Best II exchanges? Dean?

[disney4me4ever]

Dean--

A while back you listed what you thought were the II exchanges that offered the best trade "value" as compared to DVC. The search function is not working; could you re-run that list? I want to make a copy of it and just slide it into my Member Guidebook in that section.

Thanks!
Nancy

 

[wdwstar]

i would like to keep a copy toooo

 

[Dean]

Remember that each person's situation is different. These are “even” exchange thoughts using DVC. There are maybe only 50 or so resorts I'd accept from the DVC list. The Marriott’s that are on the list should all be OK. The Royals in Cancun but not VCI. Westin on St. John, Royal Reef and Grand Caymanian on Grand Cayman. The Westin in HI once it’s added to the list. St. James Club and Franz Klammer Lodge in the mountains. Paradise Village and Ocho Cascades in Puerto Vallarta. A couple in Cabo. KCR maybe on the Big Island.

Remove the Hyatt in PR from the list as the adjacent hotel has closed. Nothing on St. Marteen/Martin. Club Intrawest for Canada as well as possibly the Fairmont options and maybe a couple of others. Maybe the Antigua option, I go back and forth on that one. Nothing in TN or SC outside the Marriott’s at HH. Of course the Four Seasons options. The Hyatt’s and Galleon in Key West but not the other choices there. I’d consider any of the Hyatt’s on the list that I’m aware of except for the one in PR. All of the Captiva/Sanibel options.

I’m not as familiar with the options outside the Western Hemisphere or in South America. I’ve added a couple of replies I’ve done over the past couple of years, there might be something in there useful. Overall, I’d recommend joining TUG so you can research each one for yourself. Just remember that what fits your situation is what you should do, not what I or anyone else says. My goal is to get members to realize that many of the choices do not have real value compared to alternatives. There are MANY other resorts I’d stay at and possibly trade my DVC for as long as I could get what I felt was an equitable trade. Maybe trade a smaller for a larger unit or 5 days for 7 or both. There are also other choices I’d consider trading DVC for that are in II and RCI. Direct trades are usually the best options anyway or smaller independent exchange companies. I hope this helps.

There are so many variables and nuances to what you are asking but I'll try. I'll warn you, this may be long. For top notch trades, direct exchanges are almost always the best option, even if it costs you more points. For easy trades, they are only the best option if you can trade up. By that I mean trade a studio for a 2 BR or 5 days (S-F in a 1 BR) or whatever variation you can work out.

First, DVC is very expensive for trading, you already know that. I think you're success depends on what you want, when and when you can go as well as being as flexible as you possibly can be and planning AT LEAST A YEAR IN ADVANCE. Remember that someone else must give up a week in order for a trade to happen. If there are 30 people in line for that week, you might be number 5. If someone else gets in the line, they might get in it ahead of you so that when 4 other weeks come down, you still may not get anything. Now DVC will have very good trade power but it's not the only place, remember there are top Marriott's, etc and a lot of other high demand places (at least part of the year) besides WDW. There's also a rule where owners at the same resort will have priority in many cases.

Now if you can go when others can't, you're way ahead of the game. Say you want to go to Aruba in Jan, tough trade but still likely to happen IF YOU ASK FOR THE RIGHT THINGS FAR ENOUGH IN ADVANCE. The caribbean is mostly studios and 1 BR so asking for a 2 BR will significantly hinder your chances. Late Spring, Summer and Fall are much easier to get in the Caribbean and MX, really most any warm climate including HI. Cancun on the other hand is mostly 2 BR but there are studios (really hotel units with no kitchen at all mostly).

How short notice can you travel, but you said you needed reasonable air fare also which doesn't work well usually with short term exchanges. Most exchanges come in at far less than a year, I'd say most are 4-6 months out, especially for the good ones during high seasons. You need to decide what variable you're willing to bank on and how flexible you can be. Sure with the DVC search first, you get a day or 2 to check on air fare, time off and the like but there are many trades you can just count on high air fare (like Aruba, Hi) though they will still be higher for some specials than others.

Decide what size unit you can live with and what size unit the location you want has. DVC won't let you search for a unit that's smaller than what X resort has. That means if you only need a studio but a certain resort only has 2 BR, they won't let you search for less than a 2 BR. On the other hand, if the resort has smaller units, you will frequently be offered a larger unit FOR AN ONGOING SEARCH but NOT for an instant match, must give up points for the same size unit for instant matches.

If you take a place like Caribbean an MX in summer, there are a ton of units deposited and many of the studios are almost the same as a 1 BR, just less privacy. Lets say you decided to go to Aruba in Summer. You decide the MINIMUM unit you can handle and when you wanted to go, then you call MS and see if they have anything in the computer at that time. If yes, and it works, check air fare and accept it if all falls into place. Lets assume you really prefer a 1 BR and nothing just sitting in II when you call. There are a ton of studio and 1 BR units deposited so you place an ongoing search for a studio but are hoping you get a 1 BR. You can try to tell MS that 4 will be going but I don't know if they'll allow that for a studio FOR EXCHANGES (I can explain this one if it's important). You start searching for air fare deals and find that anything less than $600 pp is a good deal (ouch but reality). You have FF miles that you can use but if you don't book at the 330 day window, you will be out of luck. In this scenario, I'd go ahead and book the air fare when you find the right deal, then change your request for an exchange to meet your dates. REMBEMBER TO BE SPECIFIC ABOUT WHEN YOU CAN AND CAN'T TRAVEL because to II, saying you want Sat really means you will accept Thursday to Sunday unless you absolutely state to them otherwise. Now you're locked in to dates so you start looking even harder for a direct exchange and go ahead and make backup rental options that you can cancel when the trade comes through, which in this scenario it will if you started a full year out or more. It's very possibly you'll get offered at 1 BR at places like Marriott, La Cabana or Playa Linda; all very nice resorts but only the Marriott is truly comparable to DVC. Actually at La Cabana it's very likely you'd get offered a 1 BR for a studio search as they have twice as many 1 BR units than studios.

As a comparison, Cancun has a lot of 2 BR units though some are lockoff's with just a hotel room and NO kitchen. In this scenario, I'd search for a 1 BR or even a 2 BR, expecially if they won't let you list the places that don't have a "studio" or 1 BR with a 1 BR search. You need to learn to evaluate the nuances and hidden information to resorts you are looking at. Places like Cliff's Club and Lawai Beach in HI where exchangers tend to get a raw deal because of unit assignements. The fact that all 5* resorts are not great and that there are many great options not on the DVC list and not even 5*, will play a role. You find out that you want the beach but X resort is across the road with a blocked view or that the beach is not very good. You get extra fees (DVC is one of the worst) or a resort is remote and you need a car. You need a 2 BR and x resorts only has a few.

I've found MS not very knowledgeable about exchanges in general and that's why I sought outside resources. I may never actually trade my DVC, I have other far less expensive options that give me far more choices. We haven't even talked about deposit first which is far more complicated and requires a more knowledgeable person, can be much less points and give you options. Last year I traded a Aruba 1 BR for a 2 BR in Cancun (II not DVC). This year I traded Aruba 1 BR for a 2 BR Mountain Loft in Gatlinburg during the 3 weeks of fall colours. My two weeks at Aruba cost me far less than DVC and give me many more trade optins with fees about half DVC. With buying the Paradise Village points, I'll likely sell one of my Aruba weeks, so if you're interested in getting into real timesharing, let me know.

With the search first options you can request up to 2 years out, you can ask for the moon and if it doesn't happen no big deal. You can also have more than one search going. Say you really only need a 1 BR but some of the resorts only have 2 BR units. Place 2 searches, one for the 2 BR (only the very top resorts and don't list resorts on your 1 BR list) and the other for 1 BR at the resorts that have that size. If the 2 BR comes up first, you can always decline and wait on the 1 BR if you feel you still have plenty of time.

Then there are the independent exchange companies like San Francisco exchange, Donita's, Trading Places, Platinum Interchange, DialanExchange (great for Europe and Australia). The first 4 are mostly for west Coast, MX, HI and Canada. Their stengths and weakness vary so you may want to talk them if you're thinking about using them. Donita's isn't much on requesting specific resort, just areas. SFX is very selective in what resorts they take but give out a bonus week many times that trades just like a regular deposit. Most of them will let you do search first as well.

Well, I'm going to shut up now, I'm sure I've left out a ton of informaiton so fire away with questions and I'll do what I can.

Since I own other Timeshares that trade with II and have extensively checked into the DVC/II trade option, I feel I can offer some help. There were several discussions a month or two ago about this but I fear they were lost with the new Server so I will try to be more complete. For those that have heard this before and for this being long, please forgive me.

First let me say that I do not feel that using DVC to trade with II is a reasonable option for most people. There are those that disagree for their own reasons and that is ok. There are those that have posted that they were very pleased with their exchanges. I see the exchange options of DVC being an appropriate alternative for (1) a very infrequent exchange option, once every 4-5 years, (2) the person that doesn't want to take the time or energy to explore alternatives and (3) possibly for the flexchange exchanges. The flexchange are less than 60 days where you can exchange usually for the off season and this is the only time you can expect to exchange for a different size unit than you deposit (i.e. studio for a 2 BR).

First let me list the specifics and problems with exchanging DVC as compared to exchanging most other Timeshares.
DVC is so expensive (both in upfront costs and yearly fees) making an even exchange very unlikely.
You must exchange for the size unit you are receiving. This can be a problem if you only need a 1 BR but the place you list only has 2 BR. Members should know that if you request a search and get an instant exchange, you must deposit the same size unit. Sometimes if you request a resort that has different size units and do an ongoing search, you will actually match a larger unit. The chances will vary with the resort. For example, LaCabana in Aruba is a large resort with around 100-120 deposits to II for any given week and has twice as many 1 BR units as studio's. In this case request a studio and the chances of getting a 1 BR are very high. About the only difference between the studio and 1 BR is the specific sleeping arrangements.
Almost every exchange is going to be a trade down. While there are some resorts out there I would consider an even exchange, there aren't many. There are even a handful where I'd consider the resort to be above DVC for various reasons but when you tie in the on Property for DVC, it's still an even exchange at best. Yes I know that many of the owners are HH, VB and that many of the deposits are from those areas, the exchanger is still giving up the ability to use his/her points on property.
DVC limits the exchanges to a select list and while they are Most (not all) of the II top resorts, there are other trades out there that might be beneficial for the right family in the right circumstances.
Most of the resorts and weeks that I would consider the most desirable are not likely to be available. Why you ask, because either there is an internal exchange priority (like Marriott) or the owners are not going to deposit with II thinking much like a DVC owner and not wanting to trade down. This is why a direct exchange is a great way to go.
No access to II directly excluding DVC members from the Getaway pool (purchasing extra off season weeks at a discount)

There are some advantages of exchanging with DVC and I wouldn't be fair if I didn't list those.
DVC should have high trade power
No II yearly membership fee and only $75 exchange fee
The ability to do request first (unusual for II).
The ability to search for up to 2 years out (unusual for II).
You've already paid for DVC, maybe you don't want to pay extra for something else.

There are some others consideration and options that I will list.
Many people that exchange DVC do so using the direct exchange method. They find someone who has what they want and come to an agreement.
One of the hidden secrets is doing a deposit first. Let say you have points that are going to expire, you could go ahead and do a deposit with II and then are later schedule a search. This would effectively extend the life of the points for 2 years. This method is also good to lock in the number of points a specific exchange is going to cost you. Lets say you want to go to Aruba or MX in the summer. Aruba and MX are low season during the summer even though the time is technically red time and there are a lot of studios. You could deposit say a Jan HH studio for 55 points and then institute a search for a studio with a pretty good chance you would even get a 1 BR. Sure the point would be gone with uncertainty about what you would get, but can be worth it for the right situation.
There are other Independent exchange companies out there that, in some cases, might give you access to other properties or areas. Many of these might give you a bonus week giving you the ability to get two weeks for the price of one (just two exchange fees). SFX comes to mind as the best alternative for this situation as they have top resorts and weeks and many times will give bonus weeks that are like having two regular weeks deposited. The fee for using the bonus week tends to be a little more ($199-299 I think) but if you're getting exactly what you want, I think that is reasonable for an extra week. I do know that they don't generally accept studio for Orlando because it is a family destination.

I hope I've been thorough and fair. Please feel free to let me know if you have other thoughts or ideas.

 

[Dean]

To emphasize! There are many other resorts that will provide you with a great vacation. Just realize if you trade DVC for them, you are likely not at all getting a good value in terms of dollars. There are actually few options on the DVC list I wouldn't trade for as long as it wasn't giving up full DVC points or similar. Think of it like trading cars for the week. If you had a Mercedes, would you trade it for a Chevy? Also remember the time of year/season you are getting. Don't trade DVC even for something that is off season even if it's red time in II, like the Caribbean or MX in summer.

 

[disney4me4ever]

Hi Dean~

Thanks for the excellent information. That is what I was looking for. Just a note to clarify: we did buy into DVC to stay primarily on property, but in an 'upgraded' room. The reason I asked for this list was basically to reaffirm your Caribbean property recommendations. I am also a member of TUG and find the property rankings alone worth the membership dues.

There are not many options that I would consider desireable on the DVC list for the caribbean, except Westin St. John. Probably how we will do our caribbean trips is to split the stay....stay 4 or 5 nights at BCV then fly to the carribbean for another 4 or 5 nights in a 5 star property (or better) at our own expense. Probably the only other exchange we would consider would be the Canadian Rockies.

Thanks for your excellent insight and analysis.
Nancy

 

[disney4me4ever]

Dean--One more question--sorry! I know I've seen you comment on the properties for Key West. Could you re-review?

Thanks,
Nancy

 

[chips]

Dean What Is a good property to purchase to trade? Marriott or some name we never would think of.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by disney4me4ever
Dean--One more question--sorry! I know I've seen you comment on the properties for Key West. Could you re-review?

Thanks,
Nancy

I think I hit it above but the Hyatt's and Galleon are the only one's I'd consider a "fair" trade and even then for on season only (weeks 51-18). There is a new Hyatt there that I'd expect to be addes to the list. I would not trade DVC for the Banyan, at least not straight up.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by chips
Dean What Is a good property to purchase to trade? Marriott or some name we never would think of.

Boy, that's a loaded question. The trouble is that what's best for you isn't the same as it is for the next person. In general I do like Marriott and would suggest something you will use at least part of the time. Variables include where yo live, what you like to do, when yo can travel, family size, vacation types and the like. The best value in Marriott overall is Harbour Pointe but there are some limitations there as well in that it will not consistently trade for the tip top properties during the absolute best times. It does have the lowest costs and fees for a 2 BR unit.

It's easy to get in a situation with Marriott much like with DVC where your costs and fees are too high and you're always trading down. I'd say spend 6 months researching the issue, reading TUG and searching for the perfect fit for you.

 

[chips]

I appreciate the response. I opened a membership with tug so I could see any recent sales of dvc. They had okw 1999 for 54-58 which corresponds to what you paid. However they didn't have anything recent.

"Real timeshare" is a completely different animal. It would take 6 months to get a handle on it.

I think If I get serious I would just buy Marriott where I wanted to go. It seems that would not be an irrational decision. I would work on getting the right price and property.

I think I'll check out your marriot link on your site.

 

[AEN]

Holy moly that is a lot to read. Do you have cliff notes for that?

 

[wvalx]

Originally posted by Dean:
> Remove the Hyatt in PR from the list as the adjacent hotel has closed.

Hi Dean,

Could explain this comment? I've never been there but am looking into HVC.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by wvalx
Originally posted by Dean:
> Remove the Hyatt in PR from the list as the adjacent hotel has closed.

Hi Dean,

Could explain this comment? I've never been there but am looking into HVC.

The hotel associated was sold sometime in the last year or two. It has recently closed. The other Hyatt hotel a few miles down the road has opened. Many of the amenities were dependent on the hotel and no longer available. At least if the info I've been provided is correct.

 

[dvc_john]

I was at this resort last December when everything was still open.
According to another board with a Hyatt thread, the adjacent Hyatt Cerromar beach hotel is closed, but the restaurant, casino, river pool, and golf courses are all open. And the shuttle between the Hyatt Dorado, Hyatt Cerromar, Golf course club house, and Hacienda del Mar is still running.
Two rumors are circulating: one is that it will reopen as a hotel sometime in the future. The other is that is will be converted to timeshare.
I don't personally know if there is any truth to any of this info however.

 

[sweetp267]

Dean, as always your info is second to none. I periodically check the II listings on the DVC site to see what there is in a particular area that my family might want to travel to. To me the listing seems to stay the same. If there are properties being added to the list, how do you know about them. I haven't seen any Hyatt properties on the list or some of the others you listed. Am i looking in the right place? Please direct me to the right spot.

Thanks again!

Jon T

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by sweetp267
Dean, as always your info is second to none. I periodically check the II listings on the DVC site to see what there is in a particular area that my family might want to travel to. To me the listing seems to stay the same. If there are properties being added to the list, how do you know about them. I haven't seen any Hyatt properties on the list or some of the others you listed. Am i looking in the right place? Please direct me to the right spot.

Thanks again!

Jon T

If my memory serves me, the Hyatt's that are on the list are PR, two in Key West, Nevada and CO. There's another in Key West, one in Bonita Springs, FL, another in CO, and oneSedona. I was also thinking there was a new one coming for CA but maybe that was just me (found it, Highland's Inn in Carmel). I'd expect all of these to be added at some point. They are all 5 star and in great places. None are in direct competition with DVC which is always a factor.

 

[Doug7856]

I have another question about trading into II. The brochure from Disney that came with the original video titled Own a piece of the magic. You'll love the neighbors. indicates that to trade into the World Passport Collection during high season for one bedroom is 160 points for 2003 and 2004 Vacation weeks. Yet the Member Guidebook I received with my contract states "FYI: The number of Vacation Points required for an Interval International exchange usually falls within the range of the Choice, Dream, and Magic Season for a one-bedroom or two-bedroom Vacation Home." How can the promotional literature indicate that high season is 160 points when the seasons cost between 194 and 243 for a one-bedroom? I have a call into my guide about the discrepancy.

Update 1:30

I spoke with my guide and she advised me that this was a change from the 2002-2003 membership guide. I also found the disclosure guide for II getaways that includes the new updated chart. I trade for 160 points is a lot better than a trade for 243 points!!! Has anyone had an experience trading using the new point chart?

Thanks!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Doug7856
I have another question about trading into II. The brochure from Disney that came with the original video titled Own a piece of the magic. You'll love the neighbors. indicates that to trade into the World Passport Collection during high season for one bedroom is 160 points for 2003 and 2004 Vacation weeks. Yet the Member Guidebook I received with my contract states "FYI: The number of Vacation Points required for an Interval International exchange usually falls within the range of the Choice, Dream, and Magic Season for a one-bedroom or two-bedroom Vacation Home." How can the promotional literature indicate that high season is 160 points when the seasons cost between 194 and 243 for a one-bedroom? I have a call into my guide about the discrepancy.

Update 1:30

I spoke with my guide and she advised me that this was a change from the 2002-2003 membership guide. I also found the disclosure guide for II getaways that includes the new updated chart. I trade for 160 points is a lot better than a trade for 243 points!!! Has anyone had an experience trading using the new point chart?

Thanks!

You've got your questions answered. With the change, the 1BR went down, the 2 BR stayed close to the same, the studio went up a lot and the 3 BR went up a lot as well. What it did do was let you know exactly how many points up front that it would cost where there were uncertainties under the old system. Personally I think the old way was much better but I understand that many are more comfortable with the new system.

 

[sweetp267]

Thanks Dean, but you didn't answer my other question, at least I think you didn't. Are all of those resorts you mention in your reply on the list on the website? I haven't visited lately, but if they aren't on the list, how do you know that they are part of DVC exchanges?

Thanks again

Jon T

 

[Doug7856]

Dean, thanks for sharing your knowledge of trades through II. It helped us determine what we wanted to do with DVC and how many points to purchase. Thanks for sharing!