"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[mummabear]

When people raise money for cancer nobody gets pissed off and says #alldiseasesmatter. When people say #cancerstrong nobody says well you are discriminating against #multiplesclerosisstrong. Why is that? Saying there are OTHER problems has nothing to do with the problem being discussed, its completely irrelevant. There are "more important" issues than homelessness but does that mean we shouldn't address, acknowledge, and work on improving and solving that issue? My mom saves dogs, should I tell her that all animals need saving and its not fair for her to concentrate on dogs (specifically rottweilers in her case). Should I tell her stop talking about saving rotties, lets save cute little kittens because they need saving too? PP's are right, if you are saying #alllivesmatter you are part of the problem. YOU are being separatist. YOU are being divisionist. By pitting one issue against other ones. By citing one race against other ones. Black lives matter has NOTHING to do with other races. You are making it about that. Black lives matter has to do with addressing and acknowledging a problem THAT EXISTS and saying all lives matter is doing just the opposite. We all know that all lives matter. Duh. Add something valuable to the conversation... and its a conversation that needs to be had so stop trying to avoid/ignore by deflecting to other, non related issues. We focus on gay rights, women's rights, animal rights.... but god forbid we focus on a black mans right to live. After all... that would be racist right?

Except in the case of the black lives matter movement the problem they are claiming to exist (of widespread racist cops shooting unarmed black men with no provocation) has been shown not to exist.
And making this case is dangerous for both parties. It means that people are angry at the cops, it is spreading distrust in police which leads to people not following their directions. But it is the not following of police instructions that has often lead to these shootings.

If a police office pulls you over you don't run, it's really that simple.
Police are having to make split second decisions with very little information and the wrong decision can cost either them of the civilian their lives. Then we judge the cops based on being able to watch the videos frame by frame with all information at hand.
For their own safety we need to teach kids that when a police officer says stop that you stop, you don't run, you don't put your hand in your pocket etc

 

[TLSnell1981]

Just remember the scene last night. As the protesters were running for cover, the police were running towards where the bullets were coming from. The police were making sure that the people were out of danger by clearing the areas and getting the people out of the line of sight. Those Dallas Blue Lives were making sure that all lives matters.

Protecting those..who were demonstrating against LEO. Do you think, any hearts or minds were changed last night?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

So a group that makes up 63% of the population accounts for 50% of the fatal shootings and a group that makes up 12% of the population accounts for 26%. And you don't think that's a wee bit suspect.

Sense of proportion schmaportion.

You're obviously ignoring the much higher crime rate among African Americans. Something that clearly would account for this.

 

[cabanafrau]

How does #blacklivesmatter create an "inherent" us versus them mindset???? If you are saying Red is my favorite color does that mean you dislike all the other colors? YOU are making it as versus them mindset!!! YOU are doing that. Just curious, but who is the us versus them in your example? Blacks vs whites? Or blacks vs police? Or blacks vs the rich? EXACTLY. Its not blacks VERSUS anybody. It about blacks being treated the same as EVERYBODY. It is about all lives matter. They are begging for all lives to matter, black lives included. That is the entire point. You see black lives matter and want to read #ONLYblacklives matter, when really the movement is really saying #EVENblacklivesmatter. Would you make an argument that if somebody said even a hot dog is food that was unfair? Does that create an us vs them mindset versus all other food?

Precisely the problem with hanging the issue on a divisive slogan and creating a divide where there should not be one. If the intent is to succeed in correcting a problem, why would you not want to include everyone in the effort in solving the problem. Divisive language detracts, not contributes towards a solution. It is about everyone being treated the same, respected the same and upholding the same responsibilities, so why the divisive language? I feel the same about Blue Lives Matter, same as I did earlier in the thread. Fix the problem, not continue dividing people.

 

[Disn3yVision]

I say #factsmatter. Some key ones are in the post below. And many of the premises of BLM are directly contradicted by facts. That matters to me.

So basically you are saying there is no problem or issue that needs to be addressed and the facts support that. Got it.

 

[rickybobby]

Maybe but responding with blue lives matter doesn't accomplish that.
If you really think saying black lives matter only divides people by separation, doesn't blue lives matter do the same thing?
Shouldn't blue lives matter receive the same criticism for creating a separate?

Any person whose response to Blue Lives Matter is that ALL lives matter really don't get it...No argument will make them understand.
See? I can do this too.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

So basically you are saying there is no problem or issue that needs to be addressed and the facts support that. Got it.

Nope. That much of what BLM matter was founded on is not supported by facts. Look again at @mummabear's post.

That's not to say there is no problem here. BLM has not found the root of it. I don't believe they're looking.

 

[Disn3yVision]

Precisely the problem with hanging the issue on a divisive slogan and creating a divide where there should not be one. If the intent is to succeed in correcting a problem, why would you not want to include everyone in the effort in solving the problem. Divisive language detracts, not contributes towards a solution. It is about everyone being treated the same, respected the same and upholding the same responsibilities, so why the divisive language? I feel the same about Blue Lives Matter, same as I did earlier in the thread. Fix the problem, not continue dividing people.

Ummmm..... Yeah. Clearly everything I just said went over your head so I see there is no potential in having a constructive conversation here.

 

[cabanafrau]

The only ones complaining black lives matter creates an us vs them mindset already had the us vs them mindset long beforehand.





From the post you quoted. "According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black"

So a group that makes up 63% of the population accounts for 50% of the fatal shootings and a group that makes up 12% of the population accounts for 26%. And you don't think that's a wee bit suspect.

Sense of proportion schmaportion.

Wait, did you just tell me I have an us versus them mindset? Very rude and very incorrect, but thanks so much anyway.

 

[cabanafrau]

Ummmm..... Yeah. Clearly everything I just said went over your head so I see there is no potential in having a constructive conversation here.

Guess I'm not too bright. I'll have to work on that.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

When people raise money for cancer nobody gets pissed off and says #alldiseasesmatter. When people say #cancerstrong nobody says well you are discriminating against #multiplesclerosisstrong. Why is that? Saying there are OTHER problems has nothing to do with the problem being discussed, its completely irrelevant. There are "more important" issues than homelessness but does that mean we shouldn't address, acknowledge, and work on improving and solving that issue? My mom saves dogs, should I tell her that all animals need saving and its not fair for her to concentrate on dogs (specifically rottweilers in her case). Should I tell her stop talking about saving rotties, lets save cute little kittens because they need saving too? PP's are right, if you are saying #alllivesmatter you are part of the problem. YOU are being separatist. YOU are being divisionist. By pitting one issue against other ones. By citing one race against other ones. Black lives matter has NOTHING to do with other races. You are making it about that. Black lives matter has to do with addressing and acknowledging a problem THAT EXISTS and saying all lives matter is doing just the opposite. We all know that all lives matter. Duh. Add something valuable to the conversation... and its a conversation that needs to be had so stop trying to avoid/ignore by deflecting to other, non related issues. We focus on gay rights, women's rights, animal rights.... but god forbid we focus on a black mans right to live. After all... that would be racist right?

Here's where it goes off the rails. I read a very interesting article last week - wish I had the link. He very convincingly tied our major drop in homicides to President Clinton's plan to put 100,000 more cops on the street. Basically stating that if the goal is a reduction in dead, young, black men, a heavier police presence in black neighborhoods is the best bet. He wasn't advocating Gestapo tactics, but it was a sobering thought none the less.

Anyway, the big issue with BLM is (1) it focuses too much on blame and (2) it mostly gets the blame wrong. The focus should be on the solution. And better cop training IS a part of that, but it's a tiny part of it.

 

[Disn3yVision]

Nope. That much of what BLM matter was founded on is not supported by facts. Look again at @mummabear's post.

That's not to say there is no problem here. BLM has not found the root of it. I don't believe they're looking.

So the fact states that "cops killed NEARLY twice as many whites" as they do blacks, but doesn't mention that whites make up 9 times the population of blacks... So if things were equal they would be killed 9 times as often, right? Yet is is NOT EVEN twice as often. Or is that fact not convenient enough for you?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Here's where it goes off the rails. I read a very interesting article last week - wish I had the link. He very convincingly tied our major drop in homicides to President Clinton's plan to put 100,000 more cops on the street. Basically stating that if the goal is a reduction in dead, young, black men, a heavier police presence in black neighborhoods is the best bet. He wasn't advocating Gestapo tactics, but it was a sobering thought none the less.

Anyway, the big issue with BLM is (1) it focuses too much on blame and (2) it mostly gets the blame wrong. The focus should be on the solution. And better cop training IS a part of that, but it's a tiny part of it.

Yes. Things like ending stop and frisk and thus limiting more proactive policing will cost lives in the communities that BLM claims to want to protect. They get the blame wrong.

Eric Garner's life could have been saved with better training in deescalation techniques. Michael Brown's could not. They blur everything together -- equate every case. That's not helpful.

 

[Disn3yVision]

Here's where it goes off the rails. I read a very interesting article last week - wish I had the link. He very convincingly tied our major drop in homicides to President Clinton's plan to put 100,000 more cops on the street. Basically stating that if the goal is a reduction in dead, young, black men, a heavier police presence in black neighborhoods is the best bet. He wasn't advocating Gestapo tactics, but it was a sobering thought none the less.

Anyway, the big issue with BLM is (1) it focuses too much on blame and (2) it mostly gets the blame wrong. The focus should be on the solution. And better cop training IS a part of that, but it's a tiny part of it.

Got it... So a problem exists. They are just addressing it the wrong way so they shouldn't address it at all then. In our metaphor thats like saying I'm not against raising money for cancer, I'm against they WAY they are doing it. By making it seem like cancer is the biggest killer of all major disease.... even though it is. Thats wrong so they should stop raising money and awareness for cancer. Makes total sense. Its not okay to try to help if you are not perfect in your execution of positive plan. And you are wrong. iI focuses on getting the american people to see and acknowledge a problem exists... IT FOCUSES ON RAISING AWARENESS which is the fist step towards correcting it. But clearly you are still not ready to take that step. Like yours, all to often the response is, "i am tired of hearing about it." Which is basically the point of this thread.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Precisely the problem with hanging the issue on a divisive slogan and creating a divide where there should not be one. If the intent is to succeed in correcting a problem, why would you not want to include everyone in the effort in solving the problem. Divisive language detracts, not contributes towards a solution. It is about everyone being treated the same, respected the same and upholding the same responsibilities, so why the divisive language? I feel the same about Blue Lives Matter, same as I did earlier in the thread. Fix the problem, not continue dividing people.

I think the thing you are missing is black lives matter doesn't automatically create a divide. It only creates a divide if you go looking for one and why would you do that unless you don't want to address the issues?
Like the previous poster said, when someone says cancer sucks, nobody jumps to the conclusion they are saying other diseases don't suck.
Saying black lives matter didn't really create any divide. The response of blue lives matter or all lives matter did. Those responses were a way to dismiss the issues black lives matter were trying to bring attention to.
Saying black lives matter doesn't become a one against the other. The responses are what do that.
If I say "we need to cure cancer". It's just a statement with no division, no putting cancer above anything else, just a statement about the need to cure cancer.
If you respond with "we need to cure aids", you're making it one against the other. You would be creating a separation because there's no other reason to respond that way unless you are trying to deflect from the need to cure cancer, disagree but don't want to say it or feel aids is more important and should come first.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

So the fact states that "cops killed NEARLY twice as many whites as they do blacks, but doesn't mention that whites make up 9 times the population of blacks... So if things were equal they would be shot 9 times as often. Yet is is not even twice as often. Or is that fact not convenient enough for you?

Goodness. Again -- white crime rate is much lower. If you aren't committing crimes, you are obviously far, far less likely to somehow be shot by an officer. What is most relevant is percentage of those committing crimes.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I think the thing you are missing is black lives matter doesn't automatically create a divide.

I wholeheartedly disagree.

The movement itself excludes:

"Black Lives Matter activists are slamming the Nashville Public Library’s anti-discrimination policies as racist after they were banned from holding meetings that excluded white people."

http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/22/black-lives-matter-slams-public-librarys-racist-ba/

 

[sunshinehighway]

Any person whose response to Blue Lives Matter is that ALL lives matter really don't get it...No argument will make them understand.
See? I can do this too.

No. It doesn't really fit for several reasons. The biggest reason being people don't usually respond to blue lives matter by saying all lives matter. When they do they are called anti police.

 

[Disn3yVision]

You're obviously ignoring the much higher crime rate among African Americans. Something that clearly would account for this.

No.... black make up a way higher INCARCERATION rate. Not commit more crimes. THATS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE PROBLEM. Whites commit more crimes than blacks... THEY HAVE TO BY SHEER NUMBERS! There are 9 times as many white people in this country as black. But you are telling me blacks commit more crimes overall??? Whites commit just as many crimes by percentage as blacks as asians as indians as europeans as hispanics, etc. THEY JUST ARENT PUT IN JAIL AS MUCH!!!! but of course that is all being imagined and the system is completely perfect and fair and everybody is treated equally right? Is that you argument? People in 1592 committed just as many crimes as people in 1892 or 2002 regardless of where they are. No race is predisposed to crime. AND STOP MAKING THIS ABOUT BLACK VS WHITE!!!!

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Whites commit just as many crimes as blacks as asians as indians as europeans as hispanics, etc.

Just not accurate in this country at this time.

That does NOT suggest a predisposition to criminality (as YOU said) AT ALL. I think it's societal. And the root of the problem is in here -- not in BLM's "charter".