Benefits not the same if purchase a resale...is this true?

[Chuck S]

I read it as three different guides as well. If it was one I would say someone has lost their mind but now you have three different guides with "similar" stories. It makes me think something is going on - but what exactly has yet to be determined.

Maybe it's the CMs saying..."Let's have some fun with the DIS!".

 

[JimMIA]

FWIW, I just called MS and spoke to an agent about depositing points in RCI. She said no problem.

I told her about the rumor here regarding points purchased resale and she said that was not true -- no restrictions based on where you purchased the points.

So I told her the rumor here also included DCL and ABD. She said not true again. She said the DCL situation was strictly a lack of availability, but no restrictions whatsoever on resale points if I wanted to book a cruise for 10/2011 or later, or ABD or RCI anytime.

Unless someone else reports different results, I'm going back to my original response to this rumor: The DVC timeshare salesman was LYING.

We're going to have to start using the term "Weasel Speak" because these DVC timeshare salesmen are really trying to earn it.

 

[dis-happy]

I told her about the rumor here regarding points purchased resale and she said that was not true -- no restrictions based on where you purchased the points.

Well, that certainly is the case RIGHT NOW. Could very well be Disney double-speak. Also, it's possible that speculation on this board could have caused a "reminder" to all MS agents not to talk about things that aren't official yet. DVC at Contemporary was nothing but an unsubstantiated rumor on the DIS with lots of MS/Guide denials until the day it was officially announced. Just food for thought.

 

[gkrykewy]

Unless someone else reports different results, I'm going back to my original response to this rumor: The DVC timeshare salesman was LYING.

We're going to have to start using the term "Weasel Speak" because these DVC timeshare salesmen are really trying to earn it.

Wow, this takes it to a new level for DVC imo - particularly since OP asked for a second guide and had it verified.

 

[AndriaRose]

The only DVC non-WDW option that DH & I have considered, and not rejected, is HHI (for some future "us 2 only" winter vacation). Nevertheless, this possibility is upsetting. Back before there was a low buy in I bought a 50 point BWV resale. I knew I could use it to buy addons in the exact increment I wanted at the exact resort I wanted for my "perfect" contract. Which went from being 60 points at AKV(in theory), to 60 at BLT(purchased), to 75 more at BLT (yeah, plans always change ).

I bought with confidence knowing I could springboard from my small resale, build what I wanted, then resell at a small, acceptable loss. The end goal being, having exactly what I wanted without having to pay MFs for the rest of my life on points I didn't need. (Made more sense for all the bother back when 160 was minimum buy in, and I was thinking EOY vacations). My intended resale date - January, after our upcoming vacation is over. 1st they lower buy in, now this rumor. So much for my confidence.

Ok, I also have to voice this pet peeve. Ignore the reality, legal and otherwise. Its just a peeve I have. Rant follows: These contracts ARE retail. I mean, how else did they come into existence? Why is it, they feel they must sell the same item over and over, them and only them? Can you see Walmart pitching a fit and trying to shut down all yard sales? "No, No! You have no right to resell those clothes, we own them, you MUST bring them back to the store so we can resell them".

Ok, I know, its not the same, but still. They did sell it, they did get their high dollar fee. Just let it go and move on already, jeesh. What a bunch of whiny babies

And if this is all about overloading the cruise system, why not ARP (advance reservation priority) for direct points? It could work like home resort advantage for non DVC options. Inside the DVC system your advance booking window is based on home resort, as always. Outside the DVC system, the advance booking window is based on purchase point. Let resale have the same options, just a few months later. I could live with that. But then, I only ever saw non-DVC options as a fall-back option anyway.

 

[JimMIA]

Well, that certainly is the case RIGHT NOW. Could very well be Disney double-speak. Also, it's possible that speculation on this board could have caused a "reminder" to all MS agents not to talk about things that aren't official yet. DVC at Contemporary was nothing but an unsubstantiated rumor on the DIS with lots of MS/Guide denials until the day it was officially announced. Just food for thought.

Sure...but the original info in this thread was that this "change" went into effect last Friday, at the same time as the cutoff of DCL availability. That much is obviously not true.

They could do something later, although I personally don't think this "plan" makes much business sense. There are a lot of other options for them to create something really worthwhile for direct purchasers without upsetting a large portion of their membership.

 

[medic318]

I just spoke with my guide about this. Explained to him I was thinking about buying some more points early next year, but the 2 recent changes concerned me. He said the resale rumor, was just that, a rumor. It is not true at this time. As far as the cruise issue, he gave me the email for the member satisfaction team to complain to.

 

[tjkraz]

Sure...but the original info in this thread was that this "change" went into effect last Friday, at the same time as the cutoff of DCL availability. That much is obviously not true.

For the sake of argument, we could assume that this rumored change went into effect with all resale contracts submitted to DVC after last Friday. If so, it would be weeks before those buyers would pass ROFR, close, and be entered into the system. We're talking October before Member Services would even SPEAK to the member to answer questions, much less make reservations.

That gives DVC a lot of time to inform MS of the changes and even modify the reservation systems.

I do agree that on some levels this sounds like sales bunk. But the timing in relation to the DCL moratorium (I mean, lack of availability) last Friday is very curious. Another possibility is that the Guide spoke out of turn in saying that the change was "effective immediately." This could be something set to be implemented for 2012 cruise bookings which should be announced any time now.

Either way, I'd feel better hearing something definitive from a source other than Member Services. The answer could simply be "not at this time" yet the idea is already in the pipeline.

 

[dis-happy]

Sure...but the original info in this thread was that this "change" went into effect last Friday, at the same time as the cutoff of DCL availability. That much is obviously not true.

They could do something later, although I personally don't think this "plan" makes much business sense. There are a lot of other options for them to create something really worthwhile for direct purchasers without upsetting a large portion of their membership.

Oh, I agree with you. But after reading some of that TUG thread re. the train wreck of changes to Marriott and resales a few weeks ago, even a rumor from a guide (and two and three) causes concern.

 

[dis-happy]

The purported meeting on Friday is also interesting to me. I was told by a chatty waitress that 40 top Disney executives were to have a meeting at Brown Derby last Friday. Wonder if that could have included talk of DVC changes???

 

[GrumpyPOTFH]

OK, I still do not understand why this would be bad for me.

If it happens the resale value goes down.

Since I do not plan on selling no big deal. I consider 8 years as a break even point, so if I sell after that no loss. Since I plan to stay at DVC only, and if I wanted to add on, it would cost me less through the resale market, a BIG win for me. If I go to sell those points, I would be close to what I paid for them, no loss to me. If DVC has ROFR they would be buying more back at a less price and then selling them for more making Disney more money and my stock in Disney would most likely go up, another win for me. I do not believe I am alone in this regards. So I do not see the big deal.

 

[JimMIA]

Either way, I'd feel better hearing something definitive from a source other than Member Services. The answer could simply be "not at this time" yet the idea is already in the pipeline.

Yeah, all that's true. Sometimes it's difficult to decide whether to believe someone who may not be in the loop or someone who may be lying.

My best argument AGAINST this change is still that it's really not much of an incentive. They could give free SuperFastpasses (for newbies, there is no such thing, just speculating) for five years, which would cost them nothing, would be a real benefit to the purchaser, and wouldn't tick anybody off.

AND...it wouldn't hurt anyone's resale value, which is another important DVC direct selling point -- "If you find you don't need your points any longer, you can sell them on the resale market. DVC points have high resale value."

That's a lot better selling point for them than "You can sell them on eBay for $1 plus closing costs!"

 

[disneymath]

You know, until now I've been kind ticked that my "guide" provided me with serious misinformation when I took the tour in mid-August. If not for him - I would have signed on the dotted line that trip - a mere week before the DCL issue and this potential resale issue. (My plan was always to buy direct - and our intent was to primary use our point at the DVC Resorts, so the impact of this recent redflafs would be minimal for me ... but still, it's nice to know about this kind of stuff ahead of time.)

The resale-distinction aspect only concerns me if, as a PP mentions, it would apply to "gifting or willing" our membership to family members - that seems unfair.

Also, maybe I'm seeing it wrong or missing something, but wouldn't the "bottom dropping out of the resale market" potentially be just what DVD wants? People who plan to stay just at the DVC resorts would likely jump at rock-bottom priced resales and then Disney can us ROFR to swoop in and regain the points at little cost to them and turn around at sell them at the current direct-pricepoint. (And, if resales are limited, people who want to buy in are going to look to Disney directly.) So yeah, it plays out in DVD's favour and isn't so great for people looking for a DVC deal ... but maybe (and here's when I'm showing I still have some naive faith in the Disney company) this would result in "less corners being cut" and "more attention paid to members".

 

[JimMIA]

Either way, I'd feel better hearing something definitive from a source other than Member Services.

If any DISers are at WDW right now, could you do us all a favor and ask a bus driver?

Thanks!

 

[dvc at last !]

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[CrazyDuck]

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[pilferk]

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It's an ongoing joke around these parts.

The WDW bus drivers are always passing on "nuggets" of information. The problem is that MOST (IMHO) of the time the "big nuggets" of information turn out to be just that....big nuggets. They are wrong so often that it's become a running joke around here.

So now, when ever anything slightly controversial (or hard to swallow) comes around...usually you'll see someone suggest that we all ask one of the bus drivers.

 

[mouseaider]

?

Disney Bus drivers have been known to start a lot of the rumors that get back to this and other boards.

 

[Starr W.]

One of the interesting things about timeshare salesmen: as soon as one of them finds a line that gets around some potential mark's objection, they tend to share that line with others on the sales staff to "help them out."

"Yeah, I had one with the hook all the way set, and was about to reel him in. He was really excited about cruising---that was what turned the corner---when he brought up resale. 'Well, you know, I've heard that soon you won't be able to use resale points for cruise bookings. That's not public yet, but it's coming.' Ten minutes later, I had the sale. You might want to try that if you run into another one of those resale nuts."

This one just has all the hallmarks of a sales-floor BS job. The "secret meeting" shtick is a dead giveaway.

I could be wrong---it wouldn't be the first time, and it won't be the last---but this one doesn't pass the sniff test.

Edited to add: I'll also bet you a mickeybar that several of the Guides read these boards. You can imagine that a Guide wouldn't mind forwarding along some FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt) with regards to resales.

I know my guide reads the boards, he told me.

FUD, didn't I see that term used frequently on the TUG Marriott board?

 

[Brian Noble]

FUD goes way way back. It's another TLA (Three Letter Acronym) of which computer scientists are so fond!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

AND...it wouldn't hurt anyone's resale value, which is another important DVC direct selling point -- "If you find you don't need your points any longer, you can sell them on the resale market. DVC points have high resale value."

That's a lot better selling point for them than "You can sell them on eBay for $1 plus closing costs!"

On balance, the marketplace seems to have settled on the idea that nuking resale value by devaluation is more valuable to the developer than propping up resale values to minimize the spread. I can't tell you why that is, but I can tell you that nearly every other timeshare developer known to man has chosen to devalue rather than prop.

I agree, it's a big sales negative, but it's worth remembering that most of these purchases are impulse buys of "vacation magic in a bottle", and so rationality is out the window anyway.

Edited: it's also the case that the spread between developer and resale pricing isn't what it once was, so the "high resale value" part is already becoming a little dubious, even without devaluation.

I'll also put my cards on the table. I hope DVC does attempt to devalue resales in some way that doesn't impact usage rights at DVC resorts---I'm not a seller, but I might be a buyer for the right price.