Billionaire Casino Boss Wages War Against Disney

[Tonka's Skipper]

I said this several years ago...


There is no way that legalized gambling is not coming to Florida...

Are you kidding me? Every state is scrounging for pennies...and if my home puritanical commonwealth of Pennsylvania is running with it/ expanding...then nobody will last long.

Disney has a significant Florida lobby...but they don't have the muscle to stop this when the time comes...
What will they threaten? It's not like they give Florida billions annually over what they are required to...and there investment in the state and municipalities has declined over the years -by choice.

Inevitability.

Locked out,

Your points are well taken.

However as I originally questioned, there are casinos going out of business all over the country. The number of people who gamble is not raising. These failing casinos are in high tourist areas and/or easy to get to from big cities.

What makes you think new casinos in Florida will make it work?


AKK

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Locked out,

Your points are well taken.

However as I originally questioned, there are casinos going out of business all over the country. The number of people who gamble is not raising. These failing casinos are in high tourist areas and/or easy to get to from big cities.

What makes you think new casinos in Florida will make it work?

AKK

Because its Florida...

Your points are well taken. The problem with alot of casino developers is that their models suggest - incorrectly - that if you build something in a Podunk area... That somehow the "money will come".

Podunk is Podunk. Those that don't have money in the first place aren't getting it. A 100% universal fact among economists that is only disputed by major political candidates every 2-4-6 years. Tisnt so

So the "Vegas vacation" - esque "guess the number" casinos in depressed areas will fall. Like those $0.05 slot types in Gulfport, Mississippi

But...stereotypes are about 95% true...and seniors love gambling. There's a reason casinos are oxygen tank friendly...and the number of seniors is still rising dramatically with the baby boom. If you've ever been to Vegas or AC...you don't have to look far.

Overall... The gambling industry may be over saturated. But Florida could very well be the exception...because natives will support it - not the tourists.

Just my take.

 

[Twin Dad]

Because its Florida...

Your points are well taken. The problem with alot of casino developers is that their models suggest - incorrectly - that if you build something in a Podunk area... That somehow the "money will come".

Podunk is Podunk. Those that don't have money in the first place aren't getting it. A 100% universal fact among economists that is only disputed by major political candidates every 2-4-6 years. Tisnt so

So the "Vegas vacation" - esque "guess the number" casinos in depressed areas will fall. Like those $0.05 slot types in Gulfport, Mississippi

But...stereotypes are about 95% true...and seniors love gambling. There's a reason casinos are oxygen tank friendly...and the number of seniors is still rising dramatically with the baby boom. If you've ever been to Vegas or AC...you don't have to look far.

Overall... The gambling industry may be over saturated. But Florida could very well be the exception...because natives will support it - not the tourists.

Just my take.

I was going to post that up here the casinos are struggling and reducing employees and table games. However you make a good point that with Florida's demographics they could probably pull off a couple of new casinos without hurting Disney too much. If they build one close to Orlando then it might be easier to talk DW into moving down there. She's in IT and I work in the gaming industry.

 

[peainapod]

Most of the time (not all...) casinos draw a different crowd. When I picture Orlando I think about kids/families. I do not think about casinos and the bars that go along with casinos.

IMO, I side with Disney on this one if they are wanting to build close to Disney. Now 30+ minutes away from Disney..I see no problem with.

 

[eadavis]

Most of the time (not all...) casinos draw a different crowd. When I picture Orlando I think about kids/families. I do not think about casinos and the bars that go along with casinos. IMO, I side with Disney on this one if they are wanting to build close to Disney. Now 30+ minutes away from Disney..I see no problem with.

With that, Daytona could be a good location. Currently, Nascar, Bike Week, and Spring Break are the major draws. It's at the cross of I-95/I-4 and near a decent sized airport and about an hour or so from the major attractions. You have Bethune-Cookman and Daytona State College for cheap part-time labor and a lot of vacant land.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Because its Florida...

Your points are well taken. The problem with alot of casino developers is that their models suggest - incorrectly - that if you build something in a Podunk area... That somehow the "money will come".

Podunk is Podunk. Those that don't have money in the first place aren't getting it. A 100% universal fact among economists that is only disputed by major political candidates every 2-4-6 years. Tisnt so

So the "Vegas vacation" - esque "guess the number" casinos in depressed areas will fall. Like those $0.05 slot types in Gulfport, Mississippi

But...stereotypes are about 95% true...and seniors love gambling. There's a reason casinos are oxygen tank friendly...and the number of seniors is still rising dramatically with the baby boom. If you've ever been to Vegas or AC...you don't have to look far.

Overall... The gambling industry may be over saturated. But Florida could very well be the exception...because natives will support it - not the tourists.

Just my take.

I think what may make you correct in the end is.....*SENIORS* and *LOCALS*

But time is tell.

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

Now I'm confused. Who is the SEU trying to scare? Answer: no one. They are instead trying (and it appears successfully, given some of the comments in this thread) to indoctrinate the gullible into thinking the answer to the fact people at the bottom of the education and initiative ladder are increasingly falling behind is large mandated increases in compensation.

Maybe scare the employers with a high starting figure?



And the path to that is motivating them to increase their knowledge, skills and initiative, not mandating that their worth has magically and instantly increased 100%.

Since the cost of high education these days?................You need to be middle class or higher.

Not mention the people have to work par time and need to live on that.

AKK

 

[old lady]

I hope he knows that Disney caters mostly to families and children who shouldn't even be allowed inside a casino much less be able to gamble. He is barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I hope he knows that Disney caters mostly to families and children who shouldn't even be allowed inside a casino much less be able to gamble. He is barking up the wrong tree.

As we've been discussing in this thread, Orlando is also a huge convention destination. The Orange County Convention Center (OCCC) in Orlando is the second largest convention center in the United States (after McCormick Place in Chicago). Many conventions include private events at Walt Disney World or Universal Orlando. In addition, many convention goers make time to visit the parks. Sheldon Adelson sent more than 100 lobbyists to Tallahassee because he wants that money to go to him, not to Disney or Universal.

Yes, Walt Disney World attracts families with children. It also attracts seniors, couples without children, groups of friends, and every other category of visitor you can think of. Even if the distribution of tourists is more heavily weighted toward families than at many other destinations, there are still plenty of potential casino customers. And even travelers with children will go to casinos if they want to.

There have been excellent points in this thread about how casinos in the middle of nowhere have not always lived up to their owners' expectations. But Orlando is not the middle of nowhere. It's an international tourist and convention destination, with the second largest number of hotel rooms in the country after Las Vegas, Nevada.

Sheldon Adelson is a smart businessman. He's not "barking up the wrong tree."

I have no doubt a well-run casino resort in Orlando would be successful. I also have no doubt that its revenue would come largely at the expense of Central Florida's existing world class attractions. People may not get on a plane to Orlando just to go to a casino, but many will go to a casino if they've traveled to Orlando for a convention or vacation.

Florida's legislators need to decide if it's really a good idea to hurt the industry that put Central Florida on the map -- the map of the world.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I hope he knows that Disney caters mostly to families and children who shouldn't even be allowed inside a casino much less be able to gamble. He is barking up the wrong tree.

With all due respect...I don't see it that way at all.
Disney has many things solely for adults...they just have backed off on "nightlife" per se

 

[superme80]

Maybe if this goes through it is the push Disney might need to bring back some of the more adult entertainment.

 

[beer dave]

Maybe if this goes through it is the push Disney might need to bring back some of the more adult entertainment.

Yeah-- they could have FPP roulette-- where you wager your three in hopes of winning more, but be careful, if you lose all of them you may have to play the resort upgrade black jack to get more. If luck is not your lady with these, you may be heading towards the park pass pachinko.

Kidding aside, I agree--

 

[Donut23]

Most of the time (not all...) casinos draw a different crowd. When I picture Orlando I think about kids/families. I do not think about casinos and the bars that go along with casinos.

IMO, I side with Disney on this one if they are wanting to build close to Disney. Now 30+ minutes away from Disney..I see no problem with.

It's the perfect marriage.

The gamblers can gamble the day away with spouse and kiddies spending the day with Mickey.

Successful casino operations always look for day trip packages for the families so everyone is happy.

Casino near WDW = no brainier. I bet Disney quietly puts together the day packages for them!

 

[arthropodtodd]

I have really enjoyed this thread, it has gambling and Walmart...what could be better?

First, to OP's actual topic. Disney does not want competition, and that is the bottom line here for them. More competition requires a business to make changes to their product and marketing of that product. In this case Disney has a convention product and family experience product that they want to protect. Less competition means Disney can charge a high cost without having to maintain a high quality of product. US is good for Disney. The casinos are doubtful to draw away from Disney and there is already a lot of convention competition if Orlando. Why just don't want more.

Now personally I would hope they wouldn't be placed in the Orlando area. Orlando has a tourist feel and a family feel. While casinos have changed to be more family friendly than in the past, they really do not fit the vibe of the area. I can see them along the coast and in Miami.

Second, not sure why all the Walmart bashing. I think people hear talking points about Walmart and fail to do the research themselves. A large part of Walmart's 1.3 million person workforce make above minimum wage. To think otherwise is to say that they hired 1.3 million morons. If the pay was so bad why would 1.3 million people work there? For those who do not make more than the minimum why does the company always get blamed? Maybe the employee is just not a good employee. We have a propensity to blame businesses and management and forget that there are lazy and bad employees out there. In my experience, both in food, retail, and the professional world, those who work hard move up and get raises; those who do not...don't.

Why does Walmart move into small towns and are they killing them? Well, they move into small towns because they do a lot of math and research because it isn't cheap to just build a new store, new distribution centers, and expand their shipping ability. (in fact have you seen that Walmart is leading the way to redesign trucks to reduce drag to reduce fuel costs, which will reduce product costs....that stupid evil company!) Many studies point out the small businesses that close as a result of Walmart moving to town, but they fail to go back and see that new businesses tend to fill in those old store fronts downtown, businesses that do not compete with Walmart directly. In fact in many of these towns, these other businesses flourish.

The bottom line is the Walmart or a Casino knows whether it will be worth their time to move in. They know what the local market needs and knows if it will be able to compete. If the local market is happy with what they have, guess what? They will go build elsewhere. Walmart is successful because people shop there. Whether you shop there or not, people give them business and therefore they will continue doing what they are doing rather successfully.

 

[eadavis]

I have really enjoyed this thread, it has gambling and Walmart...what could be better? First, to OP's actual topic. Disney does not want competition, and that is the bottom line here for them. More competition requires a business to make changes to their product and marketing of that product. In this case Disney has a convention product and family experience product that they want to protect. Less competition means Disney can charge a high cost without having to maintain a high quality of product. US is good for Disney. The casinos are doubtful to draw away from Disney and there is already a lot of convention competition if Orlando. Why just don't want more. Now personally I would hope they wouldn't be placed in the Orlando area. Orlando has a tourist feel and a family feel. While casinos have changed to be more family friendly than in the past, they really do not fit the vibe of the area. I can see them along the coast and in Miami. Second, not sure why all the Walmart bashing. I think people hear talking points about Walmart and fail to do the research themselves. A large part of Walmart's 1.3 million person workforce make above minimum wage. To think otherwise is to say that they hired 1.3 million morons. If the pay was so bad why would 1.3 million people work there? For those who do not make more than the minimum why does the company always get blamed? Maybe the employee is just not a good employee. We have a propensity to blame businesses and management and forget that there are lazy and bad employees out there. In my experience, both in food, retail, and the professional world, those who work hard move up and get raises; those who do not...don't. Why does Walmart move into small towns and are they killing them? Well, they move into small towns because they do a lot of math and research because it isn't cheap to just build a new store, new distribution centers, and expand their shipping ability. (in fact have you seen that Walmart is leading the way to redesign trucks to reduce drag to reduce fuel costs, which will reduce product costs....that stupid evil company!) Many studies point out the small businesses that close as a result of Walmart moving to town, but they fail to go back and see that new businesses tend to fill in those old store fronts downtown, businesses that do not compete with Walmart directly. In fact in many of these towns, these other businesses flourish. The bottom line is the Walmart or a Casino knows whether it will be worth their time to move in. They know what the local market needs and knows if it will be able to compete. If the local market is happy with what they have, guess what? They will go build elsewhere. Walmart is successful because people shop there. Whether you shop there or not, people give them business and therefore they will continue doing what they are doing rather successfully.

Well said!

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I have really enjoyed this thread, it has gambling and Walmart...what could be better?

First, to OP's actual topic. Disney does not want competition, and that is the bottom line here for them. More competition requires a business to make changes to their product and marketing of that product. In this case Disney has a convention product and family experience product that they want to protect. Less competition means Disney can charge a high cost without having to maintain a high quality of product. US is good for Disney. The casinos are doubtful to draw away from Disney and there is already a lot of convention competition if Orlando. Why just don't want more.

Now personally I would hope they wouldn't be placed in the Orlando area. Orlando has a tourist feel and a family feel. While casinos have changed to be more family friendly than in the past, they really do not fit the vibe of the area. I can see them along the coast and in Miami.

Second, not sure why all the Walmart bashing. I think people hear talking points about Walmart and fail to do the research themselves. A large part of Walmart's 1.3 million person workforce make above minimum wage. To think otherwise is to say that they hired 1.3 million morons. If the pay was so bad why would 1.3 million people work there? For those who do not make more than the minimum why does the company always get blamed? Maybe the employee is just not a good employee. We have a propensity to blame businesses and management and forget that there are lazy and bad employees out there. In my experience, both in food, retail, and the professional world, those who work hard move up and get raises; those who do not...don't.

Why does Walmart move into small towns and are they killing them? Well, they move into small towns because they do a lot of math and research because it isn't cheap to just build a new store, new distribution centers, and expand their shipping ability. (in fact have you seen that Walmart is leading the way to redesign trucks to reduce drag to reduce fuel costs, which will reduce product costs....that stupid evil company!) Many studies point out the small businesses that close as a result of Walmart moving to town, but they fail to go back and see that new businesses tend to fill in those old store fronts downtown, businesses that do not compete with Walmart directly. In fact in many of these towns, these other businesses flourish.

The bottom line is the Walmart or a Casino knows whether it will be worth their time to move in. They know what the local market needs and knows if it will be able to compete. If the local market is happy with what they have, guess what? They will go build elsewhere. Walmart is successful because people shop there. Whether you shop there or not, people give them business and therefore they will continue doing what they are doing rather successfully.

Still, in this day end age, believe there is a free market economy? How cute.

 

[TooExcitedCantSleep]

The big Las Vegas style casino like the Venetian can hurt Disney's business bad. It's not good for them......it is why Disney has to pay all of this money to the congressmen to fight against it. Casino's are popular for the loyalty programs.....they think nothing of comping a hotel room and food....which will hurt DVC sales and the resales. Ohhhh.... those grand buffets and restaurants will shut Disney dining down. Disney better try and win this fight.

 

[OldsDr]

The big Las Vegas style casino like the Venetian can hurt Disney's business bad. It's not good for them......it is why Disney has to pay all of this money to the congressmen to fight against it. Casino's are popular for the loyalty programs.....they think nothing of comping a hotel room and food....which will hurt DVC sales and the resales. Ohhhh.... those grand buffets and restaurants will shut Disney dining down. Disney better try and win this fight.

Maybe if it is like las vegas where the casinos are right next to each other in direct competition, but if it is anything like here in CT even though the casinos are very close to each other it takes a lot of money gambled to get comped rooms, and the food is not cheap. From what i have seen about Florida if they do allow more casinos they will limit the number, so there will be no direct casino to casino competetion limiting the free or exrtremely reduced food and lodging prices.

 

[arthropodtodd]

Still, in this day end age, believe there is a free market economy? How cute.

It isn't as free as it should be, but yes it is still there.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

It isn't as free as it should be, but yes it is still there.

Hey there Buddy...I have not seen you in a while.

Re Wally world:


1. Wal-Mart's goal is to shut down all small shops and other major discounts stores as possible and will then rape the public.

There will not be free enterprise at that point.

2. They have shut down many main St. USA and brought in minimum wage jobs and has destroyed many better paying jobs.

3. Few of those empty shops have reopened, until recently. The American Public is finial realizing the job they safe by buying American and locally may well indeed be their own.

4.Towns have successfully stopped Wal-mart from building in there towns/ areas.

5. In the last few years Wal-marts have actually shut down because locals have woken up and are not shopping there.

6. Workers are slowly unionizing or at least working together to improve employee jobs, pay, hours and benefits.

7. With Obmamacare shut down medical benefits to so many part timers, they are working 2 jobs, which in time will reverse and add full time. In the mean time sweat box stores like Wal-Marts are going to have problems getting workers.

Bottom Line, if we want to improve jobs in the US, we have to buy USA. There is plenty of Made in the USA on line and in the better stores if you look for the label.

AKK