Birth certificate - no longer need certified copy/raised seal, right?

[squirk]

Who paid for her? Besides being denied boarding, whoever paid won't be getting their money back.

I will give you three guesses.

 

[tvguy]

Tongue in cheek, for semantics sake - who has their original birth certificate? Probably no one, as it was sent to the state when you were born. Nearly everyone just has a copy; probably the reasoning for using that term, not meaning photocopy.

We used to have those microfiche brown or greyish copies until they were deemed not sufficient to prove authenticity and the multicolor stamp with raised seal became the authentic ones.

We’d all do overselves a favor and get an official copy to keep in our files.

It would be sad to miss a vacation or port excursion due to lack of authenticity.

To get a US passport, you need:

“ U.S. birth certificate that meets the following requirements:

• Issued by the city, county, or state of birth
• Lists applicant’s full name, date of birth, and place of birth
• Lists parent(s)’ full names
• Has the signature of the city, county, or state registrar
• Has the date filed with registrar's office (must be within one year of birth)
• Has the seal of issuing authority”

Without meeting those requirements, there’s a long form to fill out.

I have my original birth certificate, as do both my adult children.

 

[Weedy]

Tongue in cheek, for semantics sake - who has their original birth certificate? Probably no one, as it was sent to the state when you were born. Nearly everyone just has a copy; probably the reasoning for using that term, not meaning photocopy.

We used to have those microfiche brown or greyish copies until they were deemed not sufficient to prove authenticity and the multicolor stamp with raised seal became the authentic ones.

We’d all do overselves a favor and get an official copy to keep in our files.

It would be sad to miss a vacation or port excursion due to lack of authenticity.

To get a US passport, you need:

“ U.S. birth certificate that meets the following requirements:

• Issued by the city, county, or state of birth
• Lists applicant’s full name, date of birth, and place of birth
• Lists parent(s)’ full names
• Has the signature of the city, county, or state registrar
• Has the date filed with registrar's office (must be within one year of birth)
• Has the seal of issuing authority”

Without meeting those requirements, there’s a long form to fill out.

My husband and I (both born in the late 50’s) both have our original birth certificates

 

[bumbershoot]

If it needs to be certified as official - either by raised seal, or stamp/signature of clerk - they really should be more specific.

They aren’t specific because it isn’t specific. And that means a plain old copy works.






Would I do this? No, I have a certified copy of my BC and my passport. But it’s right there in the legal wording.

Editing to add: the wording has been the same for 10 years now. All they had to do is add in one word, “certified,” and then it’s clear that certified is required. They haven’t, so that isn’t the requirement.

On the flip side of what you said at the end, some ports of call require a passport, even when DCL does not. As we saw a few months ago, Martinique now requires a passport to come ashore, even when DCL would allow you to sail with just the birth certificate.

I’m certain that going forward cruises will require a passport for itineraries that include that country. Or they’ll drop Martinique.

Well, to be honest, I don't know why UN-CERTIFIED copies of birth certificates even exist (they are known are as informational copies).

People use them for scrapbooking and finding ancestors. Or, in some states, for journalists to look into the records of famous people. Etc.

My government issued birth certificate from California is basically a screen print from an old deteriorating microfilm with a purple stamp, no raised imprint. They said if I needed another one, it may be too degraded, so it is in my safe deposit box. I do have a passport.

They’d make a copy and the registrar will put the CA deal on it to make it a certified copy. Or they’ll put it into a new form and certify it.

Nearly everyone just has a copy; probably the reasoning for using that term, not meaning photocopy.

Everyone who has a BC at home has a copy of the actual BC.

I have my original birth certificate, as do both my adult children.

My husband and I (both born in the late 50’s) both have our original birth certificates

You don’t. That’s ok record at the registrar’s. You have what might the the original certified copy of the info, but it’s still a copy of the info.

 

[Capt_BJ]

I chuckle at a lot of this discussion ..... what you are confused about is 'legal semantics'

When each of our kids were born we were asked how many copies of the BC we wanted. We got 4 ... each of these is an ORIGINAL ..... an original is issued from an originating source.

In the past an ORIGINAL was identified by a raised seal (each of our kids 4 has raised seal)

Today the raised seal thing is pretty much GONE but what matters is who ISSUED the BC. And therefore a photocopy of a BC from an ORIGINAL source can be accepted (my opinion)

A quick on line search will send you to the office of vital records for any state. There you find links where with a lil info you can USUALLY get a new ORIGINAL <legal> document like a BC (and AS ANY ORIGINALS as you are willing to pay for). I got a marriage certificate DW needed (we thought) for a new REAL-ID driver's lic in 3 days via one of these. BTW .... STATE said they needed all this stuff and when DW produced a passport she needed NOTHING else to get a REAL-ID DL.

 

[squirk]

Today the raised seal thing is pretty much GONE but what matters is who ISSUED the BC. And therefore a photocopy of a BC from an ORIGINAL source can be accepted (my opinion)

If we bring a photocopy of a BC from an original source to the port, and they don't accept it, can we say "But Capt. BJ from the DIS Boards is of the opinion that this should be acceptable"?

 

[Capt_BJ]

absolutely .......

see what it gets ya

on the other hand if you go to a site to get a new 'original' today, it is unlikely you'll get a raised seal .....

p.s. I said CAN .. not WILL ... the folks at the desks checking this stuff are NOT experts ..... I KNOW retired folks who do this job in Port Canaveral and they get 2 hours training .....

want a sure thing?

GET PASSPORTS

 

[squirk]

They aren’t specific because it isn’t specific. And that means a plain old copy works.

Would I do this? No, I have a certified copy of my BC and my passport. But it’s right there in the legal wording.

Editing to add: the wording has been the same for 10 years now. All they had to do is add in one word, “certified,” and then it’s clear that certified is required. They haven’t, so that isn’t the requirement.

I hear what you are saying, but by the same token, all they had to do was add the word "photo-," and it would be clear (arguably, clearer) that a photocopy you produced on your home scanner/printer is just fine, vs. a copy from your local county clerk/office of vital stats. Some of those offices offer non-certified BC copies for a lower fee.

I guess the reason we split hairs is because if you show up at the port with the wrong piece of paper, odds are high that you're pretty much ****ed. But you are right - just get the certified copy and make this purely an academic argument.

 

[squirk]

absolutely .......

see what it gets ya

on the other hand if you go to a site to get a new 'original' today, it is unlikely you'll get a raised seal .....

p.s. I said CAN .. not WILL ... the folks at the desks checking this stuff are NOT experts ..... I KNOW retired folks who do this job in Port Canaveral and they get 2 hours training .....

want a sure thing?

GET PASSPORTS

You are preaching to the choir, my friend. I told the person in question that a passport was strongly recommended, and they are dragging their heels. I have since given it up to Jesus.

 

[katmigordon]

Does this include the passport cards?

Right. I was just referring to CBP in my last post.

On the flip side of what you said at the end, some ports of call require a passport, even when DCL does not. As we saw a few months ago, Martinique now requires a passport to come ashore, even when DCL would allow you to sail with just the birth certificate.

 

[adamki]

Does this include the passport cards?

Passport cards are not valid for entry to Martinique. We were just there on the Wonder and the instructions provided for Martinique said that we had to use passport books to leave the ship at Martinique.

A Conde Nast Traveller article also lists the following:

Some Caribbean nations—including Guadeloupe, Martinique, Barbados, St. Barts, and St. Martin—do not accept the passport card for entry into their country, so should you be traveling there by ship, confirm with your cruise line ahead of time what documents you need.​

https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2016-04-21/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-us-passport-cards​

 

[katmigordon]

Where can I find out about:

• Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
• Mazatlán, Mexico
• Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

Passport cards are not valid for entry to Martinique. We were just there on the Wonder and the instructions provided for Martinique said that we had to use passport books to leave the ship at Martinique.

A Conde Nast Traveller article also lists the following:

Some Caribbean nations—including Guadeloupe, Martinique, Barbados, St. Barts, and St. Martin—do not accept the passport card for entry into their country, so should you be traveling there by ship, confirm with your cruise line ahead of time what documents you need.​

https://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2016-04-21/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-us-passport-cards​

 

[adamki]

Where can I find out about:

• Cabo San Lucas, Mexico
• Mazatlán, Mexico
• Puerto Vallarta, Mexico

The passport card is valid for land and sea ports of entry in Canada and Mexico. Remember, the passport card can't be used for border crossings when traveling by air so if there is an emergency on the ship or in Mexico you will not be able to use the passport card to fly home (you could drive back up to California, I suppose).

The State Department is not clear on their website except for saying "Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, Caribbean", but the card is supposed to be accepted by nations that are members of the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative:

Anguilla​

Antigua and Barbuda​

Aruba​

Bahamas​

Bermuda​

British Virgin Islands​

Canada​

Caribbean Netherlands​

Cayman Islands​

Costa Rica​

Curaçao​

Dominica​

Dominican Republic​

Grenada​

Jamaica​

Mexico​

Montserrat​

Saint Kitts and Nevis​

Saint Lucia​

Saint Vincent and the Grenadines​

Sint Maarten​

Turks and Caicos Islands​

 

[Numtini]

Does this include the passport cards?

In virtually every way related to a cruise, a passport card is no different than using a birth certificate. In terms of Martinique, which is the only destination I know of that's requiring a passport to get off the boat when it's not required by the cruise lines, DIsney is changing the itinerary to stop at St. Lucia.

 

[starry_solo]

@squirk : has the cruise happened? What happened?

 

[g_ppetto]

My husband and I (both born in the late 50’s) both have our original birth certificates

My wife and I decided to get passports several years ago for a cruise. We were born in the early 50's and our birth certificates were the ones our parents were given way back when. We went to the post office to take advantage of their passport day. We were told the birth certificates were not acceptable, because they were old. I replied that we were old... We had to get updated birth certificates. Here is a tip - Costco does passport photos for $5, much cheaper than USPS. Also, I realized I didn't like mine after we got home. Going back the next day I was ready to pay another $5, but they took another photo for free. Our local county office offers passport services and helped us get the passports once we had our documents together.

Another birth certificate story - I needed to visit the Social Security Administration a few years ago to get some records corrected. They refused to accept my birth certificate because my mother had written my time of birth on the document (3:12 am). Because someone had written on it, it was no longer a valid document. They had to contact my state capital to obtain a new, valid, document.

In the early 70's I was able to get a wallet size birth certificate with a raised seal. It is laminated but you can still see the raised seal. I should have used that one for my passport and the SSA... Would have been fun.

 

[squirk]

@squirk : has the cruise happened? What happened?

We don’t sail until next Friday, but the person in question now has both a state-issued picture ID and a certified b.c. with a raised seal. So I think I am fine.