Birth certificate - no longer need certified copy/raised seal, right?

[squirk]

Years ago, if you were using your birth certificate instead of a passport for a closed-loop cruise, DCL used to require a certified copy of the state-issued birth certificate which usually involved a raised seal. We always sailed with passports, so I never really paid attention to those rules very closely.

We have someone traveling with us who may be using her b.c. (yes, I know the passport is preferable for several reason). I just checked the DCL site, and it says they will accept gov't-issued photo ID + a copy of the birth certificate - which I interpret as a photocopy, and no raised seal is required. Is that accurate?

Please and thank you.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Years ago, if you were using your birth certificate instead of a passport for a closed-loop cruise, DCL used to require a certified copy of the state-issued birth certificate which usually involved a raised seal. We always sailed with passports, so I never really paid attention to those rules very closely.

We have someone traveling with us who may be using her b.c. (yes, I know the passport is preferable for several reason). I just checked the DCL site, and it says they will accept gov't-issued photo ID + a copy of the birth certificate - which I interpret as a photocopy, and no raised seal is required. Is that accurate?

Please and thank you.

An example of semantics. What's required is a official copy of the original birth certificate in most cases. What's not clear is whether they mean a photo copy of the birth certificate, or an official copy of the actual birth certificate (the one you get from your registrar, or wherever the birth certificate is filed). You will not have the actual birth certificate as that remains in the files. I know at least Carnival allows a photo copy of the birth certificate. Other cruiselines require the official copy of the birth certificate.

As a note, not all official copies of the birth certificate have a raised seal. In our county what makes it official is the signed statement by the registrar that the document is an official copy of a certificate on file.

 

[DWillowBay]

On our last cruise, San Diego - Cabo San Lucas, a copy (photocopy) of the official documents were not acceptable in terms of leaving the ship for excursions. Luckily, the actual documents were in our cabin in the safe. Whew! Crisis averted!

 

[squirk]

An example of semantics. What's required is a official copy of the original birth certificate in most cases. What's not clear is whether they mean a photo copy of the birth certificate, or an official copy of the actual birth certificate (the one you get from your registrar, or wherever the birth certificate is filed). You will not have the actual birth certificate as that remains in the files. I know at least Carnival allows a photo copy of the birth certificate. Other cruiselines require the official copy of the birth certificate.

As a note, not all official copies of the birth certificate have a raised seal. In our county what makes it official is the signed statement by the registrar that the document is an official copy of a certificate on file.

Thx. All the DCL site says is "Original or copy of their state-issued birth certificate." A photocopy would indeed be a "copy of your state-issued birth certificate." If it needs to be certified as official - either by raised seal, or stamp/signature of clerk - they really should be more specific.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Thx. All the DCL site says is "Original or copy of their state-issued birth certificate." A photocopy would indeed be a "copy of your state-issued birth certificate." If it needs to be certified as official - either by raised seal, or stamp/signature of clerk - they really should be more specific.

Much as I'm aware that the person answering the phone doesn't have all the answers, I'd suggest calling DCL and asking them. Maybe take it up to a supervisor.

 

[squirk]

Much as I'm aware that the person answering the phone doesn't have all the answers, I'd suggest calling DCL and asking them. Maybe take it up to a supervisor.

Thx. I think we will avoid all that, as well as the possible semantic disconnect, by just getting the certified copy in the first place. Done.

 

[spiders]

Much as I'm aware that the person answering the phone doesn't have all the answers, I'd suggest calling DCL and asking them. Maybe take it up to a supervisor.

Email...always best to have a paper trail.

 

[scgustafson]

Just realize, it is not only DCL's need that have to be met, but also the requirement of US Customs and Border Protection, which is a bit more specific in this case:
Does my birth certificate need to be a certified, original copy?
CBP recommends that, where possible, an original or a certified copy of your birth certificate be presented. However, under certain circumstances, e.g., if you have sent the original in for a passport application, a copy may be accepted.
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citizens/western-hemisphere-travel-initiative/faqs

 

[squirk]

Just realize, it is not only DCL's need that have to be met, but also the requirement of US Customs and Border Protection, which is a bit more specific in this case:
Does my birth certificate need to be a certified, original copy?
CBP recommends that, where possible, an original or a certified copy of your birth certificate be presented. However, under certain circumstances, e.g., if you have sent the original in for a passport application, a copy may be accepted.
https://www.cbp.gov/travel/us-citizens/western-hemisphere-travel-initiative/faqs

Thanks. I appreciate the link, but isn’t that text rather ambiguous as well?

The use of “recommends” suggests it’s not a hard-and-fast rule. If they wanted to require the certified copy, they could have just said “requires,” but they chose not to. So it‘s not required.

“Under certain circumstances” - which certain circumstances? The use of “e.g.” indicates that using a photocopy because your original was sent in for a passport application isn’t the only exception.

It sounds to me like the photocopy would probably (but not necessarily) be allowed. However, it might require more red tape and fiery hoops to jump through than if you had a certified copy.

Regardless, I’m going to moot all this and just have her get the certified.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

It sounds to me like the photocopy would probably (but not necessarily) be allowed. However, it might require more red tape and fiery hoops to jump through than if you had a certified copy.

I don't know that it applies to DCL, however, I'll just point out that cruise lines can (and do) have stricter requirements than the law sometimes. For example, there are cruise lines that require a passport on all cruises, even if they aren't required by the law (as for closed loop cruises).

 

[squirk]

I don't know that it applies to DCL, however, I'll just point out that cruise lines can (and do) have stricter requirements than the law sometimes. For example, there are cruise lines that require a passport on all cruises, even if they aren't required by the law (as for closed loop cruises).

Right. I was just referring to CBP in my last post.

On the flip side of what you said at the end, some ports of call require a passport, even when DCL does not. As we saw a few months ago, Martinique now requires a passport to come ashore, even when DCL would allow you to sail with just the birth certificate.

 

[tvguy]

Thanks. I appreciate the link, but isn’t that text rather ambiguous as well?

The use of “recommends” suggests it’s not a hard-and-fast rule. If they wanted to require the certified copy, they could have just said “requires,” but they chose not to. So it‘s not required.

“Under certain circumstances” - which certain circumstances? The use of “e.g.” indicates that using a photocopy because your original was sent in for a passport application isn’t the only exception.

It sounds to me like the photocopy would probably (but not necessarily) be allowed. However, it might require more red tape and fiery hoops to jump through than if you had a certified copy.

Regardless, I’m going to moot all this and just have her get the certified.

Well, to be honest, I don't know why UN-CERTIFIED copies of birth certificates even exist (they are known are as informational copies). They are useless for anything that I am aware of. But I was a Little League Board member and we had to see a certified copy of a birth certificate when parents signed their kids up. And after the Danny Almante controversy at the Little League World Series in 2001, Little League required all players in All Star tournaments to have their certified copies of birth certificates with them at the games, and the Tournament Director had to verify each player was eligible before every game.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Well, to be honest, I don't know why UN-CERTIFIED copies of birth certificates even exist (they are known are as informational copies). They are useless for anything that I am aware of. But I was a Little League Board member and we had to see a certified copy of a birth certificate when parents signed their kids up. And after the Danny Almante controversy at the Little League World Series in 2001, Little League required all players in All Star tournaments to have their certified copies of birth certificates with them at the games, and the Tournament Director had to verify each player was eligible before every game.

I think what happened is, since you can't get the actual birth certificate from the state (county/city/whatever), they issue certified COPIES of the birth certificate. And people just started saying they had a "copy of their birth certificates". And, with the advent of photocopy machines, the confusion started.

 

[T & R]

I will never understand spending tens of thousands on airfare/cruise/vacation and leaving off the extra hundred bucks for a passport. I've had people try to explain it to me but it still doesn't make sense.

 

[Chuck S]

My government issued birth certificate from California is basically a screen print from an old deteriorating microfilm with a purple stamp, no raised imprint. They said if I needed another one, it may be too degraded, so it is in my safe deposit box. I do have a passport.

 

[tvguy]

My government issued birth certificate from California is basically a screen print from an old deteriorating microfilm with a purple stamp, no raised imprint. They said if I needed another one, it may be too degraded, so it is in my safe deposit box. I do have a passport.

You can get a new certified copy. They type the info from the files onto a new birth certificate on special paper that is much like the paper money is painted on. So it won't be an old degraded one.

 

[auntlynne]

Tongue in cheek, for semantics sake - who has their original birth certificate? Probably no one, as it was sent to the state when you were born. Nearly everyone just has a copy; probably the reasoning for using that term, not meaning photocopy.

We used to have those microfiche brown or greyish copies until they were deemed not sufficient to prove authenticity and the multicolor stamp with raised seal became the authentic ones.

We’d all do overselves a favor and get an official copy to keep in our files.

It would be sad to miss a vacation or port excursion due to lack of authenticity.

To get a US passport, you need:

“ U.S. birth certificate that meets the following requirements:

• Issued by the city, county, or state of birth
• Lists applicant’s full name, date of birth, and place of birth
• Lists parent(s)’ full names
• Has the signature of the city, county, or state registrar
• Has the date filed with registrar's office (must be within one year of birth)
• Has the seal of issuing authority”

Without meeting those requirements, there’s a long form to fill out.

 

[squirk]

I will never understand spending tens of thousands on airfare/cruise/vacation and leaving off the extra hundred bucks for a passport. I've had people try to explain it to me but it still doesn't make sense.

I agree 100%. All of us have passports, but the person traveling with us does not. She is dragging her heels in getting one, and I've made it very clear that if she does not have the required documentation/identification, it is all but guaranteed that she will be denied boarding.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

and I've made it very clear that if she does not have the required documentation/identification, it is all but guaranteed that she will be denied boarding.

Who paid for her? Besides being denied boarding, whoever paid won't be getting their money back.

 

[DaisyDogMI]

Did Disney intentionally omit the word "certified" to address the possibility that some people may not have a sealed copy due to the place / time that they were born? Both of my grandmothers didn't have certified copies of their birth certificates; one because hers was destroyed in a courtroom fire in the early / mid 1900s and one becuase her family never got around to registering her birth? I suppose in some parts of the world, a formal seal may not be customary, as it currently is in the US.