"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[Serrina89]

Moderator, is there anyway this thread can be closed? As a African American, I personally feel that this thread is a form of hate speech. BLM started as a hashtag to bring awareness to the unnecessary violence, pro-filing, and unfair due justice of the court system and became a platform or movement to demand due process of the law. Not all people who associate with the BLM are right and some are plain wrong, but it doesn't detract from the fact that racial profiling and unfair due process of African American by police officers and the justice system exists. Until you live 1 day in our lives, how could you make that judgement and say that this issue doesn't exists. This forum is one of the only places I have left to escape from the daily humdrum life. Please dont let this thread become a platform for hate.

 

[JimMIA]

Did you watch the video posted here of the activist going through the different police scenarios? That was one trigger happy guy.

Actually, he went 0-fer. He shot when he shouldn't have, and he stood there and just watched the other guy shoot him. And I was serious in what I said above; those scenarios were seriously slo-mo'd from what a real officer would face in the real world. They were no more than half-speed

But he was also undoubtedly the victim of selective editing to make the TV story better. He probably did okay overall. Which is fine for training. In the real world, perfect is the only acceptable score.

But the real point of that video was his learning experience. He found out that this stuff is not nearly as simple, easy, and cut-and-dried as he thought it was. And he wasn't just saying what he was expected to say. You could see it in his eyes. He definitely learned something!

 

[Poohforyou]

Meant to respond to this earlier, but the DIS was acting weird/slow/glitchy. What is your question? Do you mean tactics, or would an arrest be made? Give me a little more of an idea and I'll try to give you an honest answer to an honest question.

Hi, thanks. I mean tactics. Using this case in Minnesota as an example, driver said he was carrying and had a permit. What tactics are the police trained to use to ensure the driver doesn't pull his/her weapon?

 

[JimMIA]

Moderator, is there anyway this thread can be closed? As a African American, I personally feel that this thread is a form of hate speech. BLM started as a hashtag to bring awareness to the unnecessary violence, pro-filing, and unfair due justice of the court system and became a platform or movement to demand due process of the law. Not all people who associate with the BLM are right and some are plain wrong, but it doesn't detract from the fact that racial profiling and unfair due process of African American by police officers and the justice system exists. Until you live 1 day in our lives, how could you make that judgement and say that this issue doesn't exists. This forum is one of the only places I have left to escape from the daily humdrum life. Please dont let this thread become a platform for hate.

Actually, there have been 19 pages of respectful discussion, despite strong feelings and raw emotions, by people with widely different points of view. There has been no hate speech here at all.

 

[roseaster]

You and others here would greatly benefit from a ride along in a police car for a day.

You, and others would benefit from living with a minority family for a week.

Moderator, is there anyway this thread can be closed? As a African American, I personally feel that this thread is a form of hate speech. BLM started as a hashtag to bring awareness to the unnecessary violence, pro-filing, and unfair due justice of the court system and became a platform or movement to demand due process of the law. Not all people who associate with the BLM are right and some are plain wrong, but it doesn't detract from the fact that racial profiling and unfair due process of African American by police officers and the justice system exists. Until you live 1 day in our lives, how could you make that judgement and say that this issue doesn't exists. This forum is one of the only places I have left to escape from the daily humdrum life. Please dont let this thread become a platform for hate.

It is already a platform for hate. I said it before and I will say it again, I have never seen so many openly, and proud of it, prejudiced people in my life.

Maybe we should be glad of it. At least we know, now, that we are living with a lot more hatred than we imagined. I guess the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

You, and others would benefit from living with a minority family for a week.

See, I do live in a minority family with minority kids and a minority husband. For almost 30 years.

 

[JimMIA]

Hi, thanks. I mean tactics. Using this case in Minnesota as an example, driver said he was carrying and had a permit. What tactics are the police trained to use to ensure the driver doesn't pull his/her weapon?

First of all, different departments approach things differently. Some teach their officers to always have the motorist exit their vehicle and walk back to the space between the patrol vehicle and civilian vehicle. Others have the officer approach, being cautious and attentive, and taking a position of tactical advantage. Either of those approaches change if you have multiple officers. Carry state, non-carry state, permitted or not doesn't matter. The officer always has to assume there is a weapon in any vehicle because there is no telling what a bad guy or their car looks like.

If someone says they have a gun, I would want to know where the gun is. If it is on their person, I would have them get out of the car in a safe manner and remove the gun for safety during the contact. If it was somewhere in the vehicle, I would have the driver exit the vehicle and talk to them outside.

Can't really give you much more than that because there are so many possible scenarios. But the basic thing is officer safety first -- and most of all that involves the officer keeping their wits about them.

Encountering someone with a gun in the vehicle is not terribly unusual, nor does it need to be a super-dangerous situation if everyone behaves.

 

[roseaster]

See, I do live in a minority family with minority kids and a minority husband. For almost 30 years.

Then you are a very fortunate person that you haven't been the victim of systemic and any other prejudice.

Yours certainly hasn't been my experience, or the experience of any other minorities I know.

 

[SaintsManiac]

Is killing a police officer classified as a hate crime?

In some states, yes.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

Then you are a very fortunate person that you haven't been the victim of systemic and any other prejudice.

Yours certainly hasn't been my experience, or the experience of any other minorities I know.

You are putting words in my mouth. I have said on this thread that racism exists. Of course I know that first hand, second hand and further.

My husband grew up in a large city in the projects amongst the poorest of the poor and the darkest of the dark. Please, you are seriously putting words into my mouth.

 

[JimMIA]

It is already a platform for hate. I said it before and I will say it again, I have never seen so many openly, and proud of it, prejudiced people in my life.

Maybe we should be glad of it. At least we know, now, that we are living with a lot more hatred than we imagined. I guess the devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

If anyone sees any actual examples of hate speech here, they should certainly report those posts to the moderators for appropriate action.

But disagreeing with what someone says, or having a different point of view, is not hate speech. It's discussion, and hopefully we all learn something from honest discussion.

Unfortunately, some feel that anyone who doesn't agree with their point of view is ignorant, biased, and hateful. That's just not true -- of anybody, on any side of this discussion, that I've seen.

 

[roseaster]

You are putting words in my mouth. I have said on this thread that racism exists. Of course I know that first hand, second hand and further.

My husband grew up in a large city in the projects amongst the poorest of the poor and the darkest of the dark. Please, you are seriously putting words into my mouth.

Then why can't some people, maybe you, IDK, but certainly not just you, admit that there is a problem with systemic racism within our law enforcement and criminal justice systems.

The police aren't always in the right simply because they are police, any more than they are in the wrong for the same reason.

People want to search for reasons why the police are always justified in shooting and killing minorities, even if it means vilifying the dead person or outwardly calling witnesses liars.

Philando Castille for example. How many people have tried to imply that his GF was lying or omitting certain facts. Just like everyone wants to offer the benefit of the doubt to the officer, why isn't the victim offered the same courtesy? Philando Castille was a crappy driver. He has been ticketed more than 30 times. There was never any indication that he was violent in any of his many interactions with the police. He was legally carrying a weapon. Yet, this time he ended up shot multiple times and dead. In front of his GF and 4 year old child. Something does not add up here.

Unless we open up and learn to accept and acknowledge the points of view of others than we cannot begin a dialect on eliminating this long standing problem in our country.

Saying that black lives matter doesn't mean that police lives don't matter. It isn't an either/or situation.
When people are saying, "This is my experience, this is how I feel as a result of my experience," we need to acknowledge them and try to understand what has brought them to this instead of telling them that their feelings are, as the title of this thread so eloquently stated, "crap."

 

[luvsJack]

I could even see taking dress into account, when it comes to areas with gang activity. I have no problem with the fact that my father is stopped more often because he chooses to advertise his affiliation with a criminal organization on his back (biker vest - colors and patches). It is when it is rooted entirely in factors over which people have no immediate control and assumptions about where certain types of people "belong" that it crosses a line, IMO.



But it isn't just inconvenience. Even if you set aside the psychological aspect, there are real consequences of "profiling" stops. Everything from receiving more tickets (something that is often done to justify the stop - ticket for a minor infraction that is routinely overlooked in most circumstances) to missing work time or even losing jobs because of delays on the commute. When I was 18-20, I lived and worked in Detroit. I missed one job interview and almost lost another job because of traffic stops that turned into searches because "the only reason a white girl would be in this neighborhood - one that was on my route from home to work - is to get drugs" (and yes, one officer said that in so many words). For someone who needs every dime of their hourly wage to make ends meet, that's more than an inconvenience. And what's worse, it not-so-subtly discourages profiled populations from going into those places where they don't belong - not a huge deal for a white girl in a low-income Detroit neighborhood, but a serious obstacle to a better future for minorities who are harassed for being in the suburbs where most of the jobs have gone.



Ferguson was about much, much more than just that one case, though. Look at the policing numbers there, the number of tickets written for crimes of poveryy (broken taillights, loud mufflers, etc), the number of residents with suspended licenses over unpaid fines, the rate of warrants for those same unpaid fines.... The rioting in Ferguson was about the overall relationship between the community and the police, a relationship that is common in poor communities all across the country thanks to political leadership that aims to "solve" poverty by fining it out of existence with so-called "broken windows" policing. And in that sense, law enforcement is victimized by our messed up national conversations about race and poverty as the black communities beaten down by these policies - they're forced into an adversarial relationship where they are viewed as the enemy, in existence to harass and write tickets rather than protect and serve.

And that is exactly the kind of profiling I was talking about. Not just based on race. But when I said gang bangers, you and a couple of others instantly took that to mean "black". Seems that even in a discussion words and meanings can be misunderstood. The instantaneous thought is that it must be racism when that is not the case. We all should be more careful about understanding what someone else is saying.

 

[Planogirl]

Moderator, is there anyway this thread can be closed? As a African American, I personally feel that this thread is a form of hate speech. BLM started as a hashtag to bring awareness to the unnecessary violence, pro-filing, and unfair due justice of the court system and became a platform or movement to demand due process of the law. Not all people who associate with the BLM are right and some are plain wrong, but it doesn't detract from the fact that racial profiling and unfair due process of African American by police officers and the justice system exists. Until you live 1 day in our lives, how could you make that judgement and say that this issue doesn't exists. This forum is one of the only places I have left to escape from the daily humdrum life. Please dont let this thread become a platform for hate.

You would deny the right to discuss this? How will people learn about how others feel if they don't get the chance to talk?

I see this a lot from both sides. Don't say this or talk about that because I don't like it. It's not how this country operates and unless the PTB of the DIS decide otherwise we should be free to discuss our feelings. At the very least you learn where people stand. Those who don't like it shouldn't open the thread. (Yes, I know. Easier said than done sometimes.)

 

[JimMIA]

Interesting story from Dallas in the Washington Post. It's about a woman who was at the protest with her teenage sons. An officer was shot right in front of her. As he fell, he told her, "Run. He has a gun." She ran a short distance and was hit in the leg by a bullet, shattering her tibia (largest bone in the lower leg).

As she fell, she tackled one of her sons and then crawled on top of him to protect him from bullets flying all around them. An officer jumped on top of her, another officer laid across their legs, another across their heads. To protect them. Read her story here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...b0d016-46e2-11e6-8dac-0c6e4accc5b1_story.html

 

[Gracie09]

I think we are both assuming.

I've read actual respect news sources. Reading through this article and skimming others in the site it is obvious the slant they put on their "news".

 

[JimMIA]

I see this a lot from both sides. Don't say this or talk about that because I don't like it.

You're right, and shutting down open, respectful discussion is a prescription for ignorance and prejudice.

This is one of the biggest issues on university campuses today. At those institutions which used to be bastions of free exchanges of ideas, if something is not 9000% politically correct, it gets shouted down -- or worse, banned by the university administration. In the larger arena of politics, discussion and logical argument have been replaced by sucker-punches and organized violence designed to silence ideas we don't agree with. And it's practiced by both sides.

People don't want to think. They just want to take selfies and listen to the sounds of their own voices.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Interesting story from Dallas in the Washington Post. It's about a woman who was at the protest with her teenage sons. An officer was shot right in front of her. As he fell, he told her, "Run. He has a gun." She ran a short distance and was hit in the leg by a bullet, shattering her tibia (largest bone in the lower leg).

As she fell, she tackled one of her sons and then crawled on top of him to protect him from bullets flying all around them. An officer jumped on top of her, another officer laid across their legs, another across their heads. To protect them. Read her story here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...b0d016-46e2-11e6-8dac-0c6e4accc5b1_story.html

Here is another:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ld-photographer-Dallas-shooting.html#comments

 

[plutotek]

Moderator, is there anyway this thread can be closed? As a African American, I personally feel that this thread is a form of hate speech. BLM started as a hashtag to bring awareness to the unnecessary violence, pro-filing, and unfair due justice of the court system and became a platform or movement to demand due process of the law. Not all people who associate with the BLM are right and some are plain wrong, but it doesn't detract from the fact that racial profiling and unfair due process of African American by police officers and the justice system exists. Until you live 1 day in our lives, how could you make that judgement and say that this issue doesn't exists. This forum is one of the only places I have left to escape from the daily humdrum life. Please dont let this thread become a platform for hate.

You sound like one of those college students who will go to a public forum and ask a question, then will rile up the crowd to the point that a response is unintelligible due to inconsiderate actions of the crowd. People have opinions and just because you don't want to hear them doesn't make them racist anymore than your statements.

 

[Chocolate Cake]

Moderator, is there anyway this thread can be closed? As a African American, I personally feel that this thread is a form of hate speech.

Really? Because I am reading different views and opinions.

I have read absolutely nothing hateful.

If this thread disturbs you to the point where you need it shut down, I think you need to re-evaluate why you are looking to be hurt by people discussing a subject. Hurt to the point that you are calling it "hate speech".

I think the term "hate speech" is very overused.