Billionaire Casino Boss Wages War Against Disney

[OldsDr]

HA! Casinos in Florida would hurt Universal more than Disney. I'd be willing to bet there are twice the number of casino customers at US than at WDW.

Unless of course US was able to get a casino liscence? Is the owner opreator of the hard rock hotel at US, the same as the Hard Rock Casino or is that a franchised name?

 

[Lewisc]

HA! Casinos in Florida would hurt Universal more than Disney. I'd be willing to bet there are twice the number of casino customers at US than at WDW.

Do you have any statistics? Surveys? Links to credible articles?

How many more guests visit Disney vs Universal in the course of a year. Double? Quadruple? Using your logic the typical Universal guest is 16 times more likely to patronize a casino.

If casinos would hurt Universal more then we'd be reading about Universal lobbying and not Disney.

The concern is if a mega casino would attract convention bookings at the expense of WDW.

Unless of course US was able to get a casino liscence? Is the owner opreator of the hard rock hotel at US, the same as the Hard Rock Casino or is that a franchised name?

The Hard Rock Hotel at Universal is jointly run by Lowes and the Seminole Indians. The Seminole Indian tribe was able to use their casino profits to buy the Hard Rock chain. I think the Hard Rock in Vegas was the only exception.

 

[Bob Roberts]

For all you Wal-Mart supporters on here, I would like all of you to educate yourself about our debt based economy that we now live in here in the United States.

Every dollar in your pocket is borrowed money from a private bank (I invite all of you to figure out who this private bank is) that has to be paid back with interest. Our government also borrows all of its money from this private bank at interest which is the primary cause of our uncontrollable Federal Debt. Out of the $19 trillion that we owe, most of it is compounded interest owed to this private bank, very little of it is principal. To pay for the interest on this debt we have to borrow even more money from this bank as well as countries like China.

The problem is we have to print more and more money to pay for this never ending debt circle, and it devalues the dollars we earn doing honest work. The more money floating around creates higher prices, and a higher cost of living, which are symptoms of inflation.

Since it costs so much for an American to have a decent standard of living due to all of the rampant inflation, the manufacturers and producers can no longer afford to pay the average Americans wages. That is why we no longer have an economy based on productivity, it is all based on debt. Then companies like Wal Mart take advantage of this situation by selling cheap foreign products that make Americans think they are getting a great bang for their devalued buck. When you purchase these products it kills our economy even more. Phewwwww glad I got that all settled.

 

[rrali33tt]

OK back to the OP topic.

I am not opposed to there being a las vegas style casino built in Miami. I am opposed to one being built in Orlando. Orlando to me is a family destination. In my single days I went to Vegas and Southbeach on numerous occasions. I am now getting married and about to start a family. All the shenanigans that come along with casinos and nightclubs do not need to be in Orlando.


Yes, some convention revenue will probable be lost by Disney and that is the real reason why they are against it. But as to their main argument, I don't necessarily see Florida as a "family vacation state". Go party in Key West or Southbeach and tell me how family oriented that is. If casinos were built there I don't think Orlando tourism would decline at all because you are looking at a different demographic of people who will go to vegas style casinos vs. Disney and Universal.

I also have attended one of these large conferences. It was in Orlando but at the Ritz and they hosted an event at Uninversal ( at wwohp). This company alternates between Orlando and Miami in general to give variety to the attendees. I don't know if that is common practice for most corporations, but if so, then Disney would only see a slight decline if one vegas style casino opens in Miami.

 

[Borishack]

Ok.........so those folks working in retail should just agree to work with no beanies and minimum wage so others with a college degree can feel better?

No, I am saying raising the wages of low skill workers doing simple jobs to the same levels of those who put in the effort to educate and improve themselves so they can do more complex ones is an immediate recipe for disaster. That would be a world where you immediately lower the incentive for a large segment of the population to improve themselves and develop skills.

How about the college degree folks work for better wages as well?

What you are basically saying is give everyone a big raise. The outcome of that would be to simply inflate the existing social stratification. Everyone would make more, but everything would cost more, so the same class warfare/"living wage" crap would continue.

 

[Borishack]

HA! Casinos in Florida would hurt Universal more than Disney. I'd be willing to bet there are twice the number of casino customers at US than at WDW.

There's a lot of simplistic, immature Universal bashing on this site, but only a little of it even approaches the level of the above.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

No, I am saying raising the wages of low skill workers doing simple jobs to the same levels of those who put in the effort to educate and improve themselves so they can do more complex ones is an immediate recipe for disaster. That would be a world where you immediately lower the incentive for a large segment of the population to improve themselves and develop skills.



Who ever said same levels, as the low pay scale raise so will the middle and upper level raise. Also as I pointed out the beanies the middle and upper scale people get are far above the lowest workers.

As I said before the higher educated workers get a lot more then just more pay.....they have all the perks and beanie's......





What you are basically saying is give everyone a big raise. The outcome of that would be to simply inflate the existing social stratification. Everyone would make more, but everything would cost more, so the same class warfare/"living wage" crap would continue.

so your still saying the lower paided (who are not necessarily low skilled) should be kept low just to keep prices down?? that surely doesn't some fair. If you followed the minium wages over the years, it has not even come close to keeping up with inflation.


AKK

 

[eadavis]

HA! Casinos in Florida would hurt Universal more than Disney. I'd be willing to bet there are twice the number of casino customers at US than at WDW.

That may be...

I wonder how much Busch Gardens feels the impact of the Seminole Hard Rock Casino. Currently that is the closest one to any of the Florida main attractions. Save for Victory Casino Cruises. Personally, I'd go to Tampa more if they allowed roulette, craps, and their slot payouts were more regulated.

 

[Teamubr]

I find it funny that Disney is using loss of convention business as their motivator. One of the largest convention centers in the country (Orange County Convention Center, 2.1 million sq ft) is just across the highway. The Gaylord Palms (also across the highway) has 400,000 sq ft of meeting space. This is over half what Disney reports for all of it's 5 convention areas.

I really don't think convention business has much to do with it.

I think this is purely an attempt to protect the discretionary (or credit card) income revenue of it's guests. Disney is concerned that having another viable option for the non-family guests is bad for Disney.

Disney is about making money. Anything they view as a threat to their revenue stream will be fought. It doesn't sit well when your only argument is 'I don't want them taking any of my potential money'.

I'll bet the lobbyists argument will be similar to the anti-casino lobbyists for Branson. Gambling doesn't fit with the "family values" promoted by the theme parks and is therefore bad for the entire state. Afterall, good wholesome families won't want to be near "those" kind of people that gamble. "It's not about the money... really. "

 

[bookgirl]

I do a few casino based trips a year (I don't gamble per say but my family and friends do and I usually end up on a couple of trips).

I don't think casinos would hurt. It would bring in more people to the area, which would help the local job market.

Families may or may not stay at a casino (just about every big casino I've stayed at had scads of kids/families) but they would go do the 'family' stuff during the day and then at night the adults would go down and hit the tables, or they'd switch off which adult had kid duty. I think you might pull in my people offering some other entertainment. (heck my folks would probably go to Orlando to gamble while I went to the theme parks, so we'd save on hotels and we'd all get to do what we want).

Conventions, well it seems like the more convention space there is the more conventions that come. I can't see it hurting.

I say build it and more will come. More is better for everyone.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I find it funny that Disney is using loss of convention business as their motivator. One of the largest convention centers in the country (Orange County Convention Center, 2.1 million sq ft) is just across the highway. The Gaylord Palms (also across the highway) has 400,000 sq ft of meeting space. This is over half what Disney reports for all of it's 5 convention areas.

Casinos also threaten Disney with a loss of business from convention-goers.

Many convention-goers add a visit to WDW while they're in Orlando for a convention at the Orange County Convention Center, Gaylord Palms, the former Peabody (now Hyatt), or other convention facility. In fact, many conventions include an evening at a Disney park as one of the scheduled events. Many convention-goers also bring spouses, partners, and families with them for the entire convention period or for an added weekend.

It's big business for Disney.

Las Vegas Sands Corporation and other casino companies have their eyes on those convention-goers (or at least on their wallets).

A convention-goer who goes to the "Sands Casino of Orlando," has an expense account dinner there, and spends the evening partaking of what the casino offers will not be spending that money at Disney.

Florida already has casino resorts, including the Seminole Hard Rock Tampa.

So far, there are no casinos in Orlando.

Disney wants to keep it that way -- and I don't blame them.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Ill pose the question...........

Just how many casinos can make money in the country?......in Florida?

According to from what I have seen in TV reports, the number of people who gamble in the USA is not increasing and there are plenty of casinos in the country that are not in good shape and others that have closed.

AK

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I don't think casinos would hurt. It would bring in more people to the area, which would help the local job market.

It's unlikely that having one, two, or three casinos in Orlando would make Orlando a true gambling resort destination, the way that Las Vegas is. There might be a small bump in Orlando tourism, but not much. After all, there are already casinos spread throughout much of America.

Rather, the casinos would siphon off spending from theme park tourists, convention-goers, and locals. That means they have less to spend at Disney.

 

[Viva Las Disney]

Before everyone in Florida starts seeing big Dollar signs.......think again......Gambling profits around the county are going down hill. More and more casinos are closing up shop.

The market is flooded. So between the flooded market and the limited number of people who gamble, the more casinos they add, the worse it will be.

Bottom line..............gambling is not likely to attract many tourists, they can go anywhere and gamble these days.

AKK

True to a certain extent, even here in Vegas gambling is becoming a smaller portion of tourist dollars spent each and every year. Clubs, dining, hotel rooms, shows, and conventions are driving our economy as much as, if not more than, gambling.

Having said that Sheldon Adelson is a brilliant businessman with a Midas touch and if he's pushing hard for gambling in Florida he sees something. He made his fortune on conventions and has massive convention centers at his properties in Vegas and in China so I think that's the real draw.

Personally as long as the casinos aren't visible from WDW I don't care, I definitely won't be going to them, living in Vegas has made casinos very BORING.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Ill pose the question...........

Just how many casinos can make money in the country?......in Florida?

According to from what I have seen in TV reports, the number of people who gamble in the USA is not increasing and there are plenty of casinos in the country that are not in good shape and others that have closed.

AK

It's amazing to see the huge casino complexes in places like Ankeny, Iowa.

Some casinos are doing very well. Some are struggling. Some have closed.

Orlando has enough tourists, convention-goers, and locals that a well-run casino would probably make a boatload of money.

And where would that money come from?

It would come largely at the expense of Disney and other companies that now make Orlando a travel destination.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

True to a certain extent, even here in Vegas gambling is becoming a smaller portion of tourist dollars spent each and every year. Clubs, dining, hotel rooms, shows, and conventions are driving our economy as much as, if not more than, gambling.

Having said that Sheldon Adelson is a brilliant businessman with a Midas touch and if he's pushing hard for gambling in Florida he sees something. He made his fortune on conventions and has massive convention centers at his properties in Vegas and in China so I think that's the real draw.

Personally as long as the casinos aren't visible from WDW I don't care, I definitely won't be going to them, living in Vegas has made casinos very BORING.

I do not know anything about Mr. Adelson, and mean no disrespect to him.

Here in CT, 10 years ago the Foxwoods and Mohican casinos were raking in the money......today, both are just trying to keep afloat. I have also read about many other casinos going under!


I did the required Las Vegas week visit a few years ago, it was fun, but we not really interesting in another visit!

AKK

 

[eadavis]

Let's not forget the international tourists. As many of us locals know, Latin Season is a few months away. Not to mention the other internationals. With Las Vegas, DLR is about a 6-7 hour car ride away. If a casino opened up shop in Central Florida, it'd be interesting to see how their travel patterns shifted...

 

[Planogirl]

HA! Casinos in Florida would hurt Universal more than Disney. I'd be willing to bet there are twice the number of casino customers at US than at WDW.

Just when I believed that I'd seen everything someone comes along to prove me wrong. Wow.

 

[Planogirl]

I think that Orlando already has a built-in market for any proposed casinos. Those people already there would be their target market not those who don't normally go to Orlando. I would imagine that people who just want to gamble will still go to Las Vegas and Reno and the like.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

Adelson Takes On Disney in Florida Casino Battle http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-05/disney-battles-casino-operators-over-florida-expansion.html

~Wow! This casino thing is really heating up. I responded to this issue a couple of years ago, hoping it would go away. While I hope Disney can continue to fight them off. I also have mixed feelings because I am not a Florida resident and it is their community -- so what they want should matter most, I suppose.

~The Las Vegas casinos had once attempted to coin themselves as a "family friendly" vacation destinations in the past, but it didn't fly in Vegas. However, it might work in Orlando!

~These casinos can easily transition into a family oriented theme offering everything from super affordable accommodations to exquisite high end amenities in a single property. That includes amazing pools, aquariums, animal habitats, museums, indoor/outdoor themepark type attractions, rollercoasters, spectacular buffets, fine dining, shopping -- not to mention top notch entertainment like Cirque de Soliel "O".

~Circus Circus has an 'indoor' amusement park.

~New York New York has a world class roller coaster.

~Treasure Island rocks a pirate theme.

~Stratosphere has some serious thrill rides up top.

~Mandalay Bay's pool looks like Typhoon Lagoon

~Mandalay Bay's aquarium.

~The Excalibur Hotel's Disneyland-esque castle.

~Wynn & Encore

~OMG....The Venetian

~This is the hallway to the elevator.

~The Gondala

~I bet they can offer some rooms cheaper than Disney's All Stars.

~It could also cripple Disney World's DVC business.

~Disney has every right to fight back -- they don't want 'this' in their backyard. They stand to lose conventions, weddings, international visitors, adults (21 & over) who wish to experience both fun and night life -- and of course families -- just by having a location near the beach would also be a huge draw for them.

~Also, Florida's large population of retirees and aging boomers are especially appealing to the casinos.

~Universal Studios will benefit from the casinos. As mentioned before -- there is a Hard Rock Hotel already onsite!

~Also, there is a push by some casino giants who are lobbying heavily for the legalization of online gambling -- if and when this happens, it could have devastating impact on the brick and mortar casino establishments -- so the urgent desire to break into Orlando may be fueled by what might be soon to come. We'll see.

~Oh yeah, I forgot... the Vegas casinos have a monorail, too.