"Black Lives Matter" - it's stupid. Just cut the crap.....

[Gumbo4x4]

Got it... So a problem exists. They are just addressing it the wrong way so they shouldn't address it at all then. In our metaphor thats like saying I'm not against raising money for cancer, I'm against they WAY they are doing it. By making it seem like cancer is the biggest killer of all major disease.... even though it is. Thats wrong so they should stop raising money and awareness for cancer. Makes total sense. Its not okay to try to help if you are not perfect in your execution of positive plan. And you are wrong. iI focuses on getting the american people to see and acknowledge a problem exists... IT FOCUSES ON RAISING AWARENESS which is the fist step towards correcting it. But clearly you are still not ready to take that step. Like yours, all to often the response is, "i am tired of hearing about it." Which is basically the point of this thread.

I'm not saying ignore the problem because it's not the BIG problem. I'm not saying don't bring awareness. I'm saying, do it honestly & openly. When Michael Brown is your poster boy, NOBODY who isn't already in your camp is coming over to your side to help with your "problem". Most of the "victims" that have been named in these protests turned out to be justifiable shootings. That's a BAD track record. And when black cops are shooting black kids at a higher rate than are white cops, It seems your movement may in fact have misidentified the problem entirely. It's not racism, it's just plain police brutality.

 

[Disn3yVision]

Just not accurate in this country at this time.

That does NOT suggest a predisposition to criminality (as YOU said) AT ALL. I think it's societal. And the root of the problem is in here -- not in BLM's "charter".

Im curious... What state do you live in?

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

It's not racism, it's just plain police brutality.

Disagree with this part -- I think it's the high crime rate in the community that needs to be addressed, particularly since as you said, many of the BLM poster cases turned out to be justifiable shootings.

 

[mummabear]

No.... black make up a way higher INCARCERATION rate. Not commit more crimes. THATS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE PROBLEM. Whites commit more crimes than blacks... THEY HAVE TO BY SHEER NUMBERS! There are 9 times as many white people in this country as black. But you are telling me blacks commit more crimes overall??? Whites commit just as many crimes by percentage as blacks as asians as indians as europeans as hispanics, etc. THEY JUST ARENT PUT IN JAIL AS MUCH!!!! but of course that is all being imagined and the system is completely perfect and fair and everybody is treated equally right? Is that you argument? People in 1592 committed just as many crimes as people in 1892 or 2002 regardless of where they are. No race is predisposed to crime. AND STOP MAKING THIS ABOUT BLACK VS WHITE!!!!

Unfortunately that is not what the statics show.
Yes black men are disproportionately sent to prison for the same crimes and this clearly does need to be addressed.
As far as the actual committing of crimes:
MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

However one could question (I don't know the answer) whether the actually commit more crimes or are caught more often.

 

[Disn3yVision]

I'm not saying ignore the problem because it's not the BIG problem. I'm not saying don't bring awareness. I'm saying, do it honestly & openly. When Michael Brown is your poster boy, NOBODY who isn't already in your camp is coming over to your side to help with your "problem". Most of the "victims" that have been named in these protests turned out to be justifiable shootings. That's a BAD track record. And when black cops are shooting black kids at a higher rate than are white cops, It seems your movement may in fact have misidentified the problem entirely. It's not racism, it's just plain police brutality.

These are just a FEW of their "poster children." And yet absolutely not a single person was convicted for ANY wrongdoing in ANY of the instances. The system decided ALL of these people DESERVED to be killed. You are right. There is no problem. I don't even know why people are complaining, the system sure seems to be doing its job.

 

[Disn3yVision]

However one could question (I don't know the answer) whether the actually commit more crimes or are caught more often.

My entire point. You can't say whether people committed crimes if they weren't caught. All we know is blacks are caught and WAAAAAAAAY more often. And then , after they are caught more often, they are punished way more often. How convenient.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

I'm going to exit stage left.

I've shared my thoughts and taken in others'. Thanks in particular to @mummabear for the factual posts. All things I have come across over time, but very useful to see aggregated like this.

I honestly just need a break from all of this. Such a sad and frustration time.

to all...

 

[mummabear]

I'm not saying ignore the problem because it's not the BIG problem. I'm not saying don't bring awareness. I'm saying, do it honestly & openly. When Michael Brown is your poster boy, NOBODY who isn't already in your camp is coming over to your side to help with your "problem". Most of the "victims" that have been named in these protests turned out to be justifiable shootings. That's a BAD track record. And when black cops are shooting black kids at a higher rate than are white cops, It seems your movement may in fact have misidentified the problem entirely. It's not racism, it's just plain police brutality.

I counter that it's not police brutality it is lack of respect for police, in many of these case, had the civilians followed police instructions the officers wouldn't have felt threatened and had to resort to defensive action.

My entire point. You can't say whether people committed crimes if they weren't caught. All we know is blacks are caught and punished WAAAAAAAAY more often. How convenient.

We know they are punished more severely we don't know if they are caught more often or they commit more crimes.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

However one could question (I don't know the answer) whether the actually commit more crimes or are caught more often.

My entire point. You can't say whether people committed crimes if they weren't caught. All we know is blacks are caught and punished WAAAAAAAAY more often. How convenient.

Think Chicago. I don't think they just aren't catching all the white people shooting people daily. While %caught may have some impact, it's CLEARLY not all of it.

And with that, I am off as promised.

 

[Teresa Pitman]

Some of the comments here have shocked me. I was listening to the radio last night, and they had a guest on the show, a woman who is co-host of a TV news show so quite well known. She is also black, and she talked about how every single black man she knows has at some point been stopped by the police for "driving while black" - not really doing anything wrong, but they get pulled over by the police and questioned. And every time that happens there is a risk of something going wrong, because the man doesn't comply fast enough or the police officer is tired or makes a misjudgement. And another man called in to say that he is a successful black dentist, and when he lets his son drive his car he has to give him his business card so the police can call him when they (almost inevitably) pull the son over. Because it's a nice, expensive car, being driven by a young black man. It made an impression on me hearing them talk about their experiences.

 

[hopemax]

I don't know. I think many understand quite well and just want to play dumb about it because their real opinion sounds bad. It's really not that hard to understand the concept behind black lives matter. All the rest is just a debate about whether one agrees with the sentiments behind it or not. Of course people want to ignore the sentiments behind it for a variety of reasons so they just pretend to not understand or misunderstand it.

That's where I am. It doesn't matter what relationship people have with one another, at some level the other person wants to feel like they are 1. Acknowledged 2. Validated. Whether it's a customer service issue, "I want the business to acknowledge I received poor service through no fault of my own." Or a spouse wanting to feel like they are #1 and their needs are important the old, "if Mama aint happy, no one is." But whenever I see a disaffected group, either race, class, sex try to speak up for their position, there is so much "ripping their argument to shreds." It's always "they must have done something wrong," or "misinterpreted the situation" or "they're not a good person in general so their statements are untrustworty." It's not approaching the situation with a willingness to understand or re-evaluate one's preconceived ideas of when things happen and if the events are justified, or would be typical for all people.

Newt Gingrich said in response to the events:

"It is more dangerous, in that they are substantially more likely to end up in a situation where the police don't respect you and where you could easily get killed. And sometimes for whites it's difficult to appreciate how real that is and how it's an everyday danger,”

"It took me a long time, and a number of people talking to me through the years, to get a sense of this: If you are a normal, white American, the truth is you don't understand being black in America, and you instinctively underestimate the level of discrimination and the level of additional risk,"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...can-american-dallas-shooting-police/86868322/

If he's saying that, IMO, a lot more people need to be paying attention. Until there is a concerted effort by all parties to, in the short term, try to understand, acknowledge and validate where a particular disaffected group is coming from we're just going to repeat an ever escalating cycle of bad feelings by both sides. In the long term, "all X matter" is a noble goal. But in the short term sometimes one person, group or problem needs specific attention before you can move forward. I'm sure everyone has had situation where even though everyone is affected by the same thing, an individual person's needs have to be focused on first in order to contain and stabilize a situation.

 

[Disn3yVision]

Think Chicago. I don't think they just aren't catching all the white people shooting people daily. While %caught may have some impact, it's CLEARLY not all of it.

And with that, I am off as promised.

Crime isn't just about shooting... What about embezzlement. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Fraud. Rape. Child abuse. Spousal abuse. Are blacks in chicago committing the majority of those crimes too? Also whites are convicted 69 percent of violent crimes. Does that make whites more violent? I would argue no. And once again ITS NOT ABOUT BLACK VS WHITE. STOP TAKING IT THERE.

 

[Southernmiss]

Why are we as a society not able to solve these problems??? Too much, too many lives of all kinds lost.

My 4 kids have friends of all cultures. Ds 19 is as white and blonde as can be, but his best pals are Asian and black. I do worry when I know he's hanging out late with them more so than if they were all white.

Ds22 best friend from high school is half black half white. I am concerned when they are out together. That kids dad is a sargent on the police force, so maybe he would be recognized if stopped in our town.

Ds17 also has a variety of friends.

Dd14 best friend is Muslim. That brings other concerns.

But I am so glad they embrace all people.

I am also so glad we have LEOs who truly want to protect and serve all people. And pray for them to have the gifts needed to continue.
.

 

[King Schultz]

Except in the case of the black lives matter movement the problem they are claiming to exist (of widespread racist cops shooting unarmed black men with no provocation) has been shown not to exist.
And making this case is dangerous for both parties. It means that people are angry at the cops, it is spreading distrust in police which leads to people not following their directions. But it is the not following of police instructions that has often lead to these shootings.

If a police office pulls you over you don't run, it's really that simple.
Police are having to make split second decisions with very little information and the wrong decision can cost either them of the civilian their lives. Then we judge the cops based on being able to watch the videos frame by frame with all information at hand.
For their own safety we need to teach kids that when a police officer says stop that you stop, you don't run, you don't put your hand in your pocket etc

"Race remains the most volatile flash point in any accounting of police shootings. Although black men make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population, they account for 40 percent of the unarmed men shot to death by police this year, The Post’s database shows. In the majority of cases in which police shot and killed a person who had attacked someone with a weapon or brandished a gun, the person who was shot was white. But a hugely disproportionate number — 3 in 5 — of those killed after exhibiting less threatening behavior were black or Hispanic."

From the Washington Post story I linked above.

 

[manning]

"Save the Rainforest" is so stupid. What about the montane forests, or the alpine forests?

How about "Save All Forests"?

Anything else just perpetuates disparity and logging.

Now, onto the subject of cancer fundraisers.... Do these people not care about heart disease?

How about save the sun? Scientists say it is getting hotter.

 

[JimMIA]

These are just a FEW of their "poster children." And yet absolutely not a single person was convicted for ANY wrongdoing in ANY of the instances. The system decided ALL of these people DESERVED to be killed.

Sorry, but that's just silly. The lack of convictions simply means that either prosecutors determined there was no legitimate criminal case, or the case went to trial and the defendants were found NOT GUILTY. Not guilty does not mean "deserved to be killed," or anything like that. Not guilty means the charge against the defendant was not proven in court, with real evidence, beyond a reasonable doubt.

That standard of proof is central to our system of justice and one of our most important rights. It's not going to be relaxed for anyone's political agenda...hopefully.

 

[TLSnell1981]

These are just a FEW of their "poster children." And yet absolutely not a single person was convicted for ANY wrongdoing in ANY of the instances. The system decided ALL of these people DESERVED to be killed. You are right. There is no problem. I don't even know why people are complaining, the system sure seems to be doing its job.

View attachment 180398

The cases were tried and the defendants were found not guilty. They had their day in court. Just because you disagree with a verdict....doesn't mean it was wrong or unfair.

 

[Disn3yVision]

H

The cases were tried and the defendants were found not guilty. They had their day in court. Just because you disagree with a verdict....doesn't mean it was wrong or unfair.

Exactly. Because the system isn't even flawed in the least bit and is completely just and perfect and this just proves it. Just like I said.

There will never be any progress until we can at least admit that there is a problem. But there isn't, so what are we even talking about?

 

[mummabear]

Crime isn't just about shooting... What about embezzlement. Money laundering. Tax evasion. Fraud. Rape. Child abuse. Spousal abuse. Are blacks in chicago committing the majority of those crimes too? Also whites are convicted 69 percent of violent crimes. Does that make whites more violent? I would argue no. And once again ITS NOT ABOUT BLACK VS WHITE. STOP TAKING IT THERE.

Crime certainly isn't about simply shootings, however those committing tax evasion seemingly aren't normally armed and running from police when they are arrested. And that is the mitigating factor here, not colour but the actions taken before he shooting.
For example up thread was a link about a white 50something year old man who was fatially shot by police after running (first by car then foot) from the police after being tasered he went for his pocket which the officer decided he was reaching for a weapon and shot him. He wasn't shot because of the colour of his skin, or the colour of the officers skin. He was shot because he ran from the police, because the police didn't know he was running from them because he was driving without a license. He made poor choices which lead to his death. He didn't deserve to die for driving without a license, he didn't deserve to die for running from the police but the police office has no way of knowing, what they do know is that an office dies on duty every 3 days, the officers have to make split second decisions that can cost them their own lives if they don't react.
Simply if he had not run, he may have been fined, he'll he may have ended up in jail if his conditions were such but he wouldn't be dead and ultimately that was on him not the officer.

"Race remains the most volatile flash point in any accounting of police shootings. Although black men make up only 6 percent of the U.S. population, they account for 40 percent of the unarmed men shot to death by police this year, The Post’s database shows. In the majority of cases in which police shot and killed a person who had attacked someone with a weapon or brandished a gun, the person who was shot was white. But a hugely disproportionate number — 3 in 5 — of those killed after exhibiting less threatening behavior were black or Hispanic."

From the Washington Post story I linked above.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

From he article I have linked before.
They are shot more often because the interact with police more often.

 

[Unas]

OK..... but what can we DO to make it better? This is a very serious question and I want to be part of the solution, not the problem. How do I help?

I live in a rural, middle-class neighborhood and have had discussions with my black and ethnic friends. They don't live with the daily fear of being attacked because of their race when in our community. I know this is not the norm, tho. I see people as people.

So I'm asking a very serious question...... what do we do to help when we are not in the battle zones?

Search for "This is what white people can do to support black lives matter."