Big government picks on the Scouts

[Pin Wizard]

Then check out the other bunch they suspect.

 

[inaminute]

What is it you don't understand about people being held responsible for their actions? In this case millions of dollars worth of damaged caused by negligence.

Just because the government can afford to absorb the damages doesn't mean they must or even should. Were an 11 year old child to burn down my house, you can bet I'd be suing his parents and demanding justice. Just because I can afford to rebuild doesn't mean that responsible party can get away with destroying my property.

In this case the property belongs to every citizen of the U.S. That money comes out of my taxes. I think the responsible party SHOULD pay.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Thank you very much, inaminute! I agree a zillion percent!

 

[Van Helsing]

Yeah pick on the Kids when they have no-one else to blame. Of course they should absorb the damages - aren't they absorbing the damages in Iraq.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Oh, give me a break! These were 11 to 14 year olds. My 11 year old knows not to "play with matches."

 

[Van Helsing]

My 11 year old knows not to "play with matches

Good for him and these kids might be the same

 

[mrsv98]

VH, you complain and complain about the US and the Gov. and yet, here they are trying to engender some responsibility and you berate them again and make the preposterous link to Iraq. Newsflash, not everything is tied to Iraq.

There is eveidently enough evidence for the Federal Gov and the Utah state government to proceed. Here is more information:
===========================================
Authorities say Scouts started the fire started inside or near the East Fork of the Bear River Boy Scout Camp, about 35 miles south of Evanston, Wyo. The fire blackened 14,200 acres of the Wasatch-Cache National Forest and caused an estimated $150,000 in damage within the Scout camp to 12 camping sites, a rifle range, climbing towers, some latrines and several thousand feet of water lines.

According to the court documents, Scout employees at the East Fork of the Bear Scout Reservation summer camp had been informed of fire restrictions that had been in place for at least a week.

The lawsuits claim the Scouts, who were there to earn wilderness survival merit badges, didn't comply with its own rules on adult supervision of overnight campouts.

Five Scouts from Boy Scout Troop 149, sponsored by the Peoa Ward of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, started the fire, the complaints state.

from http://kutv.com/topstories/local_story_181192303.html
=============================================

Utah law requires the people who start fires to pay for the cost of fighting them. State prosecutor Michael Johnson said the lawsuit is "the last resort" in defending taxpayers against getting stuck with the bill.

The Boy Scouts have not admitted responsibility for the fire. Rob Wallace, a BSA attorney, said Tuesday questions remain about how the fire started, and that it's possible people using all-terrain vehicles were to blame. The U.S. attorney's office says the Forest Service reported no ATVs were in the area at the time the fire started

from http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=55767
=============================================

And here is the most complete article I have read:

The Salt Lake Tribune report

==============================================

There are ridiculous amounts of money being spent all over this country, huge "pork" projects, I should know, I live in Illinois, and those have as much or more to do with the Federal and State budgets as the war. The Fed Gov and the State of Utah are trying to make the Scouts take responsibility and save the tax players from footing the bill for a fire that was entirely preventable. Clearly, the Scouts violated their own policies by allowing the boys to be unsupervised in an area where camp fires were not allowed. What really angers me is the lesson the boys are learning about personal responsibility.

 

[ginna74]

Where's her "documentation"?

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeek lol

yes it was my opinion just like everyone elses here what happened happened ... take my word or not... all I am saying is things are being affected by the war... believe it or not..... not saying we should have never gone to war but there are casualties in us going... and our financial business is one... I for one could have used that check lol
and as I said in the other post

so many things are being cut to support the war. I guess this is the price we pay? It will get better I know...

 

[Van Helsing]

mrsv98 thanks for your reply but as you and i have pointed out, the scouts say they never started it.

The Boy Scouts have not admitted responsibility for the fire. Rob Wallace, a BSA attorney, said Tuesday questions remain about how the fire started, and that it's possible people using all-terrain vehicles were to blame.

And as for ridiculous amounts of money being spent all over the U.S - at least its being spent in the U.S unlike the obscene $18.4 billion for Iraq.

 

[eeyore45]

My dh and I are scoutmasters, our 2 older boys are Eagle Scouts and are counselors at a WI Boy Scout camp.

Wilderness Survivor is a merit badge earned at camp, the boys spend a week learning how to survive in the wilderness, then to earn the merit badge they go 'rough' it some place in the camp. They dont have 'adults' per se, but a counselor is with them. At least at our camp, my 16 yr old was ONE of the counselors last year. There problem was the kids refusing to follow set guidelines - ie what to do with leftover food, the scouts thought it would be funny to dump it not far from their camp, needless to say my ds walkie talkied the 'adult' supervisor and he came and put an end to the sleep over... for safety reasons.

The Nat'l Scout office has guildelines for a "Leave No Trace" camping, it has become very important to my boys, and my troop... we feel that soon we will all be camping without fires, and without charcoal...

I can only imagine what those boys must feel like, the Mormons are very supportive of scouting, I'm sure there is always more to the story than we get in the news accounts, right now as written it is very sensationalism...

 

[mrsv98]

VH, curious that you should focus on this statement

"The Boy Scouts have not admitted responsibility for the fire. Rob Wallace, a BSA attorney, said Tuesday questions remain about how the fire started, and that it's possible people using all-terrain vehicles were to blame."

When it is fairly clear there is a large circumstantial case against the Scouts. No one else in the area, illegal camp fires and no adult supervision. There are plenty pf people in prison who don't admit responsibility, also.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck........

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by Van Helsing



So why pay ( $18.4 billion ) for rebuilding Iraq - how about rebuilding America - better schools - better housing - better hospitals - better transport....

Of the things you've listed, two are States responsibilities (schools and transport), the others are private.

None are Bush's job.

 

[jipsy]

We have a situation in a small town not to far from me.

The boy scouts own a large piece of property there - about 200 acres. Because they are considered non-profit, or something like that, they don't have to pay property taxes on it. Yet, they are logging the property for beacoup bucks.

The town is about to take them to court.

 

[charlie,nj]

Ha ha ha yet another great title….

Let me see…....an organization responsible for kids… leaves kids unattended …they start a fire that destroys thousands of acres of land..that also puts both them and hundreds of brave firefighters lives at risk…and you are saying what?... that the organization should NOT foot the bill…that’s a good one…ha ha ha


Thanks mrs98…

“Utah law requires the people who start fires to pay for the cost of fighting them. State prosecutor Michael Johnson said the lawsuit is "the last resort" in defending taxpayers against getting stuck with the bill.”


Oh and here are a few more interesting tidbits from The Salt Lake Tribune:

“At its height, the fire was fought by 1,100 firefighters from around the country.

After the fire, some state fire wardens told The Salt Lake Tribune that for years they have had problems with illegal campfires at the East Fork of the Bear camp, which operates on a lease of 563 acres of state land.

This year, the Boy Scouts apparently banned all fires at the camp, said Rick Wagner, state fire warden for Summit County.

"I went by there earlier in the season. They told us flat out that they weren't going to have any fires this year," said Wagner. "It was a self-imposed ban."

So far this year, Overby, who is charged with recovering federal costs for firefighting, has collected money for only one fire. Duane Hicks, a rancher, agreed to pay $34,000 for a fire that occurred in the spring of 2002 in western Tooele County.

Still in negotiations are the $4 million Mustang fire, started by a motorist's broken trailer at Flaming Gorge; the $750,000 Dynamite fire, started by an explosives company in Tooele County; and the $750,000 Price Canyon fire, apparently started by sparks from a train in Carbon County.”


Hey wait a minute I should have used the op’s idea… about a month ago my son was playing baseball and he broke a neighbor’s window…I paid to get it replaced…I should have refused.

 

[dmadman43]

So why pay ( $18.4 billion ) for rebuilding Iraq - how about rebuilding America - better schools - better housing - better hospitals - better transport....

Compare to other countries I've seen (the UK included), America doesn't need much rebuilding, by comarison. Not sure how it works in the UK, but who the hell wants to go to a govt school or live in govt housing? And what's your beef with transportation?

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by dmadman43
And what's your beef with transportation?

Probably that it's not "free". You know, like "free" healthcare.

 

[Van Helsing]

they start a fire that destroys thousands of acres of land

charlie,nj were you there as well now

The Boy Scouts have not admitted responsibility for the fire. Rob Wallace, a BSA attorney, said Tuesday questions remain about how the fire started