"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

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Its actually the truth. And basically all I hear you saying is you are against black lives matter because they are based on lies. Because black men being killed by police being a major problem in America is a lie. So lets not address it, ignore their pleas for help, put them down and call them liars.
I would only say that you should go back and read my posts if this is what you've extracted.

I have said REPEATEDLY that it should be addressed -- but that I do not believe BLM is the right vehicle for the myriad reasons posted in this thread.
 
Somebody dropped all of these. I cleaned them up for you. Hard to clean such thin veils, but I made it work.


thinveils.jpg
 
I believe there is a problem with our society and instituional racism. If you want to convince me there isn't, it's not going to happen.
I don't know why you'd want to convince me of that though since people here keep saying they do think there's a problem but they just don't like BLM.
Since I'm one of the one that doesn't like BLM let me say a bit more of what I don't like about the movement.

I think the big thing is it needs a leader or two that drive to more good. I think there are alot of splinter groups that are running around and giving it a really bad name and souring alot of people and those splinter groups don't get the real cause.

The cause of breaking down ingrained social racisim is a great cause.
The cause of having all people regardless of skin color be treated the same by law enforcement is a great cause.

They need someone to lead and BLM to say "We do not condone the acts of those that in our name are harming police officers." they need someone or better a group to organize events in a peaceful way and lead.

They probably need a better name one that includes more people with them (like for example are hispanics and asians treated differently by police? I honestly have no idea...)

Honestly this thread has changed my thoughts some as I have gone from thinking the entire movement is stupid to realizing what I said above... I think they need a small group to step up and take charge.

Now maybe they have it already and they are just having trouble reigning in the splinter groups but the actions of those groups just aren't making good news for the media. I hope this is the case. My area tends to have very little discussions of race (I live in a very not diverse town, seriously I think more then 50% of the people are polish, nevermind European as a whole in descent)
 

Somebody dropped all of these. I cleaned them up for you. Hard to clean such thin veils, but I made it work.


View attachment 181699
You sure you didn't find any of these?

5362c3049fc7e.image.jpg


Oh, probably not, since they're all being worn.
 
No we wouldn't because we have conceded to all of your arguments and points. WE AGREE! Yes blacks need not to be violent, EVER. Yes we should respect police officers and follow instructions. Yes many black people are poor and live in bad neighborhoods. Yes blacks perpetuate black stereotypes. Yes some black are criminals. YES YES YES YES. WE AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS and have said so many times. We agree just as adamantly that we need to change these issues. BUT THOSE ISSUES ARE ALL YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT. When we are trying to talk about bigger issues that need to be addressed you always tun it back to the above issues. We hear your complaints but you don't want to hear ours. We accept our responsibility in the situation, but it isn't ALL our responsibility. There are things outside of our control we need your help with. But you don't think there is a problem on your end, only on ours. Makes is pretty hard to have a conversation.
This is just false. I have focused on the OP and why I agree wrt BLM -- that they would be a better vehicle if they did some things differently. Nothing that I have said supports your statement in bold above.

But you know what? I think I agree with @Goofy_Disney_Dad now! I was trying to have a discussion and exchange ideas with best of intentions. If you've drawn this above conclusion, @sunshinehighway just concluded that it's all just "back and forth", not sure why I'm bothering, right? :)

Too bad. I was so optimistic yesterday. :(
 
From what I've read, I haven't seen much change and growth. Just back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth and back and forth.

Kind of like where the Middle East is at after far too much death and misery for far too long. Never fixed unless collectively people decide to reject the way it's been, the way it's been done, the faults and the blame, etc., etc. and decide to move forward in a new way with everybody shouldering responsibility and giving respect just because whoever you pass is a human being and deserves respect. We're never going to achieve perfection, but things like racism serve no one, add nothing positive, so why do we want to burden ourselves with it?
 
Wow. Sad comment if this is what you've really taken from this thread.



ETA: Also sad to see anyone "like" this post who has actually been part of the dialogue here. Is that REALLY what you think?? Anyone who doesn't agree with you in this thread is just a "racist being racist"?!?!?

There's been a lot of racism on this thread both veiled and outright. Maybe some peoples don't recognize some of the more veiled racism so they like the post without realizing they are being racist. That doesn't make it any less racist. Some people don't seem to understand that racism encompasses more than just a conscious dislike of a different race.
Also the way you pose your question is a problem. You are making the assumption that people who see racism in this thread think everything that goes against what they believe is racist.
I believe there had been a lot of racism on this thread. No I don't believe everyone who disagrees with me is just being racist.
 
Since I'm one of the one that doesn't like BLM let me say a bit more of what I don't like about the movement.

I think the big thing is it needs a leader or two that drive to more good. I think there are alot of splinter groups that are running around and giving it a really bad name and souring alot of people and those splinter groups don't get the real cause.

The cause of breaking down ingrained social racisim is a great cause.
The cause of having all people regardless of skin color be treated the same by law enforcement is a great cause.

They need someone to lead and BLM to say "We do not condone the acts of those that in our name are harming police officers." they need someone or better a group to organize events in a peaceful way and lead.

They probably need a better name one that includes more people with them (like for example are hispanics and asians treated differently by police? I honestly have no idea...)

Honestly this thread has changed my thoughts some as I have gone from thinking the entire movement is stupid to realizing what I said above... I think they need a small group to step up and take charge.

Now maybe they have it already and they are just having trouble reigning in the splinter groups but the actions of those groups just aren't making good news for the media. I hope this is the case. My area tends to have very little discussions of race (I live in a very not diverse town, seriously I think more then 50% of the people are polish, nevermind European as a whole in descent)

I do think there's a big problem with groups on a local level. For all the good some are trying to do, you end up with yahoos that are leading another chapter that do something stupid and it gives all a bad reputation.
The attention goes to the protest with bad behavior and nobody knows about all the ones that don't have that.
Same with with speaking out. Its not that some aren't, it's just not as interesting of a story than if something controversial is said.
I don't really think the name matters because people will find a reason to dislike it if they really want to.
 
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http://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas...atal-shooting-of-unarmed-teenager-Dylan-Noble

Interesting article in that its an unarmed white man getting shot, for not complying with police instructions.

This is what some have been saying on this thread, as far as the shootings (not the pulling over etc) it's the actions not the skin colour getting them shot

The point that people are trying to make is that the actions of people of color are more suspect than the actions of caucasian people and are more likely to end up in a physical use of force. That, because of systemic racism people of color are considered more violent or more likely to be violent than a caucasian person. I don't think that anyone believes that force should never be used, it is appropriate in certain cases, people are saying that it is disproportionately applied to people of color in questionable incidents.

People are going to have issues with the slogan #blacklivesmatter no matter how it is re-worded. First, slogans have to be short and easily remembered and used. #blacklivesmatterasmuchaseveryoneelse's doesn't really work, but that is the message behind the slogan. No matter how you re-word it, people are going to find fault, if that is what they want to do. It is not meant to say that ONLY black lives matter or that they matter more than anyone else's.

Directly from BLM:

" #BlackLivesMatter is an online forum intended to build connections between Black people and our allies to fight anti-Black racism, to spark dialogue among Black people, and to facilitate the types of connections necessary to encourage social action and engagement."

The problem with the BLM movement is that they have no central leadership. They are more of a forum. So while the above was the original goal, there are no official "rules" or "bylaws" to adhere to. So the BLM movement in Philadelphia may look vastly different from the one in Toronto, or Chicago, or Dallas. or Los Angeles. Pretty much anyone can represent themselves under the #blacklivesmatter hashtag.

The civil rights movement had a centralized leadership. They had "rules" and common goals. Also, they had more tangible, obvious things they were fighting. Systemic racism is less focused. It was easy to exact change in the racist policies of the Selma public transportation system, for example. Black people were the major users of the buses in Selma. If they didn't ride the bus company lost a lot of money. One cannot boycott the criminal justice/law enforcement system.

No one is stating that people of color should not be prosecuted if they commit crimes, or that they should receive lesser sentences, people are asking that minorities be treated with the same standard as caucasian people. It has been hashed out, but use the Stanford rape case for example. Judge Persky sentenced the Stanford rapist to 6 months in county jail saying that a longer prison sentence would adversely impact his life. Prior to that Persky tried a case involving a man named Raul Ramirez. The crimes were similar. Both men had no criminal records. The difference was Ramirez admitted to police, on the scene what he did. He plead guilty, he accepted responsibility for his crime, and he apologized to the victim. Ramirez received the sentence recommendation of 3 years in state prison. Ramirez received a punishment for a crime that was 6 times harsher, yet he accepted, admitted, felt remorse for and apologized for his crime. Turner denied responsibility, blaming it on "party culture." He never admitted or accepted that he was in the wrong.

I don't think that white people are, inherently, more racist. I believe that prejudice exists in all cultures and all walks of life. I think, historically, white people have been more public regarding prejudice (KKK, Aryan Nation, etc) in the U.S. which may give the impression that they are more prejudiced.

I think that the misunderstanding of prejudice comes about because people think that if they aren't using racial slurs, or barring people from sitting in a certain place, or joining a certain organization that they don't have prejudice. I think it is the subtle things or ideas that they miss. That when they see a certain "type" of name they make assumptions on the person. That when they see a black man they are more wary of him. When they see a woman in a hijab they make certain assumptions. Of course, this type of prejudice isn't limited to just white people. It exists in all cultures.

My husband has a colleague. A black man in his 40s. He is a very talented physician. When he is working and easily identified as a doctor he is, for the most part, treated with respect. ...but it is a different story when he throws on jeans and a t-shirt and walks down the street or goes to the store. If he shops in a high end store he is still followed and watched. Women still pull their purses closer.

FTR those that bring up medical error, the medical community is well aware of this problem. Within hospital systems there are committees solely dedicated to ongoing study and training in issues of process improvement. The problem is acknowledged, studied, and their is active work being done to improve the problem.
 
I'll just add this one last thing and be on my way following a couple of recent posts that are simply beyond the pale.

If anyone reads through all of my posts and truly concludes that I am racist or somehow part of the problem -- when I am here engaging in respectful dialogue based as much in facts as possible, have acknowledged multiple times that inequities exist that must be corrected, and am looking for groups to wholeheartedly support that I think will get to these issues in the most effective way possible (better than I think BLM will be able to) -- then I am not sure what more I can say.

This is the first time I've engaged on DIS in a thread that wasn't about a WDW trip. Lesson learned, I suppose!
 
This is just false. I have focused on the OP and why I agree wrt BLM -- that they would be a better vehicle if they did some things differently. Nothing that I have said supports your statement in bold above.

But you know what? I think I agree with @Goofy_Disney_Dad now! I was trying to have a discussion and exchange ideas with best of intentions. If you've drawn this above conclusion, @sunshinehighway just concluded that it's all just "back and forth", not sure why I'm bothering, right? :)

Too bad. I was so optimistic yesterday. :(

I'll be completely honest.
I was very surprised yesterday when you and I started our dialogue. I thought perhaps you were genuinely interested in trying to understand why profilimg is wrong and how it contributes to our current climate. After a few responses, I found it frustrating because you just seemed to be giving me the same response regardless of what I said. I didn't feel like you are engaging a discussion with me to hear a different point of view of gain a different perspective but more to justify profiling.
 
Wow. Great response. Out of the entire website you chose to focus on that sentence. Once again 99% positivity and you manage to find one little part you don't agree with. I see you suffer from nearsightedness. You should get a prescription.

If 1% of the ASPCA's message was that dogfighting was acceptable, I'd stop donating.

Especially when it was the 1% that was being used to incite people - and the 99% is buried on a website.
 
The point that people are trying to make is that the actions of people of color are more suspect than the actions of caucasian people and are more likely to end up in a physical use of force. That, because of systemic racism people of color are considered more violent or more likely to be violent than a caucasian person. I don't think that anyone believes that force should never be used, it is appropriate in certain cases, people are saying that it is disproportionately applied to people of color in questionable incidents.

People are going to have issues with the slogan #blacklivesmatter no matter how it is re-worded. First, slogans have to be short and easily remembered and used. #blacklivesmatterasmuchaseveryoneelse's doesn't really work, but that is the message behind the slogan. No matter how you re-word it, people are going to find fault, if that is what they want to do. It is not meant to say that ONLY black lives matter or that they matter more than anyone else's.

Directly from BLM:

" #BlackLivesMatter is an online forum intended to build connections between Black people and our allies to fight anti-Black racism, to spark dialogue among Black people, and to facilitate the types of connections necessary to encourage social action and engagement."

The problem with the BLM movement is that they have no central leadership. They are more of a forum. So while the above was the original goal, there are no official "rules" or "bylaws" to adhere to. So the BLM movement in Philadelphia may look vastly different from the one in Toronto, or Chicago, or Dallas. or Los Angeles. Pretty much anyone can represent themselves under the #blacklivesmatter hashtag.

The civil rights movement had a centralized leadership. They had "rules" and common goals. Also, they had more tangible, obvious things they were fighting. Systemic racism is less focused. It was easy to exact change in the racist policies of the Selma public transportation system, for example. Black people were the major users of the buses in Selma. If they didn't ride the bus company lost a lot of money. One cannot boycott the criminal justice/law enforcement system.

No one is stating that people of color should not be prosecuted if they commit crimes, or that they should receive lesser sentences, people are asking that minorities be treated with the same standard as caucasian people. It has been hashed out, but use the Stanford rape case for example. Judge Persky sentenced the Stanford rapist to 6 months in county jail saying that a longer prison sentence would adversely impact his life. Prior to that Persky tried a case involving a man named Raul Ramirez. The crimes were similar. Both men had no criminal records. The difference was Ramirez admitted to police, on the scene what he did. He plead guilty, he accepted responsibility for his crime, and he apologized to the victim. Ramirez received the sentence recommendation of 3 years in state prison. Ramirez received a punishment for a crime that was 6 times harsher, yet he accepted, admitted, felt remorse for and apologized for his crime. Turner denied responsibility, blaming it on "party culture." He never admitted or accepted that he was in the wrong.

I don't think that white people are, inherently, more racist. I believe that prejudice exists in all cultures and all walks of life. I think, historically, white people have been more public regarding prejudice (KKK, Aryan Nation, etc) in the U.S. which may give the impression that they are more prejudiced.

I think that the misunderstanding of prejudice comes about because people think that if they aren't using racial slurs, or barring people from sitting in a certain place, or joining a certain organization that they don't have prejudice. I think it is the subtle things or ideas that they miss. That when they see a certain "type" of name they make assumptions on the person. That when they see a black man they are more wary of him. When they see a woman in a hijab they make certain assumptions. Of course, this type of prejudice isn't limited to just white people. It exists in all cultures.

My husband has a colleague. A black man in his 40s. He is a very talented physician. When he is working and easily identified as a doctor he is, for the most part, treated with respect. ...but it is a different story when he throws on jeans and a t-shirt and walks down the street or goes to the store. If he shops in a high end store he is still followed and watched. Women still pull their purses closer.

FTR those that bring up medical error, the medical community is well aware of this problem. Within hospital systems there are committees solely dedicated to ongoing study and training in issues of process improvement. The problem is acknowledged, studied, and their is active work being done to improve the problem.

If BLM has no formal leadership, only forums, why did Patrisse Cullers sign on behalf of BLM to align themselves with the Palestinians?
 
Its actually the truth. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the most ignorant people on this thread are older, white americans that live in the south or midwest and were raised a certain kind of way. Unfortunately that is a good portion of our country.

And basically all I hear you saying is you are against black lives matter because they are based on lies. Because black men being killed by police being a major problem in America is a lie. So lets not address it, ignore their pleas for help, put them down and call them liars. Cool.

Unfortunately, that is a very good example of ingrained prejudice. It is just wrong to assume someone is racist based on their race, geographic location, or upbringing as it is to assume that someone is a criminal or dangerous based on the same things.

This is the type of statement or argument that continues to divide. We cannot expect peole to accept and embrace if we aren't willing to do the same.
 
I think the big thing is it needs a leader or two that drive to more good. I think there are alot of splinter groups that are running around and giving it a really bad name and souring alot of people and those splinter groups don't get the real cause.

FROM THE WEBSITE:
The Black Lives Matter movement is a leaderfull movement. Many Americans of all races are enamored with Martin Luther King as a symbol of leadership and what real movements look like. But the Movement for Black Lives, another name for the BLM movement, recognizes many flaws with this model. First, focusing on heterosexual, cisgender black men frequently causes us not to see the significant amount of labor and thought leadership that black women provide to movements, not only in caretaking and auxiliary roles, but on the front lines of protests and in the strategy sessions that happen behind closed doors. Moreover, those old models leadership favored the old over the young, attempted to silence gay and lesbian leadership, and did not recognize the leadership possibilities of transgender people at all. Finally, a movement with a singular leader or a few visible leaders is vulnerable, because those leaders can be easily identified, harassed, and killed, as was the case with Dr. King. By having a leaderfull movement, BLM addresses many of these concerns. BLM is composed of many local leaders and many local organizations including Black Youth Project 100, the Dream Defenders, the Organization for Black Struggle, Hands Up United, Millennial Activists United, and the Black Lives Matter national network. We demonstrate through this model that the movement is bigger than any one person. And there is room for the talents, expertise, and work ethic of anyone who is committed to freedom.

They need someone to lead and BLM to say "We do not condone the acts of those that in our name are harming police officers." they need someone or better a group to organize events in a peaceful way and lead.

They Did: https://www.buzzfeed.com/rosebuchan...ence-in-dallas?utm_term=.mdovmgpQ8#.ajXW7weNA


They probably need a better name one that includes more people with them (like for example are hispanics and asians treated differently by police? I honestly have no idea...)

FROM OUR PRESIDENT: President Obama put it well during a panel discussion about the criminal justice system last month. “I think the reason that the organizers used the phrase ‘black lives matter’ was not because they were suggesting nobody else’s lives matter. What they were suggesting was, there is a specific problem that is happening in the African American community that’s not happening in other communities. And that is a legitimate issue that we’ve got to address.”

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...racist-trump-weekend-campaign-rally-proved-it
 
If BLM has no formal leadership, only forums, why did Patrisse Cullers sign on behalf of BLM to align themselves with the Palestinians?

Please research BLM. They have founders, but they do not have national leadership, per se. It is not like the SNCC or SCLC who had a national leadership and local chapters with membership and bylaws or even guidelines. These people started this movement, but they do not govern, in any way, how the use of their hashtag and organization is used in terms of statement or demonstration.

Anyone can say, do, or write anything and hash tag it with #blacklivesmatter. So there are many, many differing opinions among people who affiliate themselves with #blacklivesmatter, or use the hashtag. There is no central organization. One person may support one thing while another doesn't.

It is a large problem with the movement.
 
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