated in this thread in which I previously thought there were complex and difficult issues being discussed relatively peacefully, but here goes.

In red above, I have personally seen "Many" people in the movement behaving poorly, but I do agree that's a poor choice of words. It implies that a majority of the movement is behaving badly, when that's not true. There are many, many MORE peacefully protesting for a good cause. However, the "minority" of bad actors is definintely much greater than a handful that can be easily dismissed.

BLM vocal about nonviolence - very good point and good reminder. Even in the Ferguson debacles, Michael Brown's parents immediately and frequently made statements about the need for peace, nonviolence and non-retaliation.

Propaganda - I take objection to this. It is not propaganda to discuss the truth, no matter how ugly. Propaganda would be exaggerating an isolated instance of violence or completely inventing one. I live near Ferguson, MO and saw first-hand much destruction, violence, rioting, looting, burning and abuse of the police by "peaceful" protestors. This occurred over a period of days and weeks when Michael Brown was first shot, again on the 1 year anniversary, and again when the grand jury results came out. My neighbor works in the school district that adjoins Ferguson and school started days late because it wasn't safe to be in the area. Dear friends are police officers who had to work long hours protecting protestors rights to gather all the while standing in the heat and taking ridiculous abuse. Discussing these ugly truths is not propaganda.

Thanks for posting the BLM site. I admit I hadn't read it because I considered BLM a loose catchphrase without real leadership and never thought to look for official statements of philosophy. I'll look at it now.

 

[Disn3yVision]

Unfortunately, that is a very good example of ingrained prejudice. It is just wrong to assume someone is racist based on their race, geographic location, or upbringing as it is to assume that someone is a criminal or dangerous based on the same things.

This is the type of statement or argument that continues to divide. We cannot expect peole to accept and embrace if we aren't willing to do the same.

I am making my assumptions based on statements I have read and hints I have picked up while reading 50 pages of comments. I also used a of qualifiers and no definitives, as it was purely a statement that something wouldn't surprise me. I am not saying it is necessarily true.

 

[MariMama]

I am making my assumptions based on statements I have read and hints I have picked up while reading 50 pages of comments. I also used a of qualifiers and no definitives, as it was purely a statement that something wouldn't surprise me. I am not saying it is necessarily true.

And you see no irony in your post above?

 

[Disn3yVision]

I'm jumping around a little and the rock-throwing has unfortunately escalated in this thread in which I previously thought there were complex and difficult issues being discussed relatively peacefully, but here goes.

In red above, I have personally seen "Many" people in the movement behaving poorly, but I do agree that's a poor choice of words. It implies that a majority of the movement is behaving badly, when that's not true. There are many, many MORE peacefully protesting for a good cause. However, the "minority" of bad actors is definintely much greater than a handful that can be easily dismissed.

BLM vocal about nonviolence - very good point and good reminder. Even in the Ferguson debacles, Michael Brown's parents immediately and frequently made statements about the need for peace, nonviolence and non-retaliation.

Propaganda - I take objection to this. It is not propaganda to discuss the truth, no matter how ugly. Propaganda would be exaggerating an isolated instance of violence or completely inventing one. I live near Ferguson, MO and saw first-hand much destruction, violence, rioting, looting, burning and abuse of the police by "peaceful" protestors. This occurred over a period of days and weeks when Michael Brown was first shot, again on the 1 year anniversary, and again when the grand jury results came out. My neighbor works in the school district that adjoins Ferguson and school started days late because it wasn't safe to be in the area. Dear friends are police officers who had to work long hours protecting protestors rights to gather all the while standing in the heat and taking ridiculous abuse. Discussing these ugly truths is not propaganda.

Thanks for posting the BLM site. I admit I hadn't read it because I considered BLM a loose catchphrase without real leadership and never thought to look for official statements of philosophy. I'll look at it now.

Im not saying it is all propoganda, or even mostly propaganda. I am saying there is A LOT of propaganda. The amount of photoshopped images advertising a BLM protest to kill police is one example and is sickening.

Thank you for your response and checking out the site.

 

[Disn3yVision]

And you see no irony in your post above?

I see the irony in that this thread did not start with hundreds of years of oppression, murder, abuse, and slavery, which may have in turn heavily influenced why people act and think a certain way.

 

[MariMama]

I see the irony in that this thread did not start with hundreds of years of oppression, murder, and slavery, which may have in turn heavily influenced why people act and think a certain way.

Okey dokey. Mama out.

 

[roseaster]

I am making my assumptions based on statements I have read and hints I have picked up while reading 50 pages of comments. I also used a of qualifiers and no definitives, as it was purely a statement that something wouldn't surprise me. I am not saying it is necessarily true.

I am sorry, I disagree with you. I certainly understand you making these assumptions personally, because we are all programmed by our experiences and upbringing to think certain things, but voicing these assumptions just widens the divide.

It is no better than voicing the assumptions that someone is circumspect based on their style of dress or race.

We all need to try to face an overcome our preconceived notions. That is a good portion of why this whole problem exists.

 

[MainMom]

I am making my assumptions based on statements I have read and hints I have picked up while reading 50 pages of comments. I also used a of qualifiers and no definitives, as it was purely a statement that something wouldn't surprise me. I am not saying it is necessarily true.

I have read this whole thread. As a white woman in a predominately white area I have learned a lot here from you and other posters. This statement makes me sad for you and what you are trying to achieve. It is exactly what you don't want the the 'other side' to do, what you say happens to black people, yet you made qualifiers so it's ok? So now I guess it's ok for me to say that the black kid wearing thug clothing is probably trouble waiting to happen because it's just something I've picked up, you know, watching the news. Maybe it's not true, but it wouldn't surprise me. Hope you're not offended.

Really though, I want you to know that you were influencing me. Please take to heart when I say that your statement makes me sad. Perhaps it's time to step back and regroup your thoughts. You were doing good here.

 

[Mikie]

I have read this whole thread. As a white woman in a predominately white area I have learned a lot here from you and other posters. This statement makes me sad for you and what you are trying to achieve. It is exactly what you don't want the the 'other side' to do, what you say happens to black people, yet you made qualifiers so it's ok? So now I guess it's ok for me to say that the black kid wearing thug clothing is probably trouble waiting to happen because it's just something I've picked up, you know, watching the news. Maybe it's not true, but it wouldn't surprise me. Hope you're not offended.

Really though, I want you to know that you were influencing me. Please take to heart when I say that your statement makes me sad. Perhaps it's time to step back and regroup your thoughts. You were doing good here.

Wish I could like this more than once!!

 

[sunshinehighway]

I have read this whole thread. As a white woman in a predominately white area I have learned a lot here from you and other posters. This statement makes me sad for you and what you are trying to achieve. It is exactly what you don't want the the 'other side' to do, what you say happens to black people, yet you made qualifiers so it's ok? So now I guess it's ok for me to say that the black kid wearing thug clothing is probably trouble waiting to happen because it's just something I've picked up, you know, watching the news. Maybe it's not true, but it wouldn't surprise me. Hope you're not offended.

Really though, I want you to know that you were influencing me. Please take to heart when I say that your statement makes me sad. Perhaps it's time to step back and regroup your thoughts. You were doing good here.

I think you're taking his post in a way he didn't mean. There are a lot of thing written in this thread that are veiled. I think, that's what he meant.

 

[Mikie]

Im not saying it is all propoganda, or even mostly propaganda. I am saying there is A LOT of propaganda. The amount of photoshopped images advertising a BLM protest to kill police is one example and is sickening.

Thank you for your response and checking out the site.

Just to expand in case other readers don't know, or maybe you yourself don't. Specifically, I mentioned BLM and molotov cocktails; you said that my use of that phrase and imagery was propaganda. You later went on to say that there is lots of OTHER propaganda and photoshopped "evidence" - I am sure you are very right about that - one of the dangers of the digital age. Just to be very clear, though, I did not make up the molotov cocktails and they can't all be included as propaganda. It happened in my area and is an ugly part of the progression of the whole issue. There have been and will continue to be nasty bumps on this road, but I hope everyone involved will steer toward more and more rational discussion and away from those types of things.

 

[L&Lfan]

Would you include yourself in this category?

SHADE!

 

[Mikie]

This is one of the most patronizing posts on this entire thread.

http://www.derailingfordummies.com/derail-using-anger/

WHy is this patronizing? I read your link and agree it happens a lot, it's a good essay. However, MainMom didn't accuse anyone of being angry and needing to pretend there's no issue. She specifically stated that she's learning a lot and that the discussion is important. She pointed out a hypocrisy and saying "you were doing good when you pointed out flaws in the "other side", but you damage your argument when you sink to their level". Aren't we all taught that by our mamas?

 

[ASchwa]

Please research BLM. They have founders, but they do not have national leadership, per se. It is not like the SNCC or SCLC who had a national leadership and local chapters with membership and bylaws or even guidelines. These people started this movement, but they do not govern, in any way, how the use of their hashtag and organization is used in terms of statement or demonstration.

Anyone can say, do, or write anything and hash tag it with #blacklivesmatter. So there are many, many differing opinions among people who affiliate themselves with #blacklivesmatter, or use the hashtag. There is no central organization. One person may support one thing while another doesn't.

It is a large problem with the movement.

I did research BLM. That is when I found out about their alliance with the Palestinians. I found the articles and proof that Patrisse Cullers, who started the organization BLM, sign an agreement with the Palestinians. I don't know if you know this but a lot of Israelis are Ethiopian descent. When last year a soldier of Ethiopian descent was beaten by Israeli Police, people came out and protested what happened. No society is perfect, but an organization that knowingly uses lies as one of their bases I can't support. Just like I am angry at the KKK. Their founding was divisive and full of lies. They killed people on lies. Sound familiar.

As for hashtags, anyone can make up a hashtag. I remember one year at the Oscars, someone hashtagged Angelina Jolie's Leg. So using a hashtag means nothing today.

 

[Disn3yVision]

I have read this whole thread. As a white woman in a predominately white area I have learned a lot here from you and other posters. This statement makes me sad for you and what you are trying to achieve. It is exactly what you don't want the the 'other side' to do, what you say happens to black people, yet you made qualifiers so it's ok? So now I guess it's ok for me to say that the black kid wearing thug clothing is probably trouble waiting to happen because it's just something I've picked up, you know, watching the news. Maybe it's not true, but it wouldn't surprise me. Hope you're not offended.

Really though, I want you to know that you were influencing me. Please take to heart when I say that your statement makes me sad. Perhaps it's time to step back and regroup your thoughts. You were doing good here.

Watching the news is different than first hand experience. You said you are a white woman in a white area so its sounds like you don't have much experience with black men who dress like "thugs" (like basketball players and artists do btw). I would like you to know that my mom is a middle aged white woman raised in the midwest and south. She raised me by herself and loves me more than anybody and I her. She has told me how she was raised and what was believed and taught in her community as a child. I have heard the horror stories of the harassment she got for dating black men. I am half white. My sister and only sibling is white. My grandfather is white and lives in Martinsville, Virginia, where I have visited him numerous times. My grandmother is a white woman raised in midwest and I know how she thinks because I have been around it. My first cousin that I am closest with moved to South Carolina two years ago and got a confederate flag tattoed on his back. We used to go swimming every summer and eat thanksgiving dinner together every year before that. Since then we have had many arguments and long discussions. When my uncles and grandma and cousins get together they make tons of racist jokes and say VERY inappopriate things and reflect much of the backwards thinking on this thread. And they have for the last 34 years. I've gotten used to it. I love them none the less and still attend every family function happy to be there and spend time with my loved ones. But that doesn't change the fact that they are racist. Whether they or I want to admit it.

I am just as white as I am black so I have every right to talk about issues and behavioral patterns I have LIVED AND WITNESSED in the white community just as much as I am to speak out about what the black community needs to do to address the issues on our end. I have spent much time in virginia, south carolina... Around my family and their friends and I am sorry but things are different there than they are here in California. I would be shocked to find out that these people were young white people from Seattle or California being blatantly racist and I still highly doubt thats the case. We barely got south carolina to take the confederate flag down for God sakes. Once again I stand by my statement. I am talking about very specific people (such as one I know is from the south and is a older because he is retired) and I am saying yes, I think where and when they were raised has contributed to the insensitivity I have found on this thread. The good news is that it IS, slowly, getting better with each generation, and it does give me a little bit of solace to know that my two little light skinned black boys will have to deal with less racism than I did or my father before me because of conversations like this and movements such as BLM.

I have had my fair share of drama for today. Time to play Pokemon.

 

[cabanafrau]

No we wouldn't because we have conceded to all of your arguments and points. WE AGREE! Yes blacks need not to be violent, EVER. Yes we should respect police officers and follow instructions. Yes many black people are poor and live in bad neighborhoods. Yes blacks perpetuate black stereotypes. Yes some black are criminals. YES YES YES YES. WE AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS and have said so many times. We agree just as adamantly that we need to change these issues. BUT THOSE ISSUES ARE ALL YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT. When we are trying to talk about bigger issues that need to be addressed you always tun it back to the above issues. We hear your complaints but you don't want to hear ours. We accept our responsibility in the situation, but it isn't ALL our responsibility. There are things outside of our control we need your help with. But you don't think there is a problem on your end, only on ours. Makes is pretty hard to have a conversation.

Everybody needs not to be violent, EVER. Everybody should respect the uniform and follow police instructions for our own good. Respect the good police officers based on their actions and be glad somebody's doing an important job well. Many of every race and ethnicity are poor and live in bad neighborhoods, unfortunately too many and more everyday with the way our economy has been heading the past 15 years in particular. Blacks perpetuate black stereotypes? Psst, blacks don't have the corner on the market when it comes to being criminals, believe me I see that daily -- kind of drives home that point about not needing anybody to be violent, EVER, in an in your face kind of way.

If you're not violent, a criminal or a racist, what is it that you're accepting responsibility for? I'm accepting responsibility for my actions, mine, not anybody else's. That's all I expect from you or anybody else. I don't want policing based on race for a lot of reasons, absolutely think it needs to be stopped. I certainly don't want to see police shooting people recklessly or needlessly. I don't think Black Lives Matter is the answer and I think it's just going to keep a divide in place. That's especially tragic when I think we desperately need momentum to move us beyond all of the racial idiocy for good. I don't like Blue Lives Matter because I feel that's a place for the bad cops to hide.

This is never going to heal until the overriding momentum pulls the majority of us together to a place where everybody can just be.

 

[Planogirl]

I'll just add this one last thing and be on my way following a couple of recent posts that are simply beyond the pale.

If anyone reads through all of my posts and truly concludes that I am racist or somehow part of the problem -- when I am here engaging in respectful dialogue based as much in facts as possible, have acknowledged multiple times that inequities exist that must be corrected, and am looking for groups to wholeheartedly support that I think will get to these issues in the most effective way possible (better than I think BLM will be able to) -- then I am not sure what more I can say.

This is the first time I've engaged on DIS in a thread that wasn't about a WDW trip. Lesson learned, I suppose!

You can still have a dialogue or just read as I am doing. The Ignore feature is an amazing tool.

 

[MainMom]

Watching the news is different than first hand experience. You said you are a white woman in a white area so its sounds like you don't have much experience with black men who dress like "thugs" (like basketball players and artists do btw). I would like you to know that my mom is a middle aged white woman raised in the midwest and south. She raised me by herself and loves me more than anybody and I her. She has told me how she was raised and what was believed in here community as a child. I have heard the horror stories of the harassment she got for dating black men. I am half white. My sister and only sibling is white. My grandfather is white and lives in Martinsville, Virginia, where I have visited him numerous times. My grandmother is a white woman raised in midwest and I know how she thinks because I have been around it. My first cousin that I am closest with moved to South Carolina two years ago and got a confederate flag tattoed on his back. We used to go swimming every summer and eat thanksgiving dinner together every year before that. Since then we have had many arguments and long discussions. When my uncles and grandma and cousins get together they make racist jokes and say VERY inappopriate things and reflect much of the thinking on this post. And they have for the last 34 years. Ive gotten used to it. I love them none the less and still attend every family function happy to be there and spend time with my loved ones. But that doesn't change the fact that they are racist. Whether they or I want to admit it.

I am just as white as I am black so I have every right to talk about issues and behavioral patterns I have LIVED AND WITNESSED in the white community just as much as I am to speak out about what the black community needs to do to address the issues on our end. I have spent much time in virginia, south carolina... Around my family and their friends and I am sorry but things are different there than they are here in California. I would be shocked to find out that these people were young white people from Seattle or California being blatantly racist and I still highly doubt thats the case. We barely got south carolina to take the confederate flag down for God sakes. Once again I stand by my statement. I am talking about very specific people (such as one I know is from the south and is a older because he is retired) and I am saying yes, I think where and when they were raised has contributed to the insensitivity I have found on this thread. The good news is it is getting better with each generation, and I it does give me a little solace to know that my two little light skinned black boys will have to deal with less racism than I did or my father before me because of conversations like this and movements such as BLM.

Thank you for sharing your story. I will say again that you and other posters have influenced my thinking. I do not discount your experiences and yes, you should stand by them. My Grand father was racist, 100%. Small town farmer, barely left the area. My white cousins brought home a black friend from college to said small town. My Grandmother asked the cousins parents if he was in a gang because he had a band-aid on his forehead. It was ignorant and racist. Even back when this happened, I was probably 10-14 I'm nearing 40 now, we knew it was wrong, it was the way my parents raised us DESPITE being raised by a racist. My sister called my Grandpa out on his use of the N word. He laughed. This was in the Midwest.

With my very limited, second hand knowledge (as it were) I can understand the geographic and age groups point. I get that! What I don't think is helpful to the discussion is pointing it out because I think it does what you don't want it to do which is detract from your cause. That is all I was saying. No hidden agenda to derail a thread. I wil go back to lurking now.

PS-You have a beautiful family (in both of your pics.)

 

[Unas]

If BLM has no formal leadership, only forums, why did Patrisse Cullers sign on behalf of BLM to align themselves with the Palestinians?

It might help if you got her name correct. She signed on (to the letter urging an end to the occupation and institutional divestment of holdings in companies that profit from the occupation) as an individual.

 

[Planogirl]

Thank you for sharing your story. I will say again that you and other posters have influenced my thinking. I do not discount your experiences and yes, you should stand by them. My Grand father was racist, 100%. Small town farmer, barely left the area. My white cousins brought home a black friend from college to said small town. My Grandmother asked the cousins parents if he was in a gang because he had a band-aid on his forehead. It was ignorant and racist. Even back when this happened, I was probably 10-14 I'm nearing 40 now, we knew it was wrong, it was the way my parents raised us DESPITE being raised by a racist. My sister called my Grandpa out on his use of the N word. He laughed. This was in the Midwest.

With my very limited, second hand knowledge (as it were) I can understand the geographic and age groups point. I get that! What I don't think is helpful to the discussion is pointing it out because I think it does what you don't want it to do which is detract from your cause. That is all I was saying. No hidden agenda to derail a thread. I wil go back to lurking now.

PS-You have a beautiful family (in both of your pics.)

I have learned a lot from this thread too. I appreciate that.

I remember an event that opened my eyes too. I was raised mostly in Europe by a liberal mother and a Dad who was a live and let live type. Once a cousin that lived in rural Texas brought a date to my house that happened to be black. She asked me to not mention that she visited since her mother wouldn't understand why she was dating someone who was black. I remember wondering what there was to understand. Mixed couples were already prevalent in much of Europe so that was something that just seemed normal to me. I do think that she worried to much about my aunt though. Later on it turned out to be no big deal but in certain areas you never know.

There was another bad event back in the day when we lived in Georgia but I won't go into that except to say that it involved bizarre racist violence. I never understand how people can be so rotten to other people.

And now I will also return to lurking.